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Old 06-28-2013, 11:03 PM   #1
Claymra
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Location: Columbia, SC
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Default Next step- need help

Sorry in advance for the long thread. Here is some general info about me/my goals, followed by the main question I have and am seeking opinions on.

I currently have the following setup:

2002 wrx
Group-n tophats front
Stock 05 tophats rear
D-spec shocks
24mm FSB and 22 mm RSB with supporting rear endlinks (stock front endlinks)
RCE Yellows
Saggy butt shims
Camber bolts in front lower holes
MSI DSS kit for the lower control arms rear mounting point. (Not a true ALK but helps with dynamic camber I think)
17x8 OZ wheels with 245/40/17 Goodyear eagle asyms

With this setup I have tuned to be the following:

5.5 TFFS front and 5.75 TFFS rear
FSB set to soft ( 2 settings to choose from)
RSB set to hard (3 settings to choose from)
-2.5 camber front and -1.5 camber rear (achieved with camber bolts)

What I want out of my setup:
I'm looking for the best possible setup I can get with the addition af $500 to $1000. I am wanting to continue to tune my car for auto-x and run the SM division due to a turbo swap from when I was a boy racer

I like the power so I'm interested in keeping most of the car the same and continuing to tweak suspension to get the most I can out of the car.

I'm looking for a pretty killer auto-x setup but I also daily drive the car. I am hoping to transition the car out of DD status soon so comfort is not high on the priority list. I will however want a street compliant car always since its nice to just take it out for a drive.

The main thing I would like to change is to help the car achieve more front grip and eliminate as much under steer as I can. I want the car to rotate better in sharp turns,etc. Currently the car does pretty well but I know it can improve.

The options I am considering/ my main question:
First I plan to pick up some 17x9 +45 RPF1's and go with a 255/40/17 tire ( either federal 595 RSR, Dunlop ZII , or Hankook RS3...)

Option 1 would be to go with the HVT non raising camber plates in front and group-n rear tophats. I would try for -3.5 camber up front and keep the rear at -1.5 or -2. I would get some additional caster with this too. In addition I could pick up a 24mm rear bar for the rear and run different settings with that...

Option 2. Think could be going with ST coilovers. I have heard good things from TIC. I could also pair them with camber plates later or at the same time depending on $$ I would sell my current setup to help fund this.

My main question is would my current setup with added front camber plates still be an under dog to a true coilover set like the ST's?

My concern with ST's is the progressive rears not helping the car rotate.

Would I be better off continuing to throw parts at my relatively soft RCE yellow setup or to make the switch to ST (or better) coils?

If another good coilover comes to mind that would not set me back 3k+ i would be interested to know...

I know there are tons out there KW v3's come to mind. What out there has an option to chose your spring rates? I have looked into ground control coil sleeves but am not convinced- I have not seen a lot of support for them in the Subaru world...

I want relatively stiff spring rates and the ability to tune the car to help it rotate if needed for a tight layout on some auto-x courses in my region...

I know there are lots of options on how to do this and would like some opinions and guidance from those who know more than me.


Thanks for any info/pointers everyone.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:24 PM   #2
subydude
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Default

How much will it still be a DD and how much will it be a dedicated autox car? Spring rates in competitive cars start at 500ish lbs on street tires and tend to be higher on slicks. There are people who run softer and people who run 4 digit spring rates on these cars. You'll need to tune to what you like.

I'm going to be up front and tell you, it's not going to be competitive in SM for that much money. It might be competitive in the local street tire class, but if you ever go anywhere and face off against an SM car on slicks they will take your lunch money so fast it won't even be funny.

That being said, I'd suggest calling up Koni and getting a set of race valved yellows and then a ground control coilover kit to go on top. Put the Koni's inside your stock housings, cut down the spring seat for clearance and run the ground control setup. You have some good sway bars to start with. For spring rates on street tires I'd suggest 450-500 front and 550-600 rear. That will allow you to get rotation, but tune with the bars and tire pressure to control it. Worst case, you can swap springs front to rear to calm it down if you have trouble.

Run the Dunlop or Rival, -3 degrees of camber up front at minimum. The rear is tricky and should be setup for rotation. I'd suggest starting at -.5 of camber. Get camber plates and sell the group-n's to someone else. Better yet, make the camber plates so you can gain caster as well as camber

So on and so forth. It's really a long list for a decent local SM car. If you just want to run in tire class and win, do the 17x9's with some Dunlop ZII's and more front camber/less rear camber. That should net you a decent bit at the local level.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:42 PM   #3
Subydude81
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Location: NY, Middletown
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Default

I have ran the Koni's with Ground Control sleeves on my TSX and that was the best handling car I owned. I ran the D-specs on my impreza and wasn't impressed.

The ST is a good coilover but its gonna run you over a $1k.

Last edited by Subydude81; 06-30-2013 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 07-01-2013, 01:24 AM   #4
Uncle Scotty
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Default

hd cowl stays.....lower arm bar....one piece front strut tower bar, rear strut tower bar...sti lca's...id say rear subframe lock bolts, but the odds of getting them installed in a car that old is REAL iffy

a REAL 'sport' ALK---NOT the RACE one is a great idea

forget the rear tops....not much gain there

ya don't wanna go past -3 in front and with enough caster---think +5.5 - +6 in front ya will be at diminishing returns

and maybe just a LITTLE toe OUT in back.....beware that this MAY make the car unstable

and if ya make the car too tail happy it may bite ya in the ass and ball it up for ya
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:27 AM   #5
T-37
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Default

Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert.

The cowl stays, arm bar, and alk aren't legal in SM, otherwise I agree with US and subydude. (you can use stock '07 STi cowl stays which are an improvement over stock WRX ones)

The slight rear toe out made a huge improvement in rotation for me. I have mine set at about .07" out each side. Zero toe front. No abnormal tire wear yet.

I'm running the exact same camber settings as you 2.5f/1.5r with 255 RS3s. I have about 1/4" clearance to the strut, and not much clearance to the rear fenders, any less camber and the tires would be into the quarterpanel every time I turn. (I would add ride height but my ****ty coilovers' locking collars have seized after one winter )

As a point of reference I am using coilovers with Swift springs F-8k (~445lb) /R-6k (~335lb). I'm currently rethinking my setup though...the springrate isn't anywhere near high enough for the grip I'm getting out of the tires.

Another option you could consider are Feal Coilovers, they can tailor the dampers to your specific springrates. I'm sending my Stance Supersports to them to be rebuilt/upgraded this winter with something in the at least ~12kg/~10kg range, maybe much much more...I'm wanting to try Hoosiers.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:03 PM   #6
Uncle Scotty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-37 View Post
Disclaimer: I'm far from an expert.

The cowl stays, arm bar, and alk aren't legal in SM, otherwise I agree with US and subydude. (you can use stock '07 STi cowl stays which are an improvement over stock WRX ones)

The slight rear toe out made a huge improvement in rotation for me. I have mine set at about .07" out each side. Zero toe front. No abnormal tire wear yet.

I'm running the exact same camber settings as you 2.5f/1.5r with 255 RS3s. I have about 1/4" clearance to the strut, and not much clearance to the rear fenders, any less camber and the tires would be into the quarterpanel every time I turn. (I would add ride height but my ****ty coilovers' locking collars have seized after one winter )

As a point of reference I am using coilovers with Swift springs F-8k (~445lb) /R-6k (~335lb). I'm currently rethinking my setup though...the springrate isn't anywhere near high enough for the grip I'm getting out of the tires.

Another option you could consider are Feal Coilovers, they can tailor the dampers to your specific springrates. I'm sending my Stance Supersports to them to be rebuilt/upgraded this winter with something in the at least ~12kg/~10kg range, maybe much much more...I'm wanting to try Hoosiers.

**** the rules.....just **** all that
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:15 PM   #7
Squidz
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Default

Not exactly the best advice...

I thinkyou could certainly benefit from some more camber and higher spring rates. Sounds like you are getting a bit more grip than your setup can really handle.

Camber plates and a good set of coilovers will go a really long way in improvig an already good setup.
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