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Old 07-11-2013, 01:40 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by dorikin View Post

just wondering- for someone on the scopes such as yourself, has technology been a help or a hinderance in being more effective/efficient at keeping airplanes from trading paint?
Is this a real question? Do you think it's even remotely possible that the answer is that radar, lights, and GPS is a liability?
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:42 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by Asinine View Post
Is this a real question? Do you think it's even remotely possible that the answer is that radar, lights, and GPS is a liability?




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Old 07-11-2013, 01:47 PM   #603
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Maybe the pilot was texting
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:47 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semaj View Post
"the pilot flying reported that a flash of light occurred at 500 feet which temporarily blinded him"

How about, "I ****ed up, and I am very sorry."?

I don't buy that the temporary blindness at 500 feet caused pilot error, sorry.




The pilot did on his 5 hours of rest apparently.
When I was 16, I told my Mom that the sun glare in the rear view mirror caused me to sneeze, and step on the gas, and get a ticket for 86 in a 55.

Looking back, I should have just said "I learned to speed from you..." and been done with it.

I think she laughed so hard I didn't get in trouble.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:49 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by BigWrecKs View Post
This bothers me too. If that wrre the case, why didnt he immediately say "**** i cant see anymore. Take the controls!" Or simply abort the landing? 500ft is better than seawall.

To me, it is a bogus excuse.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erm016 View Post
When I was 16, I told my Mom that the sun glare in the rear view mirror caused me to sneeze, and step on the gas, and get a ticket for 86 in a 55.

I think she laughed so hard I didn't get in trouble.
Not quite the same as a plane crash I'm afraid.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:51 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by Vectors2Final View Post
Some rule changes for you pilot folk.

Those rules came out after the Buffalo Colgan crash and are very much needed. I'm getting my ATP this summer so once I'm done with military flying, I'm all set for the airlines.

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Originally Posted by shaw169 View Post
Clicking automation, aka autothrottles, and then never watching your speed again is insane. Every pilot should be scanning airspeed all the time, especially on landing.
Agreed. However, company policy (at Delta for example) is that with autothrottles engaged, you keep your hand on the power levers to make sure the system is responding and the levers are moving. There was a crash in Europe a while ago where they engaged autothrottles on climbout, one of the throttles jammed and the other went to full power to keep the airspeed up. The pilots had no idea what happened since neither of them were paying attention to the actually power levers and they departed the airplane and killed everyone.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:53 PM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markman View Post
Maybe the pilot was texting
hey u bsy?

lol no jst flyin



Edited because Korean:

U BSY 안녕하세요?

더 JST 흐른다 LOL 없습니다
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:54 PM   #608
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The pilots had no idea what happened since neither of them were paying attention to the actually power levers and they departed the airplane and killed everyone.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:03 PM   #609
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hey u bsy?

lol no jst flyin



Edited because Korean:

U BSY 안녕하세요?

더 JST 흐른다 LOL 없습니다
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:06 PM   #610
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The pilots had no idea what happened since neither of them were paying attention to the actually power levers and they departed the airplane and killed everyone.
Acually is Dolan.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:06 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by Thumper23 View Post
Agreed. However, company policy (at Delta for example) is that with autothrottles engaged, you keep your hand on the power levers to make sure the system is responding and the levers are moving. There was a crash in Europe a while ago where they engaged autothrottles on climbout, one of the throttles jammed and the other went to full power to keep the airspeed up. The pilots had no idea what happened since neither of them were paying attention to the actually power levers and they departed the airplane and killed everyone.
There was a similar Turkish Airlines 738 crash a few years ago as well. The radio altimeter malfunctioned on approach at about 2000 AGL and the autothrottle fully retarded the throttles as the RA erroneously indicated the aircraft was only several feet above the ground. The crew didn't realize this had happened until they stalled and by then they didn't have enough altitude to recover.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:09 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by OriginalSin View Post
Go watch the Children of Magenta youtube video.

When you engage autothrottles, you dial in a speed for the system to maintain. On climbout, they set the speed and engaged the autothrottles. Only one of the levers moved and continued to move until it was at max power to keep the aircraft on speed. This differential thrust induced a huge rolling moment that they couldn't counteract with the ailerons. The aircraft departed controlled flight and boom.

If one of them had kept their hands on the throttles, they would have noticed one of the levers not responding and would have disengaged autothrottles. Hell, if one of them ever took the time to look at the throttle quadrant and look at the engine instruments, they would've seen the split and pulled back the engine that was at full power.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:10 PM   #613
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Flew over it last night. Nothing better then flying in a plane looking down at a plane crash.

The story has it that the glide scope has been down for some time and SFO.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:13 PM   #614
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The story has it that the glide scope has been down for some time and SFO.
Welcome to Page 2. However, that wasn't the reason this plane crashed.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #615
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Welcome to Page 2. However, that wasn't the reason this plane crashed.
Yeah I havent caught up that far yet. But figured I'd share my photo.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:22 PM   #616
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Yeah I havent caught up that far yet. But figured I'd share my photo.
We've got some good stuff here.

My friend crashed and was killed right next to the runway 2 years ago. I had to fly over the wreckage for 2 weeks before they moved it all. And even then you could still see the gouge in the ground.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:40 PM   #617
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just wondering- for someone on the scopes such as yourself, has technology been a help or a hinderance in being more effective/efficient at keeping airplanes from trading paint?
It's been a huge help since STARS came out. I'm not lucky enough to be using that at the moment, but I have before and it's great. The crappy part is, not every facility can afford the radar system just yet. KAUS has old tech still but they have been able to work around it. It's great being able to not have to worry about getting an ID on an aircraft without having to use or waste time with getting you to IDENT because the system automatically IDs you for me and I'll have a flight strip with your flight plan on it before you even enter my airspace. However, they more tech we get, the more load they'll put on us.

The more jam packed the airspace will be. ATC doesn't like giving slam dunk approaches, but a lot of times we can't help it because of the sheer volume of what's going on. The traffic load just seems to get more dense while the airspace seems to be getting smaller and smaller, meanwhile we've got to follow ****ty noise abatement rules and thinks of that nature. Automation for us just takes out the time we'd normally spend writing out a strip and figuring out who you are and what you want for the most part.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:02 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by Asinine View Post
Is this a real question? Do you think it's even remotely possible that the answer is that radar, lights, and GPS is a liability?
It's a valid question. It means that instead of having one screen to look at, you have multiple screens.

After a certain point it can get to be more of a burden.

Now if you feel that certain point so far above the current question asked then yep... away.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:06 PM   #619
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'Cougar, you're at 3/4 of a mile, way below glide path, call the ball...'

Well, nobody called the ball, so it dropped.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:19 PM   #620
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They're investigating the delayed evac time.

Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO The evacuation of more than 300 people aboard the Asiana Airlines jetliner that crash-landed in San Francisco did not begin until 90 seconds after the aircraft came to rest and only when fire was spotted by a flight attendant, federal investigators said Wednesday.

Getting everyone out of the wide-body Boeing 777 late Saturday morning also was complicated by two escape slides that inflated in the cabin, pinning down two crew members, as the plane careened down Runway 28L.

Based on interviews with six of 12 flight attendants, Deborah A.P. Hersman, chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board, said at a news briefing that the pilots did not order the evacuation because they wanted to contact air traffic control after the heavily damaged jetliner came to a halt.

Part of the NTSB investigation, she said, will explore why it took so long to initiate the removal of the passengers and what caused the escape slides to inflate prematurely during the crash that killed two people and injured 182.

"We don't know what the pilots were thinking," Hersman said. "We need to know what they knew and when, what their procedures were and whether the evacuation took place in an effective manner."

Federal investigators determined that no fire reached the cabin while the passengers were inside. According to the NTSB, crew members fought the spreading blaze with extinguishers before firefighting units arrived.

Asked whether delays in evacuations occur after crashes, Hersman said that flight crews sometimes do not evacuate passengers right away. "Fire is serious," she added. "When it was seen, the evacuation was started."

During the briefing, Hersman outlined other aspects of the ongoing investigation, including a deeper analysis of the plane's automated flight systems to determine how they interacted, whether the pilots used them properly or if they malfunctioned during the landing.

Noting that the Boeing 777 has some of the most sophisticated automation in the sky, Hersman said the systems, such as the auto-throttles, have many settings and can be coupled with one another. Investigators found that in the 2 1/2 minutes before the crash, multiple auto-throttle modes and multiple auto-pilot modes had been set.

"What was the final mode the airplane was in?" Hersman asked. "We still need to validate the data. We need to make sure how the devices were set and what the pilots understood the modes to be."

Along with the automated systems, Hersman said investigators will look at the relationship of the pilots during the landing to see if there was a so-called "authority gradient" that might have affected one pilot's willingness to tell another pilot what to do or to challenge what he was doing.

The plane was flying too low and too slowly in its approach, and investigators suspect the pilots had difficulty maintaining proper air speed for landing.

The NTSB also will explore claims by the one of the pilots that he was blinded by a flash of light during the approach.

Hersman said that air traffic controllers at San Francisco International Airport did not respond to the Asiana pilots' first request to land, nor did they issue any warnings to the plane about maintaining the minimum safe altitude.

San Francisco air traffic control, she added, does not have specific rules tailored for either foreign or domestic carriers. At Los Angeles International Airport, for example, the standard procedure is to require foreign carriers to land using the instrument landing system partly because of language barriers. Visual approaches landing without navigation aids like the one granted to the ill-fated Asiana flight are the exception, LAX air traffic controllers say.

Meanwhile Wednesday, Lee Yoon-hye, Flight 214's cabin manager, appeared at a news conference and humbly expressed grief and condolences before a bank of cameras.

"I wholeheartedly feel it was unfortunate that such an incident occurred," Lee said in Korean, striking a far more apologetic tone than in a press conference earlier in the week with Korean reporters. "I pray that everyone who was hurt by this incident will recover swiftly."

Asiana Airlines announced the news conference around midday and dozens of reporters gathered at San Francisco International in hopes of hearing crew members' accounts of the crash. Among the injured were two flight attendants who were ejected from the rear of the plane when the tail sheared off on impact.

But when the half-dozen members of the crew were escorted by police into the small aviation museum that has served as a makeshift staging area for the media, they looked pained and uncomfortable. They all appeared to be clutching their passports, some each others' arms.

After Lee who had previously given a detailed account of her heroic efforts to save passengers and co-workers made her brief speech, a translator said there would be no further comments.

In what appeared to be a hasty change of plans, organizers of the news conference then wheeled out one injured flight attendant for a photo opportunity. Her eyes downcast, she sat in a wheelchair in a blue striped dress and purple sweater, a green blanket draped over her lap. One leg was encased in a black brace.

As the cameras clicked, she wept.

The Federal Aviation Administration announced Wednesday that it is increasing training requirements for U.S. pilots. Washington lawmakers reacting to the crash called on the FAA to extend the new regulations to foreign pilots.

"There is no reason that American passengers should be put at risk by poorly trained pilots in other countries," Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said at a Capitol Hill news conference. The Asiana accident demonstrated a "troubling pattern of pilot error," he added.

Schumer urged the FAA to press foreign airlines flying in and out of U.S. airports to require their pilots to undergo the same training as U.S. pilots. "If not," he said, "the FAA should consider limiting the carrier's ability to fly in and out of the United States."
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,1307277.story
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:26 PM   #621
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In what appeared to be a hasty change of plans, organizers of the news conference then wheeled out one injured flight attendant for a photo opportunity. Her eyes downcast, she sat in a wheelchair in a blue striped dress and purple sweater, a green blanket draped over her lap. One leg was encased in a black brace.

As the cameras clicked, she wept.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:26 PM   #622
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Maybe the crew was dazed and their first thought was... lets not send people out the plane and into what might still be running engines.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:26 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post

It's a valid question. It means that instead of having one screen to look at, you have multiple screens.

After a certain point it can get to be more of a burden.

Now if you feel that certain point so far above the current question asked then yep... away.
Again, the question asked, at its core, was, is air traffic control impeding the aircrafts' ability to separate.

Look at the last twenty years of aviation mishaps. How many were caused by ATC versus by pilot error or inability to follow ATC direction? How many near disasters have been prevented by ATC?

Maybe I'm reading between the lines too much. I dunno.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:31 PM   #624
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Again, the question asked, at its core, was, is air traffic control impeding the aircrafts' ability to separate.
ah you see... I saw it as "is it making your job tougher"? and V2F kinda affirmed that as well.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:33 PM   #625
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ah you see... I saw it as "is it making your job tougher"? and V2F kinda affirmed that as well.
Um, no he didn't.
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