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Old 07-13-2013, 12:55 AM   #26
ButtDyno
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Having driven both the ST and the MS3, I don't think it's close. The last MS3 I drove couldn't stay straight if you stood on it in 2nd gear. The ST did not torque steer anywhere near as badly as the MS3 did.

The ST's interior is light years ahead of the MS3 imho. Especially the seats.

An STi is a much better car performance wise, but for street use? I would rather have the vastly better gas mileage, nicer seats, nicer interior, etc. And there are people so far having decent results with them as G-stock autox cars IIRC.

FST + cheap track car > STi doing both, IMHO... if that is a possibility.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:17 AM   #27
Sharpbamboo
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When I was in the market, early on the FST was my number one choice; but then i started driving the three cars (ms3 wrx fst) I slowly favored the wrx. Peculiarly enough my roommate ended up getting a Focus ST the same week that I had gotten my rex.

For a DD the FST is definitely a more comfortable/economic ride ( I get around 26mpg stage1 where he can get over 31 stock with conservative driving ) with a lot more creature comforts but for my size - 6'2" with a 36" waist, every time I get back into his car I feel like I made the right choice with the soobie. I have a premium and he has the ST3 package.

It all depends on what you are looking for; good luck with the decision!
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:42 AM   #28
Hokie-wrx wagon
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I took the Focus ST out for a test drive last night. I was impressed, but I didn't get the "MUST HAVE" feeling.

The salesman I've used in the past was out on vacation, but the dealership was still happy tossing me the keys to a new ST and letting me take it out for a spin with my wife (no salesperson). I didn't want to rag on a car with less than 10 miles on it, so I kept the test drive short and subdued. I ran it up and down an empty ~35mph street behind the dealership a few times, which included a fair amount slaloming, braking, and bursts of acceleration from various RPMs (though never near redline).

Performance
The steering, braking, clutch, and throttle inputs all make the car feel very light and nimble. I liked that. The Focus ST feels torquier/peppier than my STI below 3K RPM. I like that too. Past 3K rpm, it's obviously down ~100 hp, but still fun to drive. I didn't notice any torque steer. I could definitely use it as a fun commuter that sees the occasional HPDE, all while getting better mileage than my STI.

Interior / Fit & Finish
The interior is only slightly better than my STI, I was expecting more based on the interior in our 2013 Escape. The steering wheel, vents, and Sync system, are the same as my wife's Escape, but the Escape has more soft-touch materials in the dash and door cards than the Focus. I do love the Focus ST seats. Excellent bolstering.

As others mentioned, it's a bit cramped inside. I'm 6'5" and was worried I wouldn't fit well. I was able to get into a comfortable seating position with some room (not much) for a passenger in the second row. The steering wheel telescopes and adjusts up/down, so I was able to get my knees underneath. With the sunroof, my head is about 0.5" away from the roof. I don't think I could comfortably wear a helmet in the car.

Random interior issues: Cargo cover is one hard piece, not retractable. Rear seats don't fold flat. Rear seats won't fold down unless you remove the headrests, which wasn't a quick operation. No holes in the roof rails for an integrated roof rack (and I don't like the type that clamps to the door frame).

Conclusion
I haven't made a decision, but I'm leaning towards keeping the STI. I may go back in for a longer test drive of the Focus ST after thinking about it more. Over the past ~5 years I've slowly modded the STI into a state that I'm mostly happy with. While the prospect of learning the ins and outs of a new (to me) platform excites me, it's also a lot of work...

I plan to check out the Golf R sometime in the next few weeks. MS3 is a great car, but it's still a non-starter for me based solely on my subjective bias.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:18 AM   #29
Gixhost
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Not crazy...I was able to ride in one at the FEDEX event...the handling was insane and the guy driving it just seemed to have full control at all times and had obviously spent a lot of time in the car...tail of the car was just sliding and following the front end...interior was very nice. It seems like the power came on nearly instantly which was amazing, didn't expect that at all...was very impressed...but at the same time, we've been missing out on the real performances Focus models for some time now...and this is just a sample.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:14 AM   #30
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokie-wrx wagon View Post
Rear seats don't fold flat.
They don't? On the base Focus, the seat-bottoms hinge forward so that the seat backs can lie flat but I did not check on the ST.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:19 AM   #31
Hokie-wrx wagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
They don't? On the base Focus, the seat-bottoms hinge forward so that the seat backs can lie flat but I did not check on the ST.
Didn't try that! I just hit the button/lever at the top of the seat back and let it fall forward. If I go back for another test drive I'll definitely investigate further.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:40 AM   #32
wrxSIN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abnormal View Post

I see your G37 has you smoking crack now.

IMO, MS3 is the better buy... Right now. Let the used market swell up with these things and then buy one to have a more fun, tossable car.
The GTI is a really nice car to sit in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokie-wrx wagon View Post
I plan to check out the Golf R sometime in the next few weeks. MS3 is a great car, but it's still a non-starter for me based solely on my subjective bias.
Thought about this for myself, but its $texas.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:58 AM   #33
crazyski
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I kept hitting my leg trying to get in/out. I'm 6'1"

Handles nice. Mods are limited. Head has a single exit on the exhaust side like in the Civic Si. This limits porting to the head that can be done - the water passageways run really close. It also limits the kind of exhaust manifold you can run and turbo size. You would have to source a head from a different variant.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:47 AM   #34
Tizbitz
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Focus ST doesn't have a LSD, which for what they charge for them, it absolutely should. The MS3 isn't as nice on the inside, but for the dollar you are still getting way more car.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:52 PM   #35
DoingOK
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Price wasn't a deciding factor as they are not too different in cost, but I walked out paying less than $24K for a MS3 with Tech package. Focus ST was quite a bit more. There is a new $1500 rebate on MS3's right now. Wife loves it.



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Old 07-15-2013, 02:28 PM   #36
96accord
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Blue Raptor! :excited:
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:43 PM   #37
KAT_Ayanami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottn6ft7 View Post
I have already raced 2 of them... I have a 2004 STi with Cobb stage 2 OTS map.

Focus ST #1 had Cobb Stage 2 Off the line he experienced traction issues from the get go never caught up, and I walked him from 3rd gear to mid way through 4th it wasn't even fair anymore.

Focus ST #2 was Cobb stage 3 this guy was a better driver and off the line we were pretty neck and neck until mid way through 3rd gear I started to pull away, by the time I was at 3500rpm in 4th gear I really spanked him.

If I were in the market for a fwd turbo charged car I would lean havily towards the Mazda Speed 3 vs the Focus ST. The Focus is way over priced for what you're getting. The factory tune on them is garbage (wayyyyy to conservative and as the car warms up the tune becomes more conservative). I wouldn't buy one without HID's but the only way to get them is to purchase a $3k add on package of mostly useless bells and whistles.

My 2004 STi with minimal upgrades still out performs a brand new car, but they are in two completely different classes. You'd definitely be downgrading.
This was a rather lame and dumb post....
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:45 PM   #38
KAT_Ayanami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prescottn6ft7 View Post
Pretty dick thing for a moderator to say.

I track my car

Oops. I did not see this before I posted. Anyways, the information on your previous post has nothing to do with what the OP is asking.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:42 AM   #39
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizbitz View Post
Focus ST doesn't have a LSD, which for what they charge for them, it absolutely should. The MS3 isn't as nice on the inside, but for the dollar you are still getting way more car.
Even without an LSD, there is WAYYY less torque steer in the ST.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:51 AM   #40
Tizbitz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
Even without an LSD, there is WAYYY less torque steer in the ST.

This issue comes up a lot on the Mazda forums, the usual answer goes a little something like "Not man enough to handle it? Then buy something else and drive in the right lane."



The MS3 really does have horrible torque steer from the factory due to the way too soft rear motor mount. For a bit over a $100 you can get a good quality replacement that will actually hold your engine in place, reducing the torque steer, wheel hop, and tightening up the shifting at the same time.

Even if modding isn't part of the plan for your MS3, I would still suggest replacing the RMM. It makes the day to day driveability a million times better.

And come see us over at http://mazdaspeedforums.org
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:36 PM   #41
ButtDyno
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Power understeer is SOOOO manly

I sort of like the MS3, I just don't get what it's good at.
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:41 PM   #42
DoingOK
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If the wife would have liked the seats in the Focus ST (and slightly cramped feeling front), then I would have gladly picked it over the Speed3. Both cars have pros and cons and she gave the slight edge to the Speed3.....which just happened to be a few thousand cheaper. We have a 2011 Mazda3 hatch for my daughter and it has been flawless for the first 52,000 miles.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:55 AM   #43
Big C
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This is how turbo FWD/MS3/ST/GTI ownership usually goes:

1) Damn this thing is pretty quick in the upper gears -I'm gonna go race a Subaru on the highway
2) ****, the torque steer, pseudo diff, and electronic biasing crap really sucks. Can't use any power in lower gears and my fillings fell out when I launched it from all the wheel hop
3) Man I need to mod this thing....hard mounts, tires, maybe a real diff and a tune
4) Crap, I spent all this money and it's still not even close to as good as a stg 1 STI.

YMMV
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:05 AM   #44
DoingOK
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I'd be surprised if my wife ever gets it over 4K.....I, on the other hand, will hold the steering wheel firmly and take it to the limiter. I'm just glad she picked the Speed3 over the Civic Si she was oogling.

Speed is all relative....I find the STi to be fun, but no where near the CTS-V and C6Z06 I had as far as performance goes. The STi is def' a better balanced car than the Speed3. Wife's little grocery getter is just fun in a less refined way. If I had to take a car for the day, I like my Raptor.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:42 AM   #45
spintheground
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I don't know if that's true Big C.

A lot of people are content with the cars they buy. The majority of people don't mod there cars.


If you're buying a car to street + track then a RWD or AWD car will obviously be the better pick..unless you're intent is to run in a FWD class.
If you're buying a car to daily drive but want some pep - MS3, FST, GTI, Veloster, Juke, etc etc.. are all good options!
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:16 PM   #46
Oaf02Z
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Crazy..Yes! If you dont mind FWD buy a K swapped honda. Would be more fun.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:27 PM   #47
Hokie-wrx wagon
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I'm still mulling this over, but I'm leaning toward keeping the STI.

For me, "Fast" and "Fun" don't always go hand in hand. I've driven plenty of slow cars that were a blast, both in fwd and rwd platforms. So I'm not concerned that a new purchase won't be as fast as my STI on paper (or in real life).

I'll be taking the STI to an HPDE next weekend. That'll put a smile on my face and make me wonder why I even considered posting this thread.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:46 PM   #48
Sin242
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While not a FWD fan, I need to mention the horrible fascination i have with the little 500 abarth... It has a short, twitchy wheelbase, is FWD, it's not super quick and it'll prob break constantly.. but, man, it has so much character and it's just a growly little brawler. I just love 'em.
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Old 07-20-2013, 07:12 PM   #49
jerz_subbie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ludakris View Post
I had it on my radar when I bought my wrx. I never drove one, but the dealer I went to was subaru and ford. I asked the salesman about it and he said it was a nice car but nothing on the wrx. The biggest complaint was the seats, anyone who was larger or taller would be uncomfortable.
I also went with price.. The Focus ST, Mazdaspeed3, and WRX are really close in price.. the WRX is the only one that is AWD. That alone was enough of an advantage for me.
You took the words out of my mouth... My dealer here in NC is Subaru/Ford, my sales guy was impressed by the ST but not enough to choose it over the WRX, and AWD was definitely a plus for me.

Personally, I don't put much value in Fords, their resale sucks, and I shy away from buying 1st yr products of any type. MotorTrend did a decent comparison of the WRX, ST, and Speed3 but don't be confused by their final ranking, the devil is in the details. I don't know how they came up with the ranking they did.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
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