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Old 07-15-2013, 07:58 AM   #1
knuckles27
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Default only start with charge/booster, jump

I have 09 WRX wagon 63.5k miles, TBE, AEM CAI, EFI Tuned @57k miles

Got in car this morning, turned key and nothing, only saw the oil pressure light on dash faintly when I would turn key....no noises at all. Hooked up an old sears charger/booster and set it 12V Boost and the car turned over instantly. Drove it 30 miles to work and parked it on the street. IT WILL NOT START again.

I texted a friend at work to bring in a meter to look at the battery. It is an Optima Red Top that is about 4 months old.

Dont think this matters but I painted the calipers with G2 yesterday and installed RallyArmourUR mud flaps. I did take the car for a 5 minute drive afterwards to make sure all was good and it seemed so.

Any advice?
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:30 AM   #2
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Probably an alternator...but could be a few other things.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:50 AM   #3
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Take the battery out, have a friend take you to any chain auto parts store and they will test it for you. Takes an hour+. Iff battery passes, then take out the alternator and take it to the same store and have it tested.

Quick way first, get car started, disconnect negative terminal, if car shuts off, skip step one above and have the akternator tested. If car continues to run, it's likely the battery which has a warranty and you can trade it for a new one.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:50 AM   #4
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The battery is dead. Clean all connections and then fully charge the battery before trying to troubleshoot the charging system.

Do NOT disconnect the battery while the car is running. This is OK on a 1960's vintage car but not on a car with modern electronics.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIChuck View Post
The battery is dead. Clean all connections and then fully charge the battery before trying to troubleshoot the charging system.

Do NOT disconnect the battery while the car is running. This is OK on a 1960's vintage car but not on a car with modern electronics.
Done this on countless cars, all modern, obdII cars, never seen or heard of it ever causing any problems. Personal opinions aside, it may not be the "by the book" way, but there is always more than one way to skin a cat.....
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:53 AM   #6
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Battery has no amperage.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:15 AM   #7
knuckles27
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Thanks to all for the above advice......
UPDATE: hooked up meter with car off....12.8 (Optima Redtop manufactured 3/2013)
-Car would not turn, 1 click noise on first key turn and then nothing on successive key turns.
-hook up jumper cables, meter reading 13.8..car would not start...no noises.
-gave donor car gas and car started right up and ran it for 2 minutes
-turned off and back on again within a minute...it started.
-waited 10 minutes and it started again.

-Will go back at 4PM when I get out of work and see how it goes.

-----battery was a 14.2 when running.

Last edited by knuckles27; 07-15-2013 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:17 AM   #8
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scby rex-

thanks for your post. what do you mean "no amperage"? Do you mean the car is getting it from the battery or the batter is dead?
Thanks.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathexis View Post
Done this on countless cars, all modern, obdII cars, never seen or heard of it ever causing any problems. Personal opinions aside, it may not be the "by the book" way, but there is always more than one way to skin a cat.....
Just because you've done it and seen no immediate failures does not mean you didn't do any damage. This is not a valid troubleshooting procedure. There are other non-damaging ways to test a charging system. Any professional that would even think about doing this has no idea what they are doing. This is not a matter of opinion, it is engineering fact!

OP if you post this in the electrical forum you will get better results. Right now you have a dead battery and don't know if it's a battery issue, a charging issue or a connection issue. See post #4
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles27 View Post
Thanks to all for the above advice......
UPDATE: hooked up meter with car off....12.8 (Optima Redtop manufactured 3/2013)
-Car would not turn, 1 click noise on first key turn and then nothing on successive key turns.
-hook up jumper cables, meter reading 13.8..car would not start...no noises.
-gave donor car gas and car started right up and ran it for 2 minutes
-turned off and back on again within a minute...it started.
-waited 10 minutes and it started again.

-Will go back at 4PM when I get out of work and see how it goes.

-----battery was a 14.2 when running.
U have a connection problem or bad starter and or could be an ignition issue as well.

My bet would be bad connection or solenoid on the starter. I would check all your connections and inspect for corrosion or loose connecting wires. If everything checks out Havering someone tap on the starter (solenoid) lightly with a hammer while trying to start the car and if your car starts then u know its the starter for sure. Even if the car doesn't start while tapping on the solenoid still doesn't rule out a bad starter.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:09 PM   #11
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trev762, car started again at lunch with no issue. I will check some connections tonight. Thanks.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:09 PM   #12
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C'mon guys, it's a dead cell in the battery causing low cold cranking amperage. It happens all the time, even to new quality batteries. Op, don't listen to internet diagnosis. Get battery tested. Just because the battery has 12+ volts does not mean it's not failing......

Edit: Remembering a past experience....

I should mention, everything could be just as you said with voltages reading perfect and the car still not start if the connectors are not tight enough. Checking tightness by hand is sometimes not enough. It wouldn't hurt to give the nuts on your terminals another turn. Don't wrench em, just check for a good snug fit.

Last edited by Cathexis; 07-15-2013 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:09 PM   #13
knuckles27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIChuck View Post
Just because you've done it and seen no immediate failures does not mean you didn't do any damage. This is not a valid troubleshooting procedure. There are other non-damaging ways to test a charging system. Any professional that would even think about doing this has no idea what they are doing. This is not a matter of opinion, it is engineering fact!

OP if you post this in the electrical forum you will get better results. Right now you have a dead battery and don't know if it's a battery issue, a charging issue or a connection issue. See post #4
Thanks. I posted another thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2528389
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:00 AM   #14
knuckles27
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I think the issue is resolved. Thanks to all for advice. The negative terminal was very loose. Needless to say I tightened. so far so good. something so damn obvious I should have taken a minute to think about things...instead I assumed a 4 month old red top was deab and used a booster to start my car cause i had to get my daughter to daycare and me to work.
thanks again to all
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:33 AM   #15
Cathexis
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Glad to hear. Don't sweat it man, as I said earlier, the same thing happened to me.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathexis View Post
C'mon guys, it's a dead cell in the battery causing low cold cranking amperage. It happens all the time, even to new quality batteries. Op, don't listen to internet diagnosis. Get battery tested. Just because the battery has 12+ volts does not mean it's not failing......

Edit: Remembering a past experience....

I should mention, everything could be just as you said with voltages reading perfect and the car still not start if the connectors are not tight enough. Checking tightness by hand is sometimes not enough. It wouldn't hurt to give the nuts on your terminals another turn. Don't wrench em, just check for a good snug fit.
C'mon u said it "low cold cranking amperage" as optima batteries r notorious for this in winter time not in the summer plus also developing a dead cell in which u would need to jump start it every time.

Yes just because the battery is reading 12 volts or 14v when running doesn't mean it is good. What really counts is when its under load.
If it was winter time I would have definitely said dead battery.

Interstate batteries I think r the best all round batteries I've ever used
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:15 AM   #17
Cathexis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trev762 View Post

C'mon u said it "low cold cranking amperage" as optima batteries r notorious for this in winter time not in the summer plus also developing a dead cell in which u would need to jump start it every time.

Yes just because the battery is reading 12 volts or 14v when running doesn't mean it is good. What really counts is when its under load.
If it was winter time I would have definitely said dead battery.

Interstate batteries I think r the best all round batteries I've ever used
Did you read any further or just the first line? If you had read the other post I made you would see I also offered up other suggestions that also turned out to not be the case either....

Furthermore, I was making a point. All of you guys were dead set on it being a mechanical problem, the point i was trying to make in the first sentance was that more likely than not it was just the battery.

Heat is just as detrimental to batteries as cold. When i lived in az i never paid for a battery as every summer the heat would ruin it and i would get a warranty replacement....
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:30 AM   #18
trev762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathexis View Post

Did you read any further or just the first line? If you had read the other post I made you would see I also offered up other suggestions that also turned out to not be the case either....

Furthermore, I was making a point. All of you guys were dead set on it being a mechanical problem, the point i was trying to make in the first sentance was that more likely than not it was just the battery.

Heat is just as detrimental to batteries as cold. When i lived in az i never paid for a battery as every summer the heat would ruin it and i would get a warranty replacement....
Haha!!rolleyes:/

U should reread my post I was being sarcastic on the first line and the rest I was agreeing with u lol.

I've never had to replace a battery in the summer and even though I live in southern Ontario we have extreme heat plus 110% humidity in the summer but have always used expensive batteries. Today it is 38 degrees C.

Out of all the batteries I've ever used the optima battery gave me the most trouble.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:12 AM   #19
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Haha!!rolleyes:/

U should reread my post I was being sarcastic on the first line and the rest I was agreeing with u lol.

I've never had to replace a battery in the summer and even though I live in southern Ontario we have extreme heat plus 110% humidity in the summer but have always used expensive batteries. Today it is 38 degrees C.

Out of all the batteries I've ever used the optima battery gave me the most trouble.
Lol, sorry man. I just let this thread get under my skin a little more than i should have. Once I was called out for saying disco the terminal, which I am still on the fence about because race cars use a battery isolation switch (if they even have a battery) that isolates the rest of the electrical system from the battery, (not all of these use resistors to inhibit the surge,) I got a little defensive.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathexis View Post

Lol, sorry man. I just let this thread get under my skin a little more than i should have. Once I was called out for saying disco the terminal, which I am still on the fence about because race cars use a battery isolation switch (if they even have a battery) that isolates the rest of the electrical system from the battery, (not all of these use resistors to inhibit the surge,) I got a little defensive.
No prob I here ya

Yes u can never have enough redundancies but with late model vehicles today with all the sensitive electronics there is very little to worry about as the voltage regulators work really well and even when they start to fail, will actually limit voltage or surging.

Also having good ground wires and relays plus resisters where needed.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:30 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by trev762 View Post

No prob I here ya

Yes u can never have enough redundancies but with late model vehicles today with all the sensitive electronics there is very little to worry about as the voltage regulators work really well and even when they start to fail, will actually limit voltage or surging.

Also having good ground wires and relays plus resisters where needed.
My thoughts exactly. I've just done it too many times. Perhaps if there was an underlying issue, and i've just been lucky, lol. I do know how to use a multimeter and will in the future to be safe.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:24 PM   #22
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Its not the surge, its the ac amperage. Before I knew any better I've done it on one of my older cars as a diagnosis. It had a really low quality stereo and as soon as you disconnected the battery you could hear a slight hum in over the speakers, which is typical of a cheap radio expecting dc current and getting some ac current mixed with the dc.

Op found his problem, which was the same problem I had on that car, loose terminal. That car happened to have it be the hot post on the starter.
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