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Old 07-24-2013, 10:15 AM   #1
The Phenx
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Default P301-304 Missfire codes '03 2.0

'03 wrx Stage III Prodrive + other stuff. TD04 19.1 PSI.

Case background.

Got new motor at 227,000 miles from an '05 wrx (just bought the whole drivetrain)

Motor has 32k upon install.

Car runs f'n great no issues.

259,000 miles time for a new clutch. Decide at the same time to swap the rest of the drive train from the '05 donor vehicle.

So it gets '05 trans, new clutch, flywheel turned, new shifter bushings, new front axles. Done at Andrewtech.

Starts throwing missfire codes when I pick it up. Andrew and I go over the car for about an hour and can find nothing wrong.

Checked:
Grounds
All hose clamps that would have been removed for trans install.
Egt Probe
All Wiring Harnesses from flywheel back.

Misfire codes pop up, under extended periods of boost, 7 times in 5th gear, 1 time in 4th gear.

I do not feel any loss in power. Car drives great. No loss in gas milage, no noticeable missfire. I can hammer down drive like a comeplete ftard and it wont missfire... just floored in 5th for 5-10 sec.

Anyone got any suggestions? What could happen during a clutch job that would make missfire codes under prolonged boost?
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:24 AM   #2
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:35 AM   #3
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Aye I have read that, and am fairly knowledgeable.

I suspect either a grounding issue or...

10. Lightweight flywheels or crank pulleys. (phantom misfires) Can cause false misfires. Opensource tuning can disable.

its odd that it would be fine for 30k and then not fine.

12. Faulty fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump. Check fuel pressure. It should be bewteen 35-38psi idle @ sealevel. Removing the vac line at idle should give you 43 psi. The FPR is a 1:1 rising rate. For every 1 psi manifold positive pressure the fuel pressure should rise 1 psi.

The fuel pump does have 260,000 miles on it. I could see sustained WOT causing a slow drop in fuel pressure if the pump is losing its ability to keep up, and the trans replacement is just coincidental. Where is the good port to meter fuel pressure at? Wouldn't low fuel cause a code?

Ground I am going to go through and clean them all up. again.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:55 AM   #4
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My FPR tested fine operationally, then I did an intake pressure test @20psi, and found leaks all around where the two halves are crimped together. Don't assume it's trouble-free, replace it. It's not terribly expensive, and super easy to replace.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Groceries? View Post
My FPR tested fine operationally, then I did an intake pressure test @20psi, and found leaks all around where the two halves are crimped together. Don't assume it's trouble-free, replace it. It's not terribly expensive, and super easy to replace.
Groovy. I got an OTC FP tester in a drawer somewhere ill toss it on and give it a look see tomorrow and report back.

I just assume some parts will fail at 1/4 million miles lol.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:21 PM   #6
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Idle is 38 psi WOT at 19 psi from 2700-5500 was reading 62 psi. Had a misfire event during that run with no pressure dip, So assume that means fuel pump/filter checks out.

Grounds could be better fitting at the terminal gonna try replacing that next...

Have no way of logging air fuel but wouldn't a lean out throw a code?

Still no noticeable loss of power during the event that throws the code.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:59 PM   #7
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CEL Freeze Frame Data from tonight.

P301-304

RPM - 2996
Load % 45.0
MAP KPA 192
Coolant Temp 186
STFTRM - % 0.0
LTFTRM % 0.0
MPH 73
FUEL 1 - Open
Fuel 2 - N/A

SO anyone got any ideas for me?

Seems pretty ok except for the CEL...
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:08 PM   #8
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Nevermind.. see previous 2 comments.

Last edited by The Phenx; 07-24-2013 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:23 AM   #9
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Bump for attention.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:31 AM   #10
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Try to post romraider logs and maybe check these codes against parameters in Romraider.
In ecutek deltadash I think you can actually log at which point the code came up, so this can be done in romraider too.
Loking at all the parameters at the time will give you a better idea.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
Try to post romraider logs and maybe check these codes against parameters in Romraider.
In ecutek deltadash I think you can actually log at which point the code came up, so this can be done in romraider too.
Loking at all the parameters at the time will give you a better idea.
THanks man.

Gonan try data logging soonish...but the freeze frame shows almost perfect running conditions.

List to check/do is still timing belt tensioner, and clean up the grounds, inspect all the connectors under the intercooler.

Just not sure why this would pop up after a trans swap... makes about 0 sense.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:45 AM   #12
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oh, wait. Which neutral switch are you using? the wiring harness with the '05 will not allow you to use the '03 switch.
If you are using the '05, the functionality is reversed compared to the logic in the '03 ECU.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
oh, wait. Which neutral switch are you using? the wiring harness with the '05 will not allow you to use the '03 switch.
If you are using the '05, the functionality is reversed compared to the logic in the '03 ECU.
I dont think anything got swapped in there so prolly the '05 switch is still there... would that toss a missfire code tho? Seems like it would just think its in neural when it wasn't lol.

Solution would be to... swap sensors? reverse the pins in the wiring harness?
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:12 PM   #14
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If nothing got changed in the '05 transmission, meaning, it went in with its harness and with its neutral switch and is running now with the 2003 ECU, then the 2005 switch is normally closed, vs the 2002 switch is normally open, or viceversa, I don't remember.

The '03 switch will not plug into the 2005 transmission harness.

You have to take the 2003 switch, cut the connector and splice the 2005 connector. Reversing the pins will not make a mechanically normaly open into a mechanically normally closed switch.
Test the function with a meter, to confirm it's reversed, between the two.

As far as the ECU, with Romraider you can log it's response. You can see how it will read neutral while you're in gear

As far as how this affects its engine management, not all has been "decoded" in romraider from the factory tables.
But it's conceivable that the same way polarity of the neutral switch affects the AVCS function in other cars, it may shift you into a different table for a parameter and then you get the misfire.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:44 PM   #15
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You were absolutely right on the sensors VLAD... its fixed.. lets see if the missfire code goes away.

Oh and btw... the reason it would trip it.. is cause in neutral the ecu expects no load.. or at least thats my theory.
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Old 07-27-2013, 06:37 AM   #16
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It can very well be true. I'm glad you fixed the sensor and good luck with this being the cause, I hope it fixes the misfire.

My recollection of the tables for the 2002 WRX is not that good (the ROM), but several cars have "timing advance 1", "timing advance 2", etc and in Romraider, there are only attempted answers, as to why and what makes the ECU choose one table or another, maybe because most there are from the computers/electronics field, not necessarily mechanical engineering.

So my theory is that maybe the neutral switch shifts to the next table in that or maybe in fueling, which also has several tables.
Some tables are for drivability, not performance and people have trouble figuring why that table is there.
There could be a table for reverse too.
The factory may worry about emissions in idle

Just the other day, I was thinking about why my old Mercedes E420 is cranking for 3+ seconds before starting and all of these do, even the E500 that collectors have. This may be a reliability setting, rise up the oil pressure before giving it gas and spark. There is a table in the Subaru Rom for this as well...maybe that's why it's there..

etc
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:04 AM   #17
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125 miles on the odometer since the fix and looks to be solid, no cel. Drivin it like I stole it.

I owe you a beer Vlad, you the man.

Car does not want to think its in neutral when its running.
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:51 PM   #18
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I'm glad this worked for you.

Hey, two questions:
At what power level would you say you are at this point (since you have added things to the stage 3) and what kind of gas mileage are you getting?
I have this theory that Prodrive, just like Subaru, left the tune pig rich and this is one of the keys to longevity.
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I'm glad this worked for you.

Hey, two questions:
At what power level would you say you are at this point (since you have added things to the stage 3) and what kind of gas mileage are you getting?
I have this theory that Prodrive, just like Subaru, left the tune pig rich and this is one of the keys to longevity.
I don't know how an aggressively tuned TD04 is considered Stage 3... to answer your question with a similar setup, Peak boost at 19.5 psi tapering to 14psi at redline I was putting down somewhere around 250 to the wheels on my 03 WRX. Mind you, I was running 660cc injectors because I was maxing out my stockers at redline
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I'm glad this worked for you.

Hey, two questions:
At what power level would you say you are at this point (since you have added things to the stage 3) and what kind of gas mileage are you getting?
I have this theory that Prodrive, just like Subaru, left the tune pig rich and this is one of the keys to longevity.
It'll make you mad.

Last dyno.. 259.1/242.4
19.1 psi by 2650 rpm taper to 17 @ rev limiter.

Higway MPG @ 75mph w cruise on... highest recorded 27.90 mpg.. avg 26 mpg

Combined city/highway diving it like I stole it. I mean launches from every light, downshift passes, 75-85 mph with higher bursts I average 23mpg.

It definitely leans a little rich for safety, but they tweak everything about the ecu, not just boost levels and fuel mapping.

And pulled original motor at 227,000 miles due to needing a valve job, and replaced it instead. It became a race motor for someone.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenx View Post
It'll make you mad.

Last dyno.. 259.1/242.4
19.1 psi by 2650 rpm taper to 17 @ rev limiter.

Higway MPG @ 75mph w cruise on... highest recorded 27.90 mpg.. avg 26 mpg

Combined city/highway diving it like I stole it. I mean launches from every light, downshift passes, 75-85 mph with higher bursts I average 23mpg.

It definitely leans a little rich for safety, but they tweak everything about the ecu, not just boost levels and fuel mapping.

And pulled original motor at 227,000 miles due to needing a valve job, and replaced it instead. It became a race motor for someone.
I don't see how that is possible.. at all
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I don't see how that is possible.. at all
Couldn't tell you, they are wizards.

There is a reason I went with their parts & tune, when everyone else was saying how they were far too expensive, go with Cobb, etc etc etc...

That was peak dyno.. If I average all the runs its in the 248 range...

If someone can contact the Dan that used to run Prodrive Usa and get the unlock for the ECU ill happily share.
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Old 07-29-2013, 04:10 PM   #23
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I don't know how an aggressively tuned TD04 is considered Stage 3
It's somewhat of an "insider thing", both the Phenx and me ran Prodrive Stage III for a long time, he might be the last on the forum to still run this.
Prodrive stage 3 is not the same with Cobb's system of stages. It's contemporary, originating around 2003.

Prodrive stage 3 is with the original TD04, much more expensive than what it normally takes to put together a Cobb stage 2 and has some very particular features.

My question to the OP is from one PPPIII owner (former) to another, since I kinda forgot what I was doing, towards the end, when I went with a bigger turbo and got a customized tune.

In general, the Prodrive tune had a lot of timing, something many stay away from. Prodrive could run it, because of their long history in WRC and extensive testing that they could afford.
However, you were very restricted in what you were allowed to do to the car, once you had the kit installed.

To this day, I still run the Prodrive turbo back, converted to twinscroll, at this time, it's a very good unit.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
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It's somewhat of an "insider thing", both the Phenx and me ran Prodrive Stage III for a long time, he might be the last on the forum to still run this.
Prodrive stage 3 is not the same with Cobb's system of stages. It's contemporary, originating around 2003.

Prodrive stage 3 is with the original TD04, much more expensive than what it normally takes to put together a Cobb stage 2 and has some very particular features.

My question to the OP is from one PPPIII owner (former) to another, since I kinda forgot what I was doing, towards the end, when I went with a bigger turbo and got a customized tune.

In general, the Prodrive tune had a lot of timing, something many stay away from. Prodrive could run it, because of their long history in WRC and extensive testing that they could afford.
However, you were very restricted in what you were allowed to do to the car, once you had the kit installed.

To this day, I still run the Prodrive turbo back, converted to twinscroll, at this time, it's a very good unit.
Aye the kit was $2500+Ship in the way back.

They also moved the boost and fuel way up into the pedal, so you start building boost against a partially closed throttle plate. Makes the spool up speed much faster versus simple map replacement.

When I was working with Prodrive Uk's engineers in the beginning they pretty much told me everything I could do to amp the performance more in conjunction with their tune, and I did it all.

CAI
Samco Inlet
Larger intercooler
Tighted the wastegate adjustment
Lightened flywheel
Intercooler Sprayer

...and it REALLY responded. I clocked a 4.1sec 0-60 run when I gave a crap years ago lol.

I honestly never changed mine because I loved how well it performed and didn't break stuff, besides its cool to be the only person who has something.



Did you ever get the 3% error correction out of the Prodrive speedo?
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:12 PM   #25
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I did not figure this out yet.
I asked the guys at Tacoma Speedometers if they could do some other things, but I noticed recently that they have a speed calibration service.
I'll call them soon, let you know how much this is.
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