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Old 08-06-2013, 02:38 AM   #1
02Worx02
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Default A/F-R Opinions Requested

2004 WRX - Invidia catless up/down pipes, Fujita C.A.I., Grimmspeed 3 Port Boost Controller, Custom 3" Straight pipe(rear exit), Samco intercooler hoses, h.k.s. SQV B.O.V. (i think thats it for engine parts)

Bought the car with these items from a dealership in Washington, I'm in Arizona. Dealership claims the vehicle was tuned by Outback Performance at 19PSI on the factory turbo. I am unable to verify this info as Outback does not file by car but rather the owner's name(dealership wont divulge, I don't blame them). Either way, once I have the money(soon) I will be visiting Rob at F.A.T. by recommendation of my friends at AMP Performance. Until then, my wideband O2 shows almost exactly 12-1(usually just a tick under, analog gauge) during w.o.t. through second gear, my e.g.t.s under hard driving avereage between 800-1050 degrees. Car runs great considering the turbo under hood and the million degree sun pounding down, just looking to see if anyone feels this may be lean as a lot of threads seem to recommend closer to 11.5-1. Thanks for any input.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:51 AM   #2
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I have read a lot about afr and 12 is supposed to be a good number and safe also. Good for economy cause your not using a lot of fuel. I think once you get into wanting more power and boost or wanting to advance timing people with subies go into the 11's for fueling. I myself am running 11.1:1 afr right now at wot.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:34 AM   #3
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What kind of wideband is it? ANd have you verified that its at or close to 19psi?

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:21 PM   #4
02Worx02
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It is an AEM UEGO set-up and, No, I have not verified the 19 psi number, the AEM boost gauge that someone chose to install is only a 16 pound gauge, and It does peg quite quickly, so it's at very least 16psi.... that reminds, anyone wanna trade a 16PSI AEM boost gauge for one that reads higher than 19 or in bar? lol. I just need to know that it'll be safe to beat on this little Betty, I plan to hit Inde Motorsports Ranch on the 31st for about two hours of track day fun and blowing a motor is no fun.... can anyone confidently concur with the statement 12-1 is fairly safe? Thanks for your input by the way Drew, much appreciated.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Worx02 View Post
It is an AEM UEGO set-up and, No, I have not verified the 19 psi number, the AEM boost gauge that someone chose to install is only a 16 pound gauge, and It does peg quite quickly, so it's at very least 16psi.... that reminds, anyone wanna trade a 16PSI AEM boost gauge for one that reads higher than 19 or in bar? lol. I just need to know that it'll be safe to beat on this little Betty, I plan to hit Inde Motorsports Ranch on the 31st for about two hours of track day fun and blowing a motor is no fun.... can anyone confidently concur with the statement 12-1 is fairly safe? Thanks for your input by the way Drew, much appreciated.
12 to 1 is not safe at 19 psi and especially not for track use.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:47 PM   #6
dux10
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I agree with Ed- 12:1 is absurd for pump gas. A setup like yours should be in 11.2-10.9 region, maybe a little leaner depending on the tuner.

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dux10 View Post
I agree with Ed- 12:1 is absurd for pump gas. A setup like yours should be in 11.2-10.9 region, maybe a little leaner depending on the tuner.

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
This is something that is specific to boxers(due to cooling issues of course!). Many other cars can run 12:1 all day long with no issues as long as other things are taken into account. Evos can be tuned 12-12.5:1. And alot of direct injected platforms (mazdaspeed/Cobalt SS/vw TSI etc) can be pushed a little bit farther. Hell even FI hondas can run 12:1 if well tuned. But on a boxer, anything leaner then 11.2:1 is asking for trouble.

But you probably knew this steve! OP, the point is that on other platforms, 12:1 is a decent target as long as boost isnt ridiculous high (over 2bar, or 27-28 ish PSI) but on boxers, they need to be much richer for cooling aid!
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:55 PM   #8
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Hmm, okay, I'll stick with the Corvette for the track day until I can get her tuned then, thanks fellas. This car was tuned was tuned in Washington where they have 92 at the pump, not much of a difference from 91, I wonder if they did a race gas tune... I spoke with the guys at Outback and they said I could pick up a Tactrix opensource unit and send them the maps for a retune, May I ask what you use for your "emaps" Steve? Another question, a comment was made about pump gas specifically, if I was to run 100+ would that make any difference or is the ecu still gonna continue to try and keep it around 12-1? I guess with my basic understanding, the higher octane should make that 12-1 actually richer since each part of fuel is in itself "richer"?

Last edited by 02Worx02; 08-06-2013 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:56 PM   #9
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End, none of my temps seem to be above average and I've not noticed any pinging as of yet....
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:19 PM   #10
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Its not about ECTs. Its more about combustion temperatures. Even EGTs dont tell the full story. I dont fully understand it myself, but after working on many different platforms I know that subarus just have to be tuned richer.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:58 PM   #11
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I would bet that el headers allow for leaner afr. Could be wrong. But if one bank is lean due to the airflow limitations then running richer all around allows the lean bank to run optimally.

This was true in one of my previous cars.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 08-06-2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Worx02 View Post
Hmm, okay, I'll stick with the Corvette for the track day until I can get her tuned then, thanks fellas. This car was tuned was tuned in Washington where they have 92 at the pump, not much of a difference from 91, I wonder if they did a race gas tune... I spoke with the guys at Outback and they said I could pick up a Tactrix opensource unit and send them the maps for a retune, May I ask what you use for your "emaps" Steve? Another question, a comment was made about pump gas specifically, if I was to run 100+ would that make any difference or is the ecu still gonna continue to try and keep it around 12-1? I guess with my basic understanding, the higher octane should make that 12-1 actually richer since each part of fuel is in itself "richer"?
I PM'd you.

As for "pump gas" vs "race gas," you could go leaner but only marginally. I was actually implying that alternate fuels such as E85 (which burns cooler) can be tuned a decent mount leaner than 91-93 OCT.

Steve @ Pullz-On Tuning
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:37 PM   #13
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Yeah they're right I don't think I read your whole post I'm very sorry man. I didn't realize you were running boost that high or using it for the track. I'm no specialist and I know for sure that naturally asperated engines can run in the 12s safely and turbo charged in the 11s. I need to pay more attention to everything people write. I have only been doing this for a year so I'm always learning that is something I should've gotten right for you I'm sorry buddy.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endrswrd View Post
Its not about ECTs. Its more about combustion temperatures. Even EGTs dont tell the full story. I dont fully understand it myself, but after working on many different platforms I know that subarus just have to be tuned richer.
You should pay attention to the EGT's when tuning lean and paying attention to knock as well I believe along with ECT's and IAT's. I always thought it was just ECT when I first started with turbo charged engines.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:10 AM   #15
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My 13 wrx is 11.1 at wot. My 2 other friends see also 11.1 in an 07 and 05 sti.
im not a math magician but i think you are running lean.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:37 AM   #16
ProfessWRX
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Originally Posted by SpoolinJon View Post
My 13 wrx is 11.1 at wot. My 2 other friends see also 11.1 in an 07 and 05 sti.
im not a math magician but i think you are running lean.
Most fi cars in my history prefer 11-11.5

This shouldn't be news.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:32 PM   #17
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Well, cool, thanks a crap ton fellas! I finally spoke with Rob at FAT, he's pretty much substantiated everything you guys have said, he was quite worried about my a/f numbers. So, when I have the money, he'll be doing a "summer" tune for me, taking down the boost about 2 psi and adding some fuel into the mix. I'm very disappointed in the need to park my baby but, at this point I'm just hoping that I stopped before any damage was done inside. Thanks again fellas and I'll be sure to update when I've got her back to her former glory!
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:39 AM   #18
garn
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It depends on your timing under boost.. Traditionally 12.5 would be "on the edge" for street FI cars.. I shoot for 11.5, no reason to give up some buffer for an extra 10 whp..

However, If you aren't knocking during repetitive 4th gear pulls then you are okay. Numbers and general guidelines are great but every car is different and without more info on the tune other than just AFR, no one can definitively say, so monitoring knock is your best bet.
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:04 AM   #19
02Worx02
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Thanks for all of the input fellas. Talked to Rob at FAT on the 11th, he seemed pretty concerned with what I had told him, much like most of you. He was very helpful over the phone. I took a quick peak at their digs and seems pretty respectable(some amazing cars in there). I hope to have my baby in there this weekend, safe to say I am pretty confident in them and expect great things from them. I'll update as soon as the tune is completed. Thanks again friends.
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