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Old 08-26-2013, 12:59 PM   #101
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As far as the autos, it should still work, just not sure how well. You're right you don't need LC, as your stall won't let you past anyways. A couple guys around town here are actually using NO2 to build boost up on the stall. Just brake boost, a little pissst piisssst, and that's all you need. It's enough to jump start the boost, then they're sitting at the light with 15+psi ready to roll, and only used a micro of nitrous in the tank.

The Antilag may work, but you'll have to plat with it. It depends on a few things, like how big your turbos it and what you can effectively rev to. If your turbo doesn't spool till 5K and you can't rev past 2K by break boosting, probably not going to help much, as you still need the revs there. If it's 3300 like you say, it may be helpful. It's really whether or not you'll have enough RPM's worth of exhaust flow to spool the turbo. I suspect if it does work, it may take a bit longer to spool than the manual guys, but once it is spooled you won't have to keep using the button, the BB should hold enough load to keep it going.

But let us know what you find, I too am very curious.

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Old 08-26-2013, 01:02 PM   #102
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It does work, I have tested this on a vf43 swapped fozzy. You brake boost from a stop, hold it for a second until the rev holds and you are making the 0-1psi of boost. Hold the antilag button down, if the timing is set right the rpm's wont raise and you will generate about 10psi. Let go of the brake and button,
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:44 PM   #103
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Once you generate 10#, if you let go of the button but continue to brake, will it hold and maintain the boost, or does it want to drop back down?
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:39 PM   #104
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It pulled away from the line hard holding boost

More playing with mine today.

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Old 08-26-2013, 06:01 PM   #105
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Was that you just revving in neutral in the first video or are you brake boosting? I have a td06sl2 20g 8cm on my fozz and can usually hit 27psi by 4200 or so but will start spooling around 3k rpm. So being able to brake boost to around 3200 or so and can get me around 5psi I would think the anti lag should get me what im looking for. I may try this in the near future rather then going with a high stall or n02 since its my dd baby hauler and hate the feel of a high stall while just cruising around.
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:04 PM   #106
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Thanks guys


Will be trying this on Friday night

Will report back with details and grab some info for some donations
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:05 PM   #107
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The one vid is launch control with antilag and the other is using it from a roll
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:16 PM   #108
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On a auto or manual?
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Old 08-26-2013, 06:55 PM   #109
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Thise are from my car. 98 rs, ej257, td06 20g, crappy rs drivetrain still
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:20 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insaneimpreza View Post
Thise are from my car. 98 rs, ej257, td06 20g, crappy rs drivetrain still
what do you have your timing retard set at? im using a similar setup (ej257 with td06 20g and lots of bolt ons) ive only gone to about 19.33, my launch is set at 4500 which builds like 9-10psi boost on its own so the antilag pushes to almost 15
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:19 AM   #111
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Nate and I have the same problem... and I'm anxiously waiting to see how this ends up working on an automatic.

I could be wrong, but I want to clarify that in the instance of the SH (09-13) Foresters, which are all automatics (the XT's at least; the X's were offered with a 5 speed), our AccessPorts don't offer launch control. Unless there is an offering that I'm not aware of, that's probably off the table for us.

I've got a ~350whp car that does GREAT roll on's, but s**T launches. I'd LOVE to find a way around that, and I'm hopeful that this is that way.

UPPCOS... you make me wish I was living in the Springs again ('84 - '98). You'd have my Fozzy for as much testing as you'd like. Thank you SO much for offering this up. Just today I was considering taking the Foz back to stock and tossing all of my mods onto an '08 WRX instead. What a difference one day can make!
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:47 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushdylan View Post
what do you have your timing retard set at? im using a similar setup (ej257 with td06 20g and lots of bolt ons) ive only gone to about 19.33, my launch is set at 4500 which builds like 9-10psi boost on its own so the antilag pushes to almost 15
I have the IAT Comp tables at -25* and the Rev limit retard set at -10
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:41 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugeneutopia View Post
Nate and I have the same problem... and I'm anxiously waiting to see how this ends up working on an automatic.

I could be wrong, but I want to clarify that in the instance of the SH (09-13) Foresters, which are all automatics (the XT's at least; the X's were offered with a 5 speed), our AccessPorts don't offer launch control. Unless there is an offering that I'm not aware of, that's probably off the table for us.

I've got a ~350whp car that does GREAT roll on's, but s**T launches. I'd LOVE to find a way around that, and I'm hopeful that this is that way.

UPPCOS... you make me wish I was living in the Springs again ('84 - '98). You'd have my Fozzy for as much testing as you'd like. Thank you SO much for offering this up. Just today I was considering taking the Foz back to stock and tossing all of my mods onto an '08 WRX instead. What a difference one day can make!
Wouldn't this and a torque converter solve that? You'd have to go pretty high on the stall speed though...

That or be the first with a trans brake.

Last edited by ProfessWRX; 08-28-2013 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:25 PM   #114
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Wouldn't this and a torque converter solve that? You'd have to go pretty high on the stall speed though...

That or be the first with a trans brake.
Maybe? I don't know really. I'm more of a "pay someone else who is good to do it" rather than do it myself. I break things alot, and there is too much risk in this to trust my mechanical aptitude.

If I'm going to have it all out anyway, might as well swap the tranny.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:44 PM   #115
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If ANYTHING..............this "hack" is the most streetable version of antilag ive ever come across. And for the 3 and a half people on here who do want the actual "rocket" style antilag.......look at what the exhaust and valves are gonna run you. I read somewhere that the real WRC cars have over 15000 just in piping to withstand the tremendous amout of heat retarding the timing constantly(everytime you lift the throttle actually) which in my opinion.is waayyy too damn often to be using antilag. UPPCOS concept actually gives you COMPLETE control of WHEN you want to use this feature. Obviously if your a real WRC rally driver or at least have a real WRC car....youll be using some other sort of engine management, such as a rally ecu or a pricey standalone. I doubt we have rally drivers on here lookin for antilag hacks as this stuff here that were using is pretty low key and very simple in function as opposed to the other options :/ Bottom line is....if you want the capability of building boost (basically whenever you want when tuned appropriately)...this is probally one of if not THE safest way to do it on a daily driver.
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Another 2 cents from me

This stuff gets posted here all the time yet its usually by people who have never even *seen* ALS in real life, much less driven/owned/etc it. It really only serves to continuously spread misinformation. I'm not ragging on you "Paidfor" I'm just hoping people will just spot posting "what they know" when they don't really "know", not because their stupid but simply because its so *rare*.

So, about ALS cooking engines and turbo's and needing 15-20k$ in magic metals.. no, not the case. Last Ditch Racing for example ran a groupN style ALS an entire rally season on a stock TD04 on a mostly stock STI engine without destroying anything at all. sometimes it breaks something. Apparently most of the time it doesn't. Its also apparently highly dependent on how aggressive an ALS system you install. The prodrive "rocket" setup is pretty darn aggressive (its also WRC, so money is less of an issue, lol). You can supposedly setup a pretty decent rally style ALS and if you monitor your EGTs and turn it off before they get to crazy you could probably get away with it for quite a while.

Still, the rally teams I've spoken with (and as discussed in a thread called "antilag destruction" on special stage) say a huge factor is the driver. If he spends lots of time off throttle then ALS will wear things out faster then the guy who stays pegged to the floor all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cassidy
We ran ALS in our older GC8 Impreza. Never had any damaged parts. Best switch activated solenoid we've found is one from a Caterpillar diesel engine. It's the fuel shut off solenoid. Don't have the part #, but your local Cat dealer can find it for you. We have it wired up to our cruise control cable.

Kind of obvious, but ALS still needs to be tuned in the ECU. I wonder how much damage is done by poor tunes? It makes intuitive sense that turbos would go, but we ran a TD04 Subaru turbo for a season at 23psi. The thing was spooled all the time(and was great!), and never failed.

Cheers! John
Also, another piece of info that gets tossed around like gospel in ALS discussions "Rally teams rebuild their engines after every race so thats how they can run anti-lag". No, they don't. WRC factory teams, or other big euro racing teams might do it but in the USA, and at the lower levels of racing they certainly don't rebuild them constantly and they do run ALS. I'm sure most of them *wish* they could afford to rebuild every race

Personally I just want a "bang" switch so I can throw flame and make really loud banging noises to annoy/frighten random drivers/pedestrians. Any actual performance improvements would only be a bonus.

This hack, while not really true ALS as we rally folks think of its still an interesting hack. Thanks for the info OP.

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Old 08-29-2013, 07:15 AM   #116
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Quote:
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Wouldn't this and a torque converter solve that? You'd have to go pretty high on the stall speed though...

That or be the first with a trans brake.

Wouldn't be the first at all with a trans brake. And a 3500 stall is really the max you'd want to do in a daily driven car.

You would need a phase 1 trans to get a reverse manual valve body with trans brake.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:06 AM   #117
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Wrong.......damage done by REAL ANTILAG...is not driver related. REAL antilag is ON anytime your OFF the throttle. That means that antilag is on MOST or the time. KILLIN your exhaust pipes with Extreme heat and popping.Get your facts straight. Do you really think your gonna need REAL antilag on your daily driver buddy? lol Stay off my streets.....and away from my kids school!!!
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:19 PM   #118
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Wrong.......damage done by REAL ANTILAG...is not driver related. REAL antilag is ON anytime your OFF the throttle. That means that antilag is on MOST or the time. KILLIN your exhaust pipes with Extreme heat and popping.Get your facts straight. Do you really think your gonna need REAL antilag on your daily driver buddy? lol Stay off my streets.....and away from my kids school!!!
wait, what? you just proved his own point and disapproved your own. ALS is active when OFF the throttle so if you're on the gas, there's no ALS effect. so yes it's true, if you are on the gas 90% of the time then how will it ruin it? on another note, we have a couple people who have ran anti lag and have experience with it when they owned and drove the car for an entire season with anti lag. back to your argument, if it's not driver related then what do you mean by saying its on 'most' of the time?

Last edited by rushdylan; 08-29-2013 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:45 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by WhatTurboLag? View Post
Wouldn't be the first at all with a trans brake. And a 3500 stall is really the max you'd want to do in a daily driven car.

You would need a phase 1 trans to get a reverse manual valve body with trans brake.
I only did a quick google search and saw no hits for a trans brake in these cars. Cool to see it has been done.

Also, 3500 is nothing on a street car IMO. Have you owned a stalled auto? It is ENTIRELY dependent on the driver as far as how much stall is too much for their car. I have had a few higher stalls and didn't mind them. The better quality ones will allow you to go higher and not lose drivability. My brother hated his 3200 stall for being too much for his DD, I, however, was about to do a 4000 stall in my car before I sold it (3600 was far too low). Only reason I wasn't DD'ing it was due to the mileage being so low, but that wasn't the stalls fault. It was the Cam and injectors on obd1 tech.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:30 PM   #120
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Keep readin son.........youll figure it out soon.
This mod is about having "Antilag effect" without the actual hassle of doin anything related to having "actual rally style antilag" (such as titanium pipes, nickel finned tunbines ,turbo mounted speed sensors blahblahblah), ...as this "Real antilag" you and some of your rally wannabe xbox gaming buddies keep dreaming of having on your stock beater will either...1.Get you killed(most probable)...2.DESTROY your little stock car(real...All the time antilag will melt your engine verrry quickly regardless who says otherwise)...or 3.Get you beat up, removed from you car by force and get handcuffs slapped on you so quick youd wish you were in you sisters camry. You don't want...wait..you couldn't even control bladder with that **** bro. You gonna be sittin at the stoplight waitin patiently for the light change, meanwhile your bouncing off the limiter makin 20 psi of boost, cuz you off the throttle...remember? lol....what you thinks gonna happen ? ... If you want the real deal max boost while your off the throttle antilag then yes......this mod is not for you and if your even reading this in an attempt to gain what you think is some sort of a free mod for you rally car, ...well then.....I think you have some priority problems. I would think you would have a team to do this for you while you sit inside your cabin sippin merlot waiting on the next x games competition not givin a damn how antilag works. Truth is "antilag"...as everyone knows.....is a method of making boost while pulling timing....extreme retard factor...turbo screamin...blah blah. THIS mod is for DIY folks that are broke as hell and all we care about is turning this feature on WHENEVER you would like it....not All the time.( once you've set your timing comps accordingly that is).... period. That's it....quit arguing about what the fukc antilag IS, and help these guys figure out the problems they are encountering trying to enable this feature on the Autos
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #121
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Based on the tone of this post your broke from using too much PCP or something.

My post pointed to actual real evidence of real racers using rally style ALS with stock components without issues for hundreds of miles over the course of a racing season. Your welcome to disregard their actual experience and continue believing you need 10,000$ in exhaust bits to run ALS, its no concern of mine.

As for the bit about getting killed, etc, I don't remember mentioning running "full" ALS (as in balls to the wall full boost) on the street, and certainly not "all the time". That would be kind of foolish to just cook your engine while putsing around town wouldn't it? One thing I'm not sure thats been mentioned is if you crank the throttle plate to run ALS you will also make braking much more difficult since the car is now fighting you (among other things). There are some good suggestions on combating that in the rally threads.

I LOLed at the "beat up, cuffs, sis's camry" stuff. I feel sorry for you if you live somewhere that the cops routinely beat up and arrest you for loud pipes or backfires. Its not likely to happen around here.

Also, the comment about "sitting at the light, bouncing off the limiter because your making 20psi of boost" just proves you're not actually listening at all. One of the primary design goals of ALS is to provide boost when the engine *isn't* reving. If your engine is spinning at readline why would you need to blow fuel and air into the exhaust to spin the turbo? the engines already producing plenty of exhaust pressure at that point right? And why would you leave it on at a light?

And the "sipping wine" bit is funny. Have you even been to a real rally event? There are tons and tons of teams running on tiny budgets. You should go if you haven't. 100 Acre wood was probably the most fun I've ever had at a "subaru" event. Plus it was hilarious seeing thousands of WRXs and STIs flooding a tiny town in Missouri.

Anyway, lets not flood a information thread with chest beating, threats, or general nonsense. Regardless what "this" is called it is still interesting and useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
Keep readin son.........youll figure it out soon.
This mod is about having "Antilag effect" without the actual hassle of doin anything related to having "actual rally style antilag" (such as titanium pipes, nickel finned tunbines ,turbo mounted speed sensors blahblahblah), ...as this "Real antilag" you and some of your rally wannabe xbox gaming buddies keep dreaming of having on your stock beater will either...1.Get you killed(most probable)...2.DESTROY your little stock car(real...All the time antilag will melt your engine verrry quickly regardless who says otherwise)...or 3.Get you beat up, removed from you car by force and get handcuffs slapped on you so quick youd wish you were in you sisters camry. You don't want...wait..you couldn't even control bladder with that **** bro. You gonna be sittin at the stoplight waitin patiently for the light change, meanwhile your bouncing off the limiter makin 20 psi of boost, cuz you off the throttle...remember? lol....what you thinks gonna happen ? ... If you want the real deal max boost while your off the throttle antilag then yes......this mod is not for you and if your even reading this in an attempt to gain what you think is some sort of a free mod for you rally car, ...well then.....I think you have some priority problems. I would think you would have a team to do this for you while you sit inside your cabin sippin merlot waiting on the next x games competition not givin a damn how antilag works. Truth is "antilag"...as everyone knows.....is a method of making boost while pulling timing....extreme retard factor...turbo screamin...blah blah. THIS mod is for DIY folks that are broke as hell and all we care about is turning this feature on WHENEVER you would like it....not All the time.( once you've set your timing comps accordingly that is).... period. That's it....quit arguing about what the fukc antilag IS, and help these guys figure out the problems they are encountering trying to enable this feature on the Autos
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:03 AM   #122
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The "tone" of my voice? lol
With words on a screen???


Thats cute......you sound like my wife


I think i like you .)
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:28 AM   #123
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So back on topic - if my rom (2004 audm Subaru liberty GT) does not contain a and b tables for IAT compensation, but rather has one table - will this be sufficient to trigger the ALS on spool up with button depressed

One of my other concerns is in first gear fully pegged, my turbo only makes 7psi or so at 3200rpm.

So with my stall Convertor being 3500 say, will the ALS actually allow more boost than would ordinarily be built at the same revs in first gear, whilst staying on the brake and stall Convertor?

(I'm basically asking if ill ever be able to make more than 7psi on brake boosting with the als, seeing as my car in wot first gear will only make 7psi or so at 3200rpm which is my stall Convertor break point.

??
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:04 PM   #124
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I was wondering the same thing but i am pretty confident it will allow you to build more boost while maintaining the same stall speed. When you brake boost it around 3200 rpm if you push the button it should retard the timing so much the rpm wont climb or at least wont have the timing to brake free. But the extra fuel burning in the turbine should allow the turbo to spool up higher while remaining under the same rpm/load i would think. I am waiting for someone else to try this i dont want to be the guinee pig but i am pretty sure it will beneficial.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:58 PM   #125
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^^^Correct.........your gonna build more than 7 psi with retarded timing. Assuming you can build more than 7 any other time.
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