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Old 08-30-2013, 06:21 PM   #126
dr20t
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If that's the case then I won't need the ALS button, as I can just flash a tune that retards timing enough at that load point / rpm whilst on brake boost to retard timing then release

Will try a few things today and report back
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:30 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
Wouldn't this and a torque converter solve that? You'd have to go pretty high on the stall speed though...

That or be the first with a trans brake.
Anyone have a non IPS website I can product that they can suggest I look at?
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:56 PM   #128
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Level 10 and pro torque also do high stall converters if you want to look at something else besides ipt.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:35 PM   #129
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Changing the timing table with a neg value anywhere in the load range isn't gonna work.(Or I should say..didn't work for me lol) Your gonna be driving thru all load ranges eventually......uphill.......downhill.......cruisi ng. I thought the same thing too....but it worked horribly lol I was browsing through some DSM Evo roms today tho. Noticed a lot of folks running negative timing at low rpms(2000 and less) at high loads (2+). I don't know why.......if you enter negative timing anytime while your actually driving, Its like a brick wall for me so idk whats up with that. May be some merit to retarding timing im not aware of tho. I am curious to know why I saw the neg timing cells tho ......
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:20 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Paidfor View Post
Changing the timing table with a neg value anywhere in the load range isn't gonna work.(Or I should say..didn't work for me lol) Your gonna be driving thru all load ranges eventually......uphill.......downhill.......cruisi ng. I thought the same thing too....but it worked horribly lol I was browsing through some DSM Evo roms today tho. Noticed a lot of folks running negative timing at low rpms(2000 and less) at high loads (2+). I don't know why.......if you enter negative timing anytime while your actually driving, Its like a brick wall for me so idk whats up with that. May be some merit to retarding timing im not aware of tho. I am curious to know why I saw the neg timing cells tho ......
Evos run low timing and make a lot of power doing it. I believe it's because VE of that motor is better than suby.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:05 PM   #131
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I was talking specifically about flashing a tune for the drag strip with shiploads of negative timing at 0.80 to 1.40 load range and 800-2800 rpm (which is where my stall Convertor stops on the brake).

I tried this with -20 degrees in those cells in the timing A and B (cruise and non cruise) tables, and reduced kca in the corresponding cells to 0.

Will try changing kca to say -10 and see what that does first

Intention here is to build boost in the retarded timing zone and then go straight back into the standard tables once its on boost and past 3000rpm

At the drags ill be on wot thereafter and will not be under 3000rpm again so no issues. Even the drive back up the strip to staging will be ok with retarded timing
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:30 AM   #132
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Dr20T it's still not going to work that well. You'll have much slower response timing when you let of the brake trying to "leave" those cells that you're in, than you would letting go of a button the instantly (relatively) and gaining all your timing back.

Please try to keep this thread on topic though. The bickering about what to call it is irrelevant at this point. It is antilag, but it's not ALS (AntiLag System) as they are traditionally known.

BP_968 you do bring up some good points and good argument in relation to the life expectancy of parts. I'm sure there are a lot of variables (aggressiveness, tune, driver, etc) that go into how long any anti lag system will last. Hell if you sit at the stop light holding this antilag all the time you will eventually do damage. But when done properly (even the ALS) we'd be surprised what's possible. Same way we used to look at pulling 400+whp out of a stock 4cyl wasn't possible, would damage your engine, and wouldn't last long.

Can some of you Auto guys post up video's of this. Brake boosting, brake boosting with the button, AND brake boosting with the button then letting go of the button but continuing to brake boost. We've never really implemented this on an auto, and my curiosity is really peaked on how well it works.

CK
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:35 AM   #133
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On a side note, alot of you guys with the older Subs asking about not having A map and B map. That's fine, you should only have one IAT vs IGN map. That's the one you'll need to edit. And you won't have a 3D map of load/rpm either, but you may have a IAT Comp Load Min scalar that you may need to edit. That is load must be above X (.60 stock) in order to take IAT timing adjustments into consideration. So if you're playing with it at idle wondering why it's not working.....that's why.


CK
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:56 AM   #134
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Thanks ck

Had every intention of still using your Als setup but was merely saying in the meantime it might be worthwhile trying my trick

Back on topic
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:41 AM   #135
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Ok so I got the ALS all setup today


Tested it with romraider logger and iat drops gradually to -40 degrees with button depressed.

However I couldn't get the spool up to happen on brake boosting

I tried about ten different values (reflashed every time) for negative iat compensation but still couldn't get it.

Logged total timing, and even with -20 degrees total timing showing, it wasn't building any boost.

Any ideas?
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:46 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr20t View Post
Ok so I got the ALS all setup today

Tested it with romraider logger and iat drops gradually to -40 degrees with button depressed.

However I couldn't get the spool up to happen on brake boosting

I tried about ten different values (reflashed every time) for negative iat compensation but still couldn't get it.

Logged total timing, and even with -20 degrees total timing showing, it wasn't building any boost.

Any ideas?
is your car actually tuned? I have the following:
timing compensation IAT: -24.23
rev limit timing retard: -7.44

it builds 15ppsi idle and brake boosts about regular with my non anti lag brake boost as I build 15-16psi on a good brake boost.
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Old 09-01-2013, 06:12 PM   #137
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Yes my car is tuned - turbo is gtx3076 with 0.82 rear housing.

I have had total timing max out to -20

Perhaps its because my base timing and kca are so high

At 0.6 - 0.8 load, at 2400rpm, base timing is 48 degrees plus 7 degrees kca.

Subtract 45 from this (which is the maximum compensation I can put in there), and the max timing retard I'm getting is like -20 and that's only happened once when I set iat compensation to -45. I tried -42 (to target -17 degrees total) in the next rom flash and total timing maxed out at -9 degrees, even though it was only 3 degrees less in the compensation

At the moment all it does on brake boost is bog down. And with normal brake boost it won't make more than 1 -2 psi
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:23 AM   #138
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Wow I just came across this thread and I have to give thanks to the OP for coming up with this sweet hack.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:36 AM   #139
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Any advice for my dilemma above?
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:35 PM   #140
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Im having a bit of trouble trying to figure out something. Does anyone have any idea why it would work rolling and not for launch? Any help appreciated.
Edit: Figured it out...

Last edited by TS7XREX; 09-05-2013 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:41 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by TS7XREX View Post
Im having a bit of trouble trying to figure out something. Does anyone have any idea why it would work rolling and not for launch? Any help appreciated.
Edit: Figured it out...
Care to share?
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:39 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by dr20t View Post

Care to share?
I had some funky values in the IAT timing comp activation tables. I don't know what to think about the auto problem. I'd try setting the activation to a really low rpm and see if you can't get it to activate, I don't know what you've already tried.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:56 PM   #143
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I have no plans to use this, but I gotta salute UPPCOS all the same... This is a clever hack.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:17 AM   #144
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Timing comp activation tables are 2d for me not 3d, and therefore I don't envisage that to be my problem

Will have another play tonight and see how we go

Mick
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Old 09-06-2013, 02:21 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr20t View Post
Timing comp activation tables are 2d for me not 3d, and therefore I don't envisage that to be my problem

Will have another play tonight and see how we go

Mick
Remind me again, are you auto? If so what's your stall at? And when you're logging you're actually logging ~-17* of timing?

CK
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:01 AM   #146
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Yep auto

Factory stall is 3200rpm. But I can't stall past 2800. I think the Convertor re builder tightened it too much when I had it rebuilt. Or it could be my laggy ass ATP 0.82 housing on the gtx3076.

Yes logging shows going down to -20 degrees total timing. That's with iat timing compensation set to the maximum of -45 degrees.

If I back off the timing by 3 degrees (targetting -17) then the maximum retard only goes to -10 degrees which is weird as I had only backed off the value by 3 degrees from when it was hitting -20

Same load points etc.

I also made sure minimum load comp was reasonable (set at 0.6 which I'm exceeding on the brake stall going up to 1.4 load)
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:37 PM   #147
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If your foot is heavy on the brake and your throttle is wide open and it's not spooling then maybe 2800 rpm's just isn't enough?
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Old 09-06-2013, 07:03 PM   #148
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I considered that


But the thing I don't get is this same Convertor with my previous turbo and engin setup (2.0 litre with a gt2871) was able to spool to 10psi at 3200rpm on the brake and allowed 1.7 60 foot times

The antilag should surely fix this though? Isn't the purpose to be able to spool the turbo irrespective of revs (obviously needs minimum load for iat compensation to be reached) ?

If the antilag is setup correctly with timing retard, the combustion occurring in the exhaust manifold somewhere should be able to spool the lazy turbine even if I was at say 1500rpm / 0.6 load or above on the brake
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:12 PM   #149
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Brake stall vs flash stall are different. The same exact converter will also stall higher or lower as power changes. Don't expect a converter to do any of this the same. It's impossible.
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Old 09-06-2013, 08:35 PM   #150
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Quote:
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Brake stall vs flash stall are different. The same exact converter will also stall higher or lower as power changes. Don't expect a converter to do any of this the same. It's impossible.
Mate that is my exact point - thus why I was saying my old setup with the same convertor could stall to 3200 no problems.

It's because of the larger compressor and turbine housing.

The new heads are alot better flowing too. With over 500whp this setup is far from inefficient

Without straying off topic - would love some advice from those in the know on how to reach optimum ignition retard of -17 degrees.
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