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Old 12-10-2013, 08:30 PM   #126
KillerBMotorsport
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Any chance you've plumbed the heads to the S/O separator from the head's balance ports instead of the baffled ports?

Drain port from the Crawford has no upturns anywhere, all downward slope to the crankcase connection?

Was the shortblock built to loose tolerances or OEM spec?
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:20 PM   #127
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Double checked my AOS set up and it is correct per Crawford's instructions. It is the two ports on each head that is towards the front of the car. Yes, the slope from AOS to crank is directly sloped down. No humps. The block I assume was honed to meet Cosworth gap requirements. There is a possibility that he made it a little loose.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:01 PM   #128
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Bottom end clearances... mains, rods...?

If the turbo is new, seals are likely good, unless you're pushing too much oil you'll overwhelm the seals since they are just a labyrinth seal, not an actual 'seal'. An OEM tolerance block with an oversized pump.

Or, turbo was not primed and one of the seals was burned up.

Or, excessive blowby. How many miles on the? Compression and leak-down numbers?
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:50 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Bottom end clearances... mains, rods...?

If the turbo is new, seals are likely good, unless you're pushing too much oil you'll overwhelm the seals since they are just a labyrinth seal, not an actual 'seal'. An OEM tolerance block with an oversized pump.

Or, turbo was not primed and one of the seals was burned up.

Or, excessive blowby. How many miles on the? Compression and leak-down numbers?
The block was built 1.5 years ago. I don't think in getting build numbers unfortunately.

I am starting to think I need a restrictor. Precision says that bb turbos may be fine without a restrictor. So that to me means they may need one as well.

I cranked the engine a few times first to build oil pressure before firing the car up. The first time PE looked at the turbo they said it was fine. I did the same process for priming both times. Compression and leak down was done in July. Probably around 10k miles ago. I did the tests when I noticed oil loss and burning oil out of the exhaust shortly after installing the turbo. This was prior to sending my turbo in for work.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:56 AM   #130
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"Symptoms: Burns oil, especially when running hard in boost. "

If the oil were being burned in the cylinders, you don't seem to have soot in the right places. You would also have detonation because the oil would lower the octane rating of the mixture in the cylinder. Could the oil be blowing by the turbo seal into the exhaust side. Is it a big deal to check it?
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:10 AM   #131
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If it was fine before the turbo was put in, that would be the culprit, either restrictor (or lack of) or seal. How long ago was the 12mm pump installed?
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:38 AM   #132
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The 12mm pump was installed at the time of my block install, 1.5 years ago, 27k miles ago. I did loose a little oil from the block but never to this extent.

I emailed with Precision an they said to swap my -4 feed to a -3 feed. I hope to have this done sometime today or this week.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #133
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Killerbee, did you see the pics I posted? Do they "look" like a normal engine would look like? Nothing alarming other than the oil coming out of turbo?
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:45 AM   #134
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"Symptoms: Burns oil, especially when running hard in boost. "

If the oil were being burned in the cylinders, you don't seem to have soot in the right places. You would also have detonation because the oil would lower the octane rating of the mixture in the cylinder. Could the oil be blowing by the turbo seal into the exhaust side. Is it a big deal to check it?
The is what you can see in my pic of the turbo. Oil coming out. The downpipe is black from oil most likely since headers are pretty clean in comparison. My tune might be masking the oil leak in the block though but as you can see the motor looks pretty decent and can almost be ruled out for being the cause.

I think we are going to go with it being a feed issue for now and see what that gets me. He said as long as idle pressure does not drop I'm ok. W a smaller feed line I do not see how pressure would drop. If anything it would go up.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:21 PM   #135
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-3 feed line is in. Hope this is the problem.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #136
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Killerbee, did you see the pics I posted? Do they "look" like a normal engine would look like? Nothing alarming other than the oil coming out of turbo?
I was, but there was no downpipe pic. Touch to tell looking at the turbine, but the pre-turbo side looks pretty normal.

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I'm ok. W a smaller feed line I do not see how pressure would drop. If anything it would go up.
It shouldn't, you'll just push that much more through the oil bypass. If anything your system pressure will increase some as a smaller oil restrictor, restricts the flow of oil

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-3 feed line is in. Hope this is the problem.
And???

Does the turbo have a restrictor in it or do they rely on the feed line? If it has a restrictor, like a Garrett, shrinking the feed may not change anything as they can use a -3 or -4 feed line. The Garrett restrictors are in the .035"-.065" range if I remember correctly. Although these are different turbos.

Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 12-12-2013 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:50 AM   #137
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I think precision wants to slowly restrict the flow and not jump directly to a .065 or whatever restrictor. I do not currently have a restrictor. I just ordered a .065 just in case.

In order to make sure they don't revoke my warranty ill wait for them to tell me what to do next if the -3 isn't enough.

I have read on line that many Hondas have to use real small restrictors since they run at 100 psi. Garrett's use .3-.35 restrictors since they are water cooled.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:10 AM   #138
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Stepping down is definitely a good idea. You can get Garrett restrictors in .065 down to .035 and there are some suppliers that make them in other oddball sizes as well. Hopefully your very near solving your problem
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:16 AM   #139
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Part of me is happy and part of me is pissed if this was my problem the whole time. I have no idea why I hadn't thought about feed pressure. I only worried about drainage and crank case pressure. I was about to modify my AOS to put a 1" opening for a filter.

Anyways. I'll report back as I keep moving along.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:22 AM   #140
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Precision turbos have built in restrictors in them. If your blowing oil past the seal it likely bc your crankcase pressure is too high and backing up on the return line. Make sure you have no kinks in your lines. Happened to me once with a GT35R. Ended up getting a new center cartridge only to find it was still dumping oil out the turbine. Found one tiny kink in a breather line and problem solved. Moral of the story, wasted $800 for nothing. Double check all your lines.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:58 AM   #141
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I'll double check my hoses again but I'm pretty sure none of them are kinked.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:10 PM   #142
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Ok sorry I haven't read this entire 6 pages but I read a few. Has anybody looked into the Moroso dual "catch can/air oil seperator" set up. This looks like the best setup, even if you don't have the '08+ you can easily custom this to work in any engine bay and it looks WAY better then the Crawford, also can use AN fittings to make your lines braided steel if you do AN fittings on your heads/block... it's a 2 can setup 1 for the heads 1 for the crank case. The baffling looks like the best I've seen yet, steel wool at the top of the can and a well between the 2 sides so everything drops into a can and can't get back up (the steel wool also looks easily serviceable so you can clean it off or replace it... bottom cans easily screws off for viewing and dumping also has a quick dump valve you can attach a hose to for staying clean, how can you beat this?




Dual cans is good too because you can see what type of **** is coming out you CC or your heads, this might help you solve some issues and realize what is going on more so than 1 can mixed.

p.s sorry if this has already been talked about in this thread but I didn't go through all of it lol
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:30 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinically_ill View Post
Ok sorry I haven't read this entire 6 pages but I read a few. Has anybody looked into the Moroso dual "catch can/air oil seperator" set up. This looks like the best setup, even if you don't have the '08+ you can easily custom this to work in any engine bay and it looks WAY better then the Crawford, also can use AN fittings to make your lines braided steel if you do AN fittings on your heads/block... it's a 2 can setup 1 for the heads 1 for the crank case. The baffling looks like the best I've seen yet, steel wool at the top of the can and a well between the 2 sides so everything drops into a can and can't get back up (the steel wool also looks easily serviceable so you can clean it off or replace it... bottom cans easily screws off for viewing and dumping also has a quick dump valve you can attach a hose to for staying clean, how can you beat this?

Dual cans is good too because you can see what type of **** is coming out you CC or your heads, this might help you solve some issues and realize what is going on more so than 1 can mixed.

p.s sorry if this has already been talked about in this thread but I didn't go through all of it lol
I don't think they have enough area to relieve enough pressure. In most peoples cases. And they are expensive. Id get one made for that.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:29 PM   #144
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Do the Crawford units have more "area" (legit question what do you mean by this)? Also 1 can is dedicated for the crank case & one for the heads so wouldn't this help with that? As long as the inlet/outlet sizes are the same I would think they would act the same for relieving pressure?
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:41 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
I don't think they have enough area to relieve enough pressure. In most peoples cases. And they are expensive. Id get one made for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinically_ill View Post
Do the Crawford units have more "area" (legit question what do you mean by this)? Also 1 can is dedicated for the crank case & one for the heads so wouldn't this help with that? As long as the inlet/outlet sizes are the same I would think they would act the same for relieving pressure?
I think he meant volume which is 3 dimensional vs area which is 2 dimensional!

Some guys do like the Moroso cans and I think they do work using the two cans. Some of my buddies swear by them.

I personally like the closed loop and heated aspects of the Crawford and now Perrin AOS's. The Perrin looks very well thought out and executed!
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:44 PM   #146
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Element tuning catch can works fine with 500whp for me
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:15 PM   #147
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They are two different animals. The Moroso relies on the vapors being pushed through media vs the Crawford that uses swirl pot technology. Personally I like the Crawford much more (that's what we use and recommend) and it creates much less crankcase backpressure (or pressure build up) vs pushing thought a media. A media based product will need to have the medial removed and cleaned periodically. The Crawford also drains the oil back into the oil system immediately. Cans, under the right conditions, can fill significantly lowering the oil capacity in the car's pan, possibly leading to oil starvation.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:40 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_Imprezav View Post
Precision turbos have built in restrictors in them. If your blowing oil past the seal it likely bc your crankcase pressure is too high and backing up on the return line. Make sure you have no kinks in your lines. Happened to me once with a GT35R. Ended up getting a new center cartridge only to find it was still dumping oil out the turbine. Found one tiny kink in a breather line and problem solved. Moral of the story, wasted $800 for nothing. Double check all your lines.
Double checked my lines and noticed a small kink in the crankcase to aos line. Not the drain. The hose had a kink right above the fitting to the crankcase. It wasn't enough to close the hose off but it was slightly collapsed.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:18 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
They are two different animals. The Moroso relies on the vapors being pushed through media vs the Crawford that uses swirl pot technology. Personally I like the Crawford much more (that's what we use and recommend) and it creates much less crankcase backpressure (or pressure build up) vs pushing thought a media. A media based product will need to have the medial removed and cleaned periodically. The Crawford also drains the oil back into the oil system immediately. Cans, under the right conditions, can fill significantly lowering the oil capacity in the car's pan, possibly leading to oil starvation.
i found the system into the PCV to be bloody useless though. i plumbed mine straight down into the 2nd bung on your killer B oil sump
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:12 AM   #150
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i found the system into the PCV to be bloody useless though. i plumbed mine straight down into the 2nd bung on your killer B oil sump
Interesting! There's not much slope down into the PCV location. I'd love to plumb mine down to a lower point and I'm sure this works. What did you do to plumb this?
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