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Old 12-16-2013, 10:57 AM   #151
KillerBMotorsport
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The nice thing about the factory drain point is that it's highly baffled. You're not getting oil to backfeed into the A/S separator. Going to the pan there is no protective baffling, although, you'd have to be doing something extraordinary to get oil to backfeed from all the way down there.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:15 AM   #152
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Good point Chris! My drain line got pinched and eventually leaked which I found and then replaced it. I think the AOS is working pretty well again after replacing the drain line and doing a slight re-route of it.

I would think that draining the AOS into the 2nd bung on the oil pan would work well. The hose would always have some oil in it up to the level of the oil in the pan but it should all drain back to the pan.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:48 AM   #153
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I am at 550whp and running the moroso dual can set-up as long as you dont let it over fill it works great.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:40 PM   #154
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^ This is why I'm not big on cans... putting any oil in the can lowers the capacity in your oil pan, that's available to the engine.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:08 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
^ This is why I'm not big on cans... putting any oil in the can lowers the capacity in your oil pan, that's available to the engine.
in an E85 car like mine, do you really want all that crap draining back into the oiling system? I would think it would break down the oil faster.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:17 PM   #156
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It's in there anyway. Has it caused any damage?

A catch can is there for separate oil vapors, not remove caustic byproducts from your oil. If it removed 2% of toxic byproducts (compared to what's going into the oil), I'd be impressed.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:17 PM   #157
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It's already in the crankcase. You're just managing blow by venting crankcase pressure, then with a the heated swirl pot AOS allowing fumes from fuel and oil to vent off and recirculating the collected oil back to the crankcase.

The goop you're seeing come out of the Moroso cans is condensed water vapor mixed with oil and fuel residue and no I don't want that mixture draining back into my crankcase. The heated cans like the Crawford and now Perrin allow the oil to seperate, fumes to vent off and because it's heated you don't get the condensation that you get with a cold AOS can like the Moroso or any other cold AOS systems.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:52 PM   #158
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^ Even so, that goop is found heavily on every extremity exposed to ambient air (balance tubes, oil fill tube, etc., and most interior surfaces to some extent). This has been happening since engine oil has been used in internal combustion engines for more than 100 years, and the 'goo' has never been documented to cause 'bad things'.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:00 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
It's already in the crankcase. You're just managing blow by venting crankcase pressure, then with a the heated swirl pot AOS allowing fumes from fuel and oil to vent off and recirculating the collected oil back to the crankcase.

The goop you're seeing come out of the Moroso cans is condensed water vapor mixed with oil and fuel residue and no I don't want that mixture draining back into my crankcase. The heated cans like the Crawford and now Perrin allow the oil to seperate, fumes to vent off and because it's heated you don't get the condensation that you get with a cold AOS can like the Moroso or any other cold AOS systems.
that makes slightly more sense, however my moroso cans are heated as well ( they sit 4" above my down pipe)

beyond that the crawford and perrin systems are very large, with a tightly packed engine bay it makes them fairly challenging to fit.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:07 PM   #160
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Interesting! There's not much slope down into the PCV location. I'd love to plumb mine down to a lower point and I'm sure this works. What did you do to plumb this?
i bought a killer B sump and then put a brass barb in the 2nd hole it has in it next to the drain plug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The nice thing about the factory drain point is that it's highly baffled. You're not getting oil to backfeed into the A/S separator. Going to the pan there is no protective baffling, although, you'd have to be doing something extraordinary to get oil to backfeed from all the way down there.
dunno. i found the whole thing to just be a BS system with the crawford really. did not want to drain down/separate properly at ALL. i was not impressed in the slightest. when you consider how small the hole is for the oil to drain back down through and that crankcase pressure is supposed to flow UP that same area... the whole design just seems completely retarded to me.

having the PCV as a pure outlet and then the return from the AOS down into the sump along with the full killer B kit is as far as i'm aware, the best setup possible without going dry sump.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:14 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
^ Even so, that goop is found heavily on every extremity exposed to ambient air (balance tubes, oil fill tube, etc., and most interior surfaces to some extent). This has been happening since engine oil has been used in internal combustion engines for more than 100 years, and the 'goo' has never been documented to cause 'bad things'.
True story there! After installing my Crawford, I soon deleted that head vent cross over steel tube, it was always full of the goop. Keeping the old in a liquid state with a heated can helps it to drain back. It's hard to make it flow when it's in a solid state!
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:16 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
i bought a killer B sump and then put a brass barb in the 2nd hole it has in it next to the drain plug.


dunno. i found the whole thing to just be a BS system with the crawford really. did not want to drain down/separate properly at ALL. i was not impressed in the slightest. when you consider how small the hole is for the oil to drain back down through and that crankcase pressure is supposed to flow UP that same area... the whole design just seems completely retarded to me.

having the PCV as a pure outlet and then the return from the AOS down into the sump along with the full killer B kit is as far as i'm aware, the best setup possible without going dry sump.
I like the sound of this solution! I could plumb an AN line from the sump up to the can area and adapt that to the can! Hmmm!!
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:18 PM   #163
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Quote:
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that makes slightly more sense, however my moroso cans are heated as well ( they sit 4" above my down pipe)

beyond that the crawford and perrin systems are very large, with a tightly packed engine bay it makes them fairly challenging to fit.
Actually the Perrin is not that large, I run it and you could fit it into some small areas.

As for yours being heated as well, the heat coming off your DP is not going to have the same affect as your coolant literally heating the AOS up and maintaining temp. Sure it might not be cold but it sure wont be like hot coolant running through out its passages.

I could be wrong sense I have not seeing exactly how yours is set-up, I just know it would be hard to make that work efficiently with out some serious effort.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:23 PM   #164
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Actually the Perrin is not that large, I run it and you could fit it into some small areas.

As for yours being heated as well, the heat coming off your DP is not going to have the same affect as your coolant literally heating the AOS up and maintaining temp. Sure it might not be cold but it sure wont be like hot coolant running through out its passages.

I could be wrong sense I have not seeing exactly how yours is set-up, I just know it would be hard to make that work efficiently with out some serious effort.
coolant only gets to 200* maybe 250 if you are pushing the car hard. ive used a heat gun before in that area on my car and it gets well above 200*.

the downfall is obvious it catches the vapor rather than recirculate it back into the system.

not that it catches much at all, on average it is about 1 cup per every 3k miles of hard driving, its not even noticeable on the dipstick.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:17 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorth85 View Post
coolant only gets to 200* maybe 250 if you are pushing the car hard. ive used a heat gun before in that area on my car and it gets well above 200*.

the downfall is obvious it catches the vapor rather than recirculate it back into the system.

not that it catches much at all, on average it is about 1 cup per every 3k miles of hard driving, its not even noticeable on the dipstick.
Like I said I could be wrong, all I know about heat transferring off MY downpipe is it couldn't warm up noodle soup from 4" away. But then again mine is coated and I have plenty of air circulation keeping my bay cool.

Did you use a heat sink or something to focus the heat towards the can or just banking of engine bay temp to get high enough to get your can to reach 200*?
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:48 PM   #166
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Like I said I could be wrong, all I know about heat transferring off MY downpipe is it couldn't warm up noodle soup from 4" away. But then again mine is coated and I have plenty of air circulation keeping my bay cool.

Did you use a heat sink or something to focus the heat towards the can or just banking of engine bay temp to get high enough to get your can to reach 200*?
no heat sink of any sort, the cans are just close enough to the down pipe to keep it warm.
I am in a GC chassis and my cans had to be set lower because of the AC components that mount to the strut tower in that area.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:11 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by manitou View Post
I like the sound of this solution! I could plumb an AN line from the sump up to the can area and adapt that to the can! Hmmm!!
i just used a proper rubber fuel hose and worm drive hose clamps and then fed it up through the crossmember next to the steering rack. just make sure the hose is always angling down


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Old 12-16-2013, 10:25 PM   #168
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Is the Perrin can heated also? How does it compare to the Crawford in terms of build & function?
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:33 PM   #169
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I just looked at the Perrin website, that can looks real nice. It appears you'd be able to use steel braided lines on this setup if you want &. It's heated. Same idea as the Crawford for function. So right now I'm using a Grimmspeed but when I swap in my built motor it's going to be beneficial to switch to something like this at around 400whp? Or would the Grimmspeed be good enough at that power level?
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:24 PM   #170
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I do not recommend the Grimm Speed. The design does not work at any HP level, I had one of the first 10 beta test the units! Go Perrin or Crawford. The Perrin allows you to use AN lines if you'd like.
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:49 PM   #171
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Really? It doesn't work at all... that's pretty lame I have one then lol... well no point in taking it off and switching until I put in my built motor.

Doesn't it at least work like a giant catch can that you never have to empty though?
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:02 PM   #172
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It's physically not big enough and located in the wrong spot to do much of anything. I left the beta tester on my car too long and eventually blew out the seals on my VF most likely from excessive crank case pressure.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:47 AM   #173
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So a little test to see if I am not having enough ventilation. I pulled the hose off the AOS from the crank case. Left the drain in place. Left the connection for the heads since you all say a lot of oil sloshes around and I wanted to make sure it drained back.. I left the hose from the crank case pointed up and tied it to my fmic pipe. I cruised around for a while an did a pull from 3-6k.

Popped hood and saw a good amount of oil on the fmic pipe and on the fire wall. Not completely coated but a decent amount I have to freaking clean. I didn't notice much oil burning smell from my exhaust.

So it seems from this one short experiment that I might be on to something by adding more breathers to open the crank case up. But the oil splashing gives me the feeling that the blow by is pretty excessive. Thoughts????

http://www.flickr.com/photos/57450230@N02/11464888533

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Old 12-20-2013, 06:13 PM   #174
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Screw it. Just bought a moroso breather w a nice big opening on the top. Going to plumb the crank case to it and let the heads go to the AOS.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:13 PM   #175
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I'm getting a LOT of oil in the intake and fmic side under boost around 18+psi. After a normal day in boost, the next morning startup will have an oil puff for a couple of seconds. If I run little to no boost, the next day there will be no oil puff at startup. Its pretty embarassing considering the work I've put into the motor. (100mm JE with recommended ptw and ring clearances, manley rods, ej20k heads modified to solid bucket, supertech springs and valves, chambers modded to ej257 design per Larry's Machine) Currently the pcv system is stock though so the higher than normal boost + forged pistons clearances are contributing. I was actually hoping it was the vf22 in the beginning, but it never did this on the previous 2ltr block. My oil pressure is great at around 25-30 at idle and 80-90 at 2k+.

I would just run two catch cans but am worried they will fill too soon and I don't want to be emptying them regularly. I'm hoping the Perrin or Crawford V2 will do the job if I mount them high enough for the drain to work properly. One concern is how the Crawford deletes the pcv valve completely. Is it actually creating enough vacuum at idle with the single connection to the turbo inlet hose? I'm not sure how the Perrin is routed, can't find any instructions. The pics on Perrin's website don't show exactly how its connected.
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