Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 11, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-20-2013, 01:25 PM   #1
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default Failing MAF? Logs

I am having issues. My knock corrections are going crazy and the A/F learning corrections are showing that I'm really lean in the 10-49 g/s range. Failing MAF? Failing O2?

2002 Impreza WRX
16G turbo
Large APS TMIC
Cobb DP and catted exhaust
High flow injectors, flow matched
Manual boost control
Perrin Turbo inlet
TGV deletes
High tension head bolts
Pro tuned years ago

Any ideas?

Cruse log two days ago:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3-Y...it?usp=sharing

Learning View this morning:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3-Y...it?usp=sharing

Joshua
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by joshuajayg; 08-21-2013 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Fixed mod list.
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 08:43 AM   #2
nmlittlebigman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321409
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arrey, NM
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STi Sedan
WRB Stage II T.P. tuned

Default

I'll bump this for Joshua and add some more information.
He boost leak tested found and eliminated a large leak (replaced torn turbo inlet). He also found and eliminated a leak at one of his TGV deletes.

The car also has a clutch on it's way out and some noise and vibration from that may be triggering his knock sensor as well???? Everytime he goes w.o.t. his IAM drops like a rock. Detonation or noise I can't tell without a wideband. I suggested that he get a wideband but he has limited funds to work with right now.

Anybody want to take a stab at this?

Last edited by nmlittlebigman; 08-21-2013 at 08:53 AM.
nmlittlebigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 11:09 AM   #3
endrswrd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323908
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Dayton Ohio
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ ltd
ISM

Default

If it isnt the MAF, its the O2. But then again, he shouldnt have issues in WOT if it were the O2. I am going to guess its MAF related. Need updated learning view / logs from after fixing the leaks!
endrswrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 11:25 AM   #4
shunworm
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 332783
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Ogden, Utah
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
PSM

Default

I had a kinda same issue. But if it was tuned before you found the leak then now the fuel is way off
shunworm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 11:32 AM   #5
jthatch12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321715
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Philly/SJ
Vehicle:
03 Big 16G WRX
PSM

Default

Bypass the MAF by disconnecting it... See how the car runs due to force open loop, this will help determine a faulty MAF
jthatch12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 11:41 AM   #6
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

All the leaks are fixed. The turbo inlet and TGV are already fixed. I don't know if they were leaking when it was tuned, I really doubt they were. A lot of my IAM and A/F issues were happening before I found the leaks, that's actually why I went looking for leaks.

When I swapped the MAF with another one I had different fuel in the car so that didn't really tell me anything. I had accidentally filled up on 87 but added octane booster to save me from detonation. My A/F corrections were within 2% across the board before I swapped the MAF and they stayed there after I swapped it for a five minute drive.

My clutch has something goofy happening and I heard a rattle once under load but I haven't been able to reproduce it.

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 12:18 PM   #7
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Fixed my list of mods. 16G, not 14G and TGV deletes.
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 01:06 PM   #8
shunworm
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 332783
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Ogden, Utah
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
PSM

Default

Then no clue... but sure it sucks when you don't know what to fix though

Mine was still knocking and running lean when it was leaking. Then i fixed it, tuned it, and gapped the plugs and then fixed everything. But might not be the same as yours though. Good luck.
shunworm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 08:21 PM   #9
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

I will be pulling my tranny tonight since my clutch is acting up still. I'll post what I find.
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:03 PM   #10
shunworm
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 332783
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Ogden, Utah
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuajayg View Post
I will be pulling my tranny tonight since my clutch is acting up still. I'll post what I find.
How did it go? Was it flywheel that was causing the vibe
shunworm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:45 PM   #11
nmlittlebigman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321409
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arrey, NM
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STi Sedan
WRB Stage II T.P. tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shunworm View Post
How did it go? Was it flywheel that was causing the vibe
Don't think he got it done yet. He emailed me earlier on his way back from California. He said he would most likely pull it this Sunday. He also said that he purchased an A.E.M. wideband from one of the NASIOC vendors to be shipped.

Hopefully we will help him get it sorted out and post up on here.
nmlittlebigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 12:29 AM   #12
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Yeah, sadly didn't get it done. My cousin in Phoenix wasn't up to it and I wasted too much time to do it myself. It is the vegetable delivery time of week so hopefully Sunday I will have the transmission out.

Yep, AEM is ordered and on its way. I will install that while the transmission is out. I'll update when something promising happens.

I am home though! 700 miles to Cali, about 900 coming back through Phoenix. Got some sailing time in and experienced some good coffee.

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 06:23 PM   #13
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Alright, I'm somewhere between confused and annoyed. Here's a learning view I pulled today and a log as well... I've done nothing to the car but drive it.



Log:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3-Y...it?usp=sharing

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 06:25 PM   #14
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Just realized not everyone likes .csv files. Here's an .xls for viewing in google docs.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3-Y...it?usp=sharing

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #15
nmlittlebigman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321409
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arrey, NM
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STi Sedan
WRB Stage II T.P. tuned

Default

Your fuel trims are way better than they used to be although you are still slightly lean in "C" range. I am hoping all of that FLKC is noise from your failing clutch. Are you replacing the clutch tomorrow?

Also it's been a while since your car has kept IAM at 16.

Last edited by nmlittlebigman; 08-24-2013 at 06:52 PM.
nmlittlebigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 06:55 PM   #16
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Yeah, pretty good it is still at 16. I'm about to go for a drive up on the dirt road above my house. I will keep an eye on things. May not end up taking the clutch out. Been thinking about the exact circumstances when the clutch becomes "hard" and slips. Seems to be when it warms up around the master/slave cylinder area. May be a clogged compensator port in the master cylinder. Taking that route first tomorrow.

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 05:59 PM   #17
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Removed and cleaned both the master and slave cylinders for the clutch. They were dirty for sure. Also turns out I have a master cylinder for a NA car. Oh well, no big deal there.



Checked my PCV valve, it is fine. Found a light spray of oil on my turbo-intercooler hose. Still trying to figure out where that came from. Since I was there I decided to take the tranny out. When I removed the exhaust I found that my cat was coming apart.



I was also missing the two nuts that attach the transmission to the cross member. I will be replacing those. The clutch is fine. The rivet depth is .45mm with the service limit being .30mm. There is localized glazing on the pressure plate and flywheel. I am going to get them checked for warp and will probably get the flywheel turned tomorrow.







So... looks like a mix of rattly cat, missing transmission mount nuts, and a dirty hydraulic clutch system accompanied by a likely failing MAF and the two inlet leaks I had found (inlet tube and TGV delete). I'll be finding a used MAF tomorrow as well. My AEM UEGO is at the post office waiting for me so I will install that while I have my downpipe removed.

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 06:58 PM   #18
nmlittlebigman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321409
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arrey, NM
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STi Sedan
WRB Stage II T.P. tuned

Default

^^^ Been busy today! The light coating of oil in your intercooler hose is blowby and normal.
nmlittlebigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 07:17 PM   #19
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

This oil was on the outside, Brent. Seemed to be fairly consistent too... Not coming from any specific spot.
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 08:32 PM   #20
nmlittlebigman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321409
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arrey, NM
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STi Sedan
WRB Stage II T.P. tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuajayg View Post
This oil was on the outside, Brent. Seemed to be fairly consistent too... Not coming from any specific spot.

Well you did have that huge rip in your turbo inlet. The pcv is plumbed in there where oil vapor can enter you intake tract and collect. Since your bypass hose is plumbed in there too you can see boost there on throttle lift and... voila...oil spray out into the engine bay. All mere conjecture dear Watson and a wild a$$ guess.
nmlittlebigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 09:01 PM   #21
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

No, because I cleaned that entire area really well before reassembling everything. It was clean when it went back together. I'm going to look some more but it may just be an anomaly.

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 10:48 PM   #22
nmlittlebigman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 321409
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arrey, NM
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STi Sedan
WRB Stage II T.P. tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuajayg View Post
No, because I cleaned that entire area really well before reassembling everything. It was clean when it went back together. I'm going to look some more but it may just be an anomaly.

Joshua
Maybe pcv has a hairline crack or not seated properly?
nmlittlebigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 11:04 PM   #23
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Might be a lightly leaking hose. I pulled all the lines, the PCV valve (which is actually in the throttle body) and the T which is on the block. The old lines are on there snugish but not exactly tight. It might just be the old, expanded rubber hoses not sealing as good as they should when the BPV opens and pressurizes the turbo inlet slightly. No cracks or split hoses though. I'm going to check the intercooler and intercooler pipe again in the morning just to make sure they are kosher. Then the flywheel work, AEM install, and sticking everything back on the car. MAF will be here Wednesday.

Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 11:21 PM   #24
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Everything is back together.
Got a (supposedly) good MAF sensor installed.
Turned the flywheel.
Clutch disc was still good.
Buffed pressure plate.
Cleaned chunky nastyness out of catalytic converter.
Replaced a few missing nuts/bolt.

Went for a drive, logged a lot and nothing tragic happened! A/F learning was all snazzy with the largest number being <2. Logged a third gear pull with no knock, no IAM drop, nothing.

Then I cruised on the interstate for a while and knock started showing up again. I'm sitting at 15 IAM, lots of FLKC, and A/F learning is high (12 at idle). I am pretty sure I don't have a vacuum leak. I suspect more of my catalytic converter came apart. I can hear a little noise when I release my clutch and things shimmy a little. Tomorrow my AEM UEGO comes in so hopefully I can get installed quick like. I may also go fill up on E85 soon and reflash. We will figure out if I am getting any legitimate knock.

LV at the end of today. The -4 cell has had the most FLKC the entire drive today.


Joshua
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 11:49 PM   #25
joshuajayg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 323310
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: The desert
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Silver

Default

Just checked my cat... no particulates. Next step is to troubleshoot my AFR.
joshuajayg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.