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Old 10-04-2002, 10:25 AM   #1
RiftsWRX
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Default OK... my little UTEC contribution.

The following is a data log I did from last night to talk about an issue that I'm having... It's not really an issue.. but it is.. it's kinda cool, but it isn't... anyways...

Code:
    RPM     MAP     MAF     TPS    Site   Count     AFR   Ign#1   Inj#1     Ign    Fuel   Boost     MAF
     705    -9.6     1.3       0       0       0    14.6    20.3       6   ECU.     -4.8   ECU.      1.2
     704    -9.6     1.3       0       0       0    14.6    20.1       5   ECU.     -4.8   ECU.      1.2
     730    -9.6     1.3       0       0       0    14.6    19.6       6   ECU.     -4.8   ECU.      1.2
     692    -9.6     1.3       0       0       0    14.7    19.1       5   ECU.     -4.8   ECU.      1.1
     722    -9.6     1.2       0       0       0    14.6    18.9       5   ECU.     -4.8   ECU.      1.3
    1053    -5.5       2      99      10       0    13.8    19.6       5      40    -5.6   ECU.      1.9
    1800    -1.4     2.2      98      10       0    12.2    29.3       7      40    -5.6     100     2.2
    2252    -1.4     2.4      97      10       0    15.1    34.1      10      40      -5     100     2.3
    2443    -1.2     2.5      98      10       0    13.8    33.7      11      40      -5      90     2.4
    2558    -0.6     2.6      98      10       0    13.4    32.7      12      40    -5.4      90     2.4
    2612       0     2.7      98      10       0    13.4    32.3      13      40    -5.4      90     2.5
    2701     0.4     2.7      98      10       0    13.6      32      14      40    -5.4      90     2.5
    2780     1.3     2.7      98      10       0    13.1    31.5      14      40    -7.2      57     2.6
    2898     1.7     2.9      99      10       0    14.1    31.2      16      40    -7.2      57     2.6
    3072     2.5     2.9      98      20       0    14.4    29.6      18      40    -7.2      57     2.7
    3264     3.5       3      98      20       0    13.5    28.2      21      40    -7.2      57     2.9
    3523     4.7     3.2      98      30       0    13.3    26.7      25      37    -7.2      57       3
    3840     6.6     3.4      98      40       0    12.7    23.4      31      33    -7.2      57     3.4
    4203     8.8     3.6      97      50       0   rich     17.8      44      27    -7.2      57     3.6
    4591    12.3     3.9      96      70       0   rich       16      63      19    -6.8      54     3.7
    4990    15.9       4      96      90       0   rich     20.4      73      21    -6.4      44     3.8
    5402      17     4.2      97      90       0   rich     22.1      79      22    -6.4      30     3.9
    5747    16.4     4.2      96      90       0   rich       23      84      23    -6.4      30       4
    6230    15.7     4.2      96      80       0   rich     24.3      90      26    -6.6      30       4
    6626    14.5     4.3      95      80       1   rich     27.9      93      27    -6.6      30       4
    6973    13.7     4.3      95      70       0   rich     28.5      91      30    -6.6      30       4
    6973    14.5     4.3      97      80       0   rich     28.4      91      27    -6.6      30       4
    5175    14.5     4.1      97      80       0    15.2    20.5      91      20    -6.6      54     3.6
    4714    13.3     3.8      97      70       0   rich     17.7      57      19    -6.8      54     3.6
    4803    13.7       4      97      70       0   rich     17.6      65      21    -6.6      54     3.6
    5042    14.9     4.1      97      80       0   rich     20.2      74      23    -6.6      44     3.8
    5081    15.5       4      96      80       0   rich     21.3      76      23    -6.6      44     3.8
    5316    14.7     4.1      97      80       0   rich     21.9      79      24    -6.6      30     3.8
    5420    14.7     4.2      98      80       0   rich     22.4      82      24    -6.6      30     3.8
    5509    15.1     4.2      96      80       0   rich     22.2      84      25    -6.6      30     3.9
    5611    13.7     4.2      97      70       0   rich     22.9      86      26    -6.6      30     3.9
    5737    14.1     4.2      97      80       0   rich       23      88      25    -6.6      30     3.9
    5858    15.9     4.2      96      90       0   rich     23.3      91      23    -6.4      30       4
    5995    15.9     4.2      95      90       0   rich     23.7      93      23    -6.4      30       4
    6093    16.4     4.3      96      90       0   rich       24      95      23    -6.4      30       4
    6161    17.8     4.3      96     100       0   rich     23.8      96      21    -6.4      30       4
    6337    17.8     4.4      97     100       0   rich     26.2      97      21    -6.4      30       4
    6373    16.1     4.3      97      90       0   rich     26.6      97      24    -6.4      30       4
    6693    15.1     4.3      96      80       0   rich     27.1      97      27    -6.6      30       4
    6435    15.7     4.4      98      80       0   rich     27.1      97      27    -6.6      30     4.1
    5065    15.5     4.1      97      80       0    13.2    20.7      97      20    -6.6      54     3.6
    4748    14.1     3.8      97      80       0   rich     17.6      61      20    -6.6      54     3.6
    4837    13.7       4      97      70       0   rich     17.6      68      21    -6.6      54     3.7
    4975    14.3       4      97      80       0   rich     18.4      74      20    -6.6      54     3.8
    5035    16.1     4.1      97      90       0   rich     19.5      78      21    -6.4      44     3.8
    5012    17.4       4      97      90       0   rich     19.5      77      21    -6.4      44     3.7
    5081    16.8       4      97      90       0   rich       20      75      21    -6.4      44     3.8
    5089    16.1     4.1      97      90       0   rich     19.9      75      21    -6.4      44     3.7
    5020    16.4       4      96      90       0   rich     20.6      76      21    -6.4      44     3.8
    5112    15.7       4      97      80       0   rich     21.4      77      23    -6.6      44     3.8
    5192    15.7     4.1      97      80       0   rich     21.7      78      23    -6.6      44     3.8
    5274    16.1     4.1      96      90       0   rich     21.8      80      21    -6.4      44     3.8
    5341    15.5     4.1      95      80       0   rich     21.6      81      24    -6.6      30     3.8
    5385    14.5     4.1      92      80       0   rich     22.3      82      24    -6.6      30     3.8
    5367    14.9     4.1      92      80       0   rich     21.9      83      24    -6.6      30     3.8
    5393    16.4     4.1      92      90       0   rich     21.8      86      22    -6.4      30     3.9
    5428    14.9     4.2      92      80       0   rich     21.8      86      24    -6.6      30     3.9
    5482    14.5     4.2      92      80       0   rich       22      87      25    -6.6      30     3.9
    5564      17     4.3      94      90       0   rich     21.8      88      22    -6.4      30     3.9
    5546    16.8     4.2      91      90       0   rich     21.4      91      22    -6.4      30     3.9
    5592    16.6     4.2      91      90       0   rich     21.2      93      22    -6.4      30       4
    5611    16.4     4.2      91      90       0   rich     21.1      93      22    -6.4      30       4
    5574    16.1     4.3      92      90       0   rich     22.1      94      23    -6.4      30       4
    5777    17.4     4.2      91      90       0   rich     21.5      95      22    -6.4      30       4
    5757    16.1     4.3      91      90       0   rich     21.9      94      23    -6.4      30       4
    5688    15.7     4.3      92      80       0   rich     22.3      94      26    -6.6      30       4
    6172    17.4     4.3      91      90       0   rich     21.9      94      23    -6.4      30       4
    5858    16.4     4.3      91      90       0   rich     22.1      94      23    -6.4      30       4
    5878    17.2     4.3      92      90       0   rich       22      96      23    -6.4      30       4
    5889      20     4.3      91     100       0   rich       22      96      20    -6.4      30       4
    5920    20.2     4.3      92     100       0   rich     22.2      96      20    -6.4      30       4
    6006    18.4     4.3      90     100       1   rich     22.2      96      20    -6.4      30       4


The interesting thing to note, is how the dynamics of the automatic are different from the manuals. Take a look at my 3rd gear pull.. I'm only running 30% duty cycles and I'm actually BUILDING boost (creeping) There is just so much exhaust velocity from the load of the auto's ratio's, that I'm going to have to decrease duty cycle much sooner in an attempt to get control of the turbo.

FYI... I never had this problem with a Unichip

Uber tuning + VF34 + LOTS of exhaust velocity = boost creep. If I keep tuning like this I'm going to need an external wastegate soon!

This explains why I have always been able to achieve boost levels (all mods being equal) that the 5MT's couldn't imagine..

I should add... that if you look at 1st and 2nd gears, they ARE tapering like I'm asking them too... But 3rd is LOOOOOONG on an auto... 70-110 MPH... so as a result there is LOTS'O load and tons of exhaust gas!

It's good that I have my map dialed in pretty well.. as can be seen I'm running some nicely advanced timing for the taper (almost 30 degrees) and the MAP is setup to properly handle the boost creep for now. (22 degrees)

This log is on Mobil 93

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 10-04-2002, 01:12 PM   #2
TubeDriver
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Is there a TXS Unichip that is specially designed for the 4EAT or do they use a special program? I am waiting a bit to see how the Utec works with 4EATs before placing my order.
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Old 10-04-2002, 01:16 PM   #3
RiftsWRX
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Well.... what specifically is it that your waiting for?

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Old 10-04-2002, 01:32 PM   #4
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I have a couple questions about interpreting the logs:

What is the difference between Ign#1 and Ign?

Why are there two MAF signals?

What units is the Boost column in? And what units is the Fuel column in?

Is Inj#1 duty cycle?

Thanks a log
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Old 10-04-2002, 01:38 PM   #5
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Can you set the boost to read off of the factory ecu at all RPMs?
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Old 10-04-2002, 01:38 PM   #6
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the only thing on the unichip that is made just for the auto is the harness,i was running the same maps on my auto as the manual guys,i think phil is going to ask riftswrx if he can program his map into my utec.thats the only way ill run a automatic program.
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Old 10-04-2002, 01:47 PM   #7
RiftsWRX
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsarfaty
I have a couple questions about interpreting the logs:

What is the difference between Ign#1 and Ign?

Why are there two MAF signals?

What units is the Boost column in? And what units is the Fuel column in?

Is Inj#1 duty cycle?

Thanks a log
__
Josh
Ign#1 is what the stock computer wants to do (isn't it interesting seeing just how erratic it is?)

Ign is what your telling it TO DO...

The left MAF is what the sensor is actually getting... the right one has the fueling correction % applied, and that is what is actually displayed to the ECU for fueling.

Boost is in Duty cycle right now (open loop) If you wanna see the actual PSI I'm running, look over at the MAP column on the left.

Fuel is percentage of MAF voltage dropped.

I'm assuming it is... which means I have a bunch of leaning out left to do... I am screwing with LFT and SFT, and it reflects in that column.. .typically I'm in the 70-80% categories.

Hope that helped.

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Old 10-04-2002, 01:57 PM   #8
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If I have the brainpower to operate the Utec safely without nuking my engine. The options/readouts are a bit intimidating.

Quote:
Originally posted by RiftsWRX
Well.... what specifically is it that your waiting for?

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Old 10-04-2002, 02:01 PM   #9
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Default Rifts timing map

Jorge, can I assume that the UTEC timing map on your webpage reflects the current "18 psi 93 octane" map you are using now? Do you use 40 deg down low at your converter flash point? And lastly, why do we still have to taper timing back at ~3krpms? Because of specific turbo response? Thanks for the info!
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Old 10-04-2002, 02:03 PM   #10
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OK, so i can't just buy a used Unichip from a 5sp eh (due to harness compatibility issues)? If thats the case and I have to buy a new chip then I will definitely pony up the extra 300 for the Utec nad pass on the Unichip. Seeing as the OEM maps are different between 4EAT and 5sp, it makes sense to develope custom maps for 4EATs for the utec. Jorges maps are not going to work for me though, as my car will only have TXS uppipe and axle back exhaust which is a shame because there is noone I can think of that knows the WRX 4EAT as well

Quote:
Originally posted by bliz
the only thing on the unichip that is made just for the auto is the harness,i was running the same maps on my auto as the manual guys,i think phil is going to ask riftswrx if he can program his map into my utec.thats the only way ill run a automatic program.
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Old 10-04-2002, 02:14 PM   #11
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Default Re: Rifts timing map

Quote:
Originally posted by n2xlr8n
Jorge, can I assume that the UTEC timing map on your webpage reflects the current "18 psi 93 octane" map you are using now? Do you use 40 deg down low at your converter flash point? And lastly, why do we still have to taper timing back at ~3krpms? Because of specific turbo response? Thanks for the info!
Oh no... that was nothing more then an example of how you could proceed... my maps evolve DAILY as I'm trying new things... you know... kinda like breaking in a good couch... you gotta immerse yourself in it and try different things.

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Old 10-04-2002, 02:15 PM   #12
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unfortunately ive been missing much of the utec saga. as far as stock turbo tuning is concerned, how much of a benefit will it have?
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Old 10-04-2002, 02:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by TubeDriver
OK, so i can't just buy a used Unichip from a 5sp eh (due to harness compatibility issues)? If thats the case and I have to buy a new chip then I will definitely pony up the extra 300 for the Utec nad pass on the Unichip. Seeing as the OEM maps are different between 4EAT and 5sp, it makes sense to develope custom maps for 4EATs for the utec. Jorges maps are not going to work for me though, as my car will only have TXS uppipe and axle back exhaust which is a shame because there is noone I can think of that knows the WRX 4EAT as well

It's really not that large an issue. I'm in communication with them DAILY... as a result they are getting my maps, noting the trends I'm figuring out with the 4EAT, and I'm sure building an archive of things that they can apply to a map which has the same mods, but on a 5MT...

Result? Pretty damn close to what you'll want to start with...

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Old 10-04-2002, 02:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by IgotWRXed
unfortunately ive been missing much of the utec saga. as far as stock turbo tuning is concerned, how much of a benefit will it have?
On a COMPLETELY bone stock car... stage nothing....

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 20-40 WHP increase.

But most importantly... a KILLER mid range (power under the curve) increase!

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Old 10-04-2002, 02:36 PM   #15
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20-40 WHP!!! So with an uppipe and axleback figure 45 WHP increase, with a fat midrange

Quote:
Originally posted by RiftsWRX


On a COMPLETELY bone stock car... stage nothing....

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 20-40 WHP increase.

But most importantly... a KILLER mid range (power under the curve) increase!

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Old 10-04-2002, 02:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Rifts timing map

Quote:
Originally posted by RiftsWRX


Oh no... that was nothing more then an example of how you could proceed... my maps evolve DAILY as I'm trying new things... you know... kinda like breaking in a good couch... you gotta immerse yourself in it and try different things.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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okay, thanks.
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Old 10-04-2002, 02:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by TubeDriver
20-40 WHP!!! So with an uppipe and axleback figure 45 WHP increase, with a fat midrange

Or it could be 5... point is.. it's up to your tuning.

You could give me 1 WHP from stock... but if I could make 90% of my torque by 2200 RPM... that's pretty damn nice...

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Old 10-04-2002, 03:17 PM   #18
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Hey Jorge,

Cool to see two of us posting log's and questions. I learn something new EVERY time I read one of your posts, IGN#1 vs IGN as an example:-).

I notice your cranking out 40 degrees of timing, Just buy leaning things out on my car we got 40hp to the wheels, and we only barely touched the timing. Thats good news for me and you I think. If your still very rich (I assume you are from my dyno runs and my base map) then there is a big chunk of power just waiting for you there. Same for me but in regards to timing, I have a feeling I can advance it and get a good bit more power out, which again is a good thing.

About your boost creep. It's intresting to note that mine was creeping on the Dyno at first and seemed to have flatlined at 20PSI even though my maps are set for 17PSI. As for the difference in the manual vs the auto you know alot more than me to be sure. I ended up just going with 20psi and tuning at that point of max boost. But your's is creeping ALOT.

I assume your trying to run ~17PSI? Now, that is the same as me however I consistantly will pull to 20 throughout, not just on the top end. I guess you've played with the boost maps but can you not tune around your top side?

Code:
 RPM  0%    10%   20%   30%   40%   50%   60%   70%   80%   90%   100%
  500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
  750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 2000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 2250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   95    95    95    95
 2500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   95    95    95    95
 2750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   95    95    95    95
 3000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   50    50    50    50
 3250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   46.8  46.8  46.8  46.8
 3500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   46.8  46.8  46.8  46.8
 3750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   43.5  43.5  43.5  43.5
 4000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   43.5  43.5  43.5  43.5
 4250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   44.5  44.5  44.5  44.5
 4500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   45.9  45.9  45.9  45.9
 4750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   48.6  48.6  48.6  48.6
 5000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   48    48    48    48
 5250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   46    46    46    46
 5500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   43.5  43.5  43.5  43.5
 5750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 7000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
The above being a base map, maybe tune in the load threasholds under the various load settings and pull it that way? I'm making a quasi guess here but I would think you should be able to do it like that. At what load point does the creep occur? Maybe at that point on the boost map start manualy dialing it out?

Shawn
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Old 10-04-2002, 03:38 PM   #19
RiftsWRX
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Join Date: Apr 2001
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Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

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Quote:
Originally posted by DiMensionX
Hey Jorge,

Cool to see two of us posting log's and questions. I learn something new EVERY time I read one of your posts, IGN#1 vs IGN as an example:-).

I notice your cranking out 40 degrees of timing, Just buy leaning things out on my car we got 40hp to the wheels, and we only barely touched the timing. Thats good news for me and you I think. If your still very rich (I assume you are from my dyno runs and my base map) then there is a big chunk of power just waiting for you there. Same for me but in regards to timing, I have a feeling I can advance it and get a good bit more power out, which again is a good thing.

About your boost creep. It's intresting to note that mine was creeping on the Dyno at first and seemed to have flatlined at 20PSI even though my maps are set for 17PSI. As for the difference in the manual vs the auto you know alot more than me to be sure. I ended up just going with 20psi and tuning at that point of max boost. But your's is creeping ALOT.

I assume your trying to run ~17PSI? Now, that is the same as me however I consistantly will pull to 20 throughout, not just on the top end. I guess you've played with the boost maps but can you not tune around your top side?

Code:
 RPM  0%    10%   20%   30%   40%   50%   60%   70%   80%   90%   100%
  500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
  750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 1750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 2000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   100   100   100   100
 2250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   95    95    95    95
 2500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   95    95    95    95
 2750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   95    95    95    95
 3000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   50    50    50    50
 3250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   46.8  46.8  46.8  46.8
 3500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   46.8  46.8  46.8  46.8
 3750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   43.5  43.5  43.5  43.5
 4000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   43.5  43.5  43.5  43.5
 4250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   44.5  44.5  44.5  44.5
 4500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   45.9  45.9  45.9  45.9
 4750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   48.6  48.6  48.6  48.6
 5000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   48    48    48    48
 5250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   46    46    46    46
 5500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   43.5  43.5  43.5  43.5
 5750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6250 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6500 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 6750 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
 7000 ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   ECU   42.5  42.5  42.5  42.5
The above being a base map, maybe tune in the load threasholds under the various load settings and pull it that way? I'm making a quasi guess here but I would think you should be able to do it like that. At what load point does the creep occur? Maybe at that point on the boost map start manualy dialing it out?

Shawn
Here's your chance to learn something again..

the boost control system uses TPS for load.. if it was MAP based per'se I could do what you said... but the logical use is TPS based, which is 100% column for me, all the time.

See... it be easy for me to tune 3rd to do what I'd like it to do... the question is, (the thing with open loop control....) how will it affect the rest of the gears? Case in point.... 1st and second gear are doing what I want... 17 PSI to 14-15 PSI taper... but 3rd just flies....

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 10-04-2002, 04:49 PM   #20
DiMensionX
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Member#: 23517
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA (Alpharetta)
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
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Between my newbie questions and your, Nathan's, Phil's, and Pete's advice we may have a freaking online manual here pretty soon:-).


Shawn (Learning lot's of new stuff)
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