Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday August 23, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-03-2013, 07:18 PM   #26
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balantz View Post
Well, ****, what do you expect when the government throws gobs of money at the fossil fuel industry for 120 years? Shift half of the subsidies from the oil companies to battery/charging R&D and see what happens in a few years. It's total crap to say that electric cars can't compete with ICE vehicles. If the playing field was leveled (especially from the get go), it would likely be a different story.
IF frogs had guns they would shoot all the snakes...

We can play the if the... game all day. Our entire way of life was built on petroleum. So you should not begrudge those subsidies too much. You owe your very way of life to them. From the house you live in, to the food you eat, was made cheaper by those subsidies...

You cannot PR or market that away. It will take decades to turn this ship a few degrees. EV are viable to some either as toys, or others a political statement, or others in rare cases they actually will make financial sense as a back up or even daily driver.

When the country needed a plentiful, energy dense, ready supply of energy, Petroleum came to answer where the EV failed. Now that petroleum has built an entire country alternatives can start to be considered, but they are standing on the shoulders of giants.

Petroleum giants.

You should be thanking the heavens for petrol and all its wonderful power it gives. It will be around long enough to buy us some time to bring up alternative energies that do not suck. (like wind)
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:51 PM   #27
upnygimp
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 47036
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: On a Hill, not in NESIC
Vehicle:
10 TBHOG
93 Hilux

Default

So right now what's the biggest bang for the buck?
upnygimp is offline  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:25 AM   #28
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
It will be around long enough to buy us some time to bring up alternative energies that do not suck. (like wind)
Correct... wind doesn't suck. It blows.

--kC
KC is offline  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:33 AM   #29
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Ba da bum!

SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:12 AM   #30
Mr. G
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 264069
Join Date: Nov 2010
Chapter/Region: South East
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza 2.5i
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balantz View Post
Well, ****, what do you expect when the government throws gobs of money at the fossil fuel industry for 120 years? Shift half of the subsidies from the oil companies to battery/charging R&D and see what happens in a few years. It's total crap to say that electric cars can't compete with ICE vehicles. If the playing field was leveled (especially from the get go), it would likely be a different story.

Did they choose to give more subsidies to oil and gas because it actually works most of the time, in most situations, unlike renewables? Most renewables, when compared to more traditional energy sources, can only do the job they are designed for in "perfect conditions". When put in the real world they are limited when you look at their more traditional counterpart. Let's not throw out the ICE until there is something that works as well. I would love to get 100 mpg, but not at the expense of destroying what it's like to drive a car with some performance.
Mr. G is offline  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:29 AM   #31
Mechie3
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 120152
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indy
Default

I was in Asia the past couple weeks and Thailand and Vietnam relied heavily on single cylinder scooters for individual travel (or sometimes parents and two kids!! ). Bikes were everywhere and got excellent mpg without taking up much space. That's part of our real problem. We've become used to the idea that cars are and should be large. High mpg and sustainable fuel resources are much more readily obtained if we didn't drive 4000 lb suvs. Even evs will have longer ranges if they're lighter.
Mechie3 is offline  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:48 AM   #32
RealDealTarheel
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142447
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Purgatory, USA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Banged Up Blue

Default

Crash test standards have gotten us used to the idea that cars should be big, that and the fact that our population is physically larger than the Thai population. Also the value on human life in Thailand is not the same as it is in the US, so until people get used to the idea that you have to take some responsibility for your actions, watch what you're doing and learn to drive the things you describe will never happen. And let's not get started on the money that insurance companies don't want to pay out for the increase in fatalities that the Thai philosophy on transportation would cause.
RealDealTarheel is offline  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:55 AM   #33
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
so until people get used to the idea that you have to take some responsibility for your actions,




Not in the US of Its Everybodies fault buy my own.

My kid is fat, Its somebody else's fault
I live in a crappy neighborhood, Its somebody else's fault
I do not have a good job, Its somebody else's fault
I dropped out of school, Its somebody else's fault
I spilled coffee on myself, Its somebody else's fault
I did not wake up on time, Its somebody else's fault
I did not see that kid before I backed over him, Its somebody else's fault
I cannot lose weight, Its somebody else's fault
I am 100k dollars in debt, Its somebody else's fault


NO sir, here there is always somebody else to blame.
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 09-05-2013, 11:15 AM   #34
upnygimp
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 47036
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: On a Hill, not in NESIC
Vehicle:
10 TBHOG
93 Hilux

Default

The problem is that people are stuck on the notion that an electric car will never work for them, until it can go 1500 miles on a charge. The reality is that 95% of the time it will fit into their lifestyle just fine. I think that's why you see these stupid cheap leases, they want to get the cars on the streets, get some word of mouth out and hope that enough people can figure out that it's something they can use.

BMW has it right with the i3- offering a certain number of rentals per year to make up for the short range for road trips, etc but the price may be a touch high to get people to bite.
upnygimp is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 02:33 PM   #35
Mechie3
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 120152
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indy
Default

I didn't mean to imply we'd ever move to a society as crazy (traffic/scooter wise) as thailand and vietnam. Just that vehicle size dictates a lot of constraints on mpg and Empg simply because of a societies conceptions of what a vehicle should be.

I actually asked my wife if they had insurance in Vietnam thinking mostly about bikes getting stolen. She laughed and said "no, no one here values life".
Mechie3 is offline  
Old 05-26-2014, 08:15 AM   #36
torquemada
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0O71MS20140521

Quote:
Fiat Chrysler CEO: Please don't buy Fiat 500e electric car

May 21 (Reuters) - Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne has a request for potential buyers of the automaker's Fiat 500e electric car: Don't buy it. He's tired of losing money.

Speaking at a conference in Washington on Wednesday, Marchionne said Tesla Motors Inc was the only company making money on electric cars and that was because of the higher price point for its Model S sedan. Decrying the federal and state mandates that push manufacturers to build electric cars, Marchionne said he hoped to sell the minimum number of 500e cars possible.

"I hope you don't buy it because every time I sell one it costs me $14,000," he said to the audience at the Brookings Institution about the 500e. "I'm honest enough to tell you that."

The gasoline-powered Fiat 500 starts at almost $17,300 including delivery charges, while the 500e starts at $32,650 before federal tax credits. Consumers are not willing to pay a price that covers Fiat's costs so it loses money on the 500e.

Through April, the automaker sold 11,514 of the 500 cars in the United States this year, down about 15 percent from the same period last year. The company does not break out 500e sales.

"I will sell the (minimum) of what I need to sell and not one more," Marchionne said of the 500e.

Chrysler filed for bankruptcy in 2009 and received a U.S taxpayer-funded bailout. Italy's Fiat took over the U.S. automaker at the time and completed the buyout earlier this year.

"If we just build those vehicles, we'll be back asking ... in Washington for a second bailout because we'll be bankrupt," Marchionne said of electric cars.

The state of California's zero-emission vehicle mandates and federal fuel efficiency requirements for 2025 were pushing the need for electric cars, but Marchionne said he would prefer the U.S. Department of Energy simply set targets and let the automakers achieve them in their own way.

Marchionne said for the company in 2025 to maintain the same type of U.S. sales mix it has now, hybrid vehicles that are powered by both gasoline and electric engines will make up more than half if not close to three-quarters of sales.

Electric car sales have been held back by inadequate driving range in the eyes of many consumers and high sticker prices. (Additional reporting by Ben Klayman in Detroit; Editing by Cynthia Osterman)
torquemada is offline  
Old 05-26-2014, 09:36 AM   #37
a2cpc
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10139
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indy/Broad Ripple
Vehicle:
9&11 WRX 5Dr
DGM/Silver

Default

I had a long talk with a GM rep at the Indy 500. He said for the consumer, this is a great time to buy a Volt. Not great for GM. But he was able to convince me that I should at least look at one for my next purchase. I am going to test drive one this week. Here is why. I drive 10k or less a year. Realistically, well over 90% is less than 15 miles at a time. The only consistently longer trip is to the airport, about 17 miles made 30-45 times a year. The few trips I would have to make over that would require gas, but the Volt still gets 37Mpgs Highway and has a 380 mile range. My would have a 2011 WRX for her to drive. The Volt I like would come in around $37k before rebates as low as $27k after. I figure a yearly gas savings around $1500(just for gas). I am looking into what the local home charging rates are, but have heard some really great rumors, not only about rates but running a separate 220V service to my garage that would be charges separately...for free. There is just a lot that interests me, of course that might change next week, not because of the test drive, but because I change my mind about cars almost every week.
a2cpc is offline  
Old 05-26-2014, 10:38 AM   #38
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 M3, N54 135i
In another life: REX8

Default

Does anyone factor in the costs of their balls when buying an ev?

I keed i keed. Obviously, it's the future, and if taking advantage of subsidies sells more, well, hopefully they move enough to make them a financially viable option in the near future. I dont know though. Seems to me that if a car, or type.of car, is going to gain mainstream traction, appeal, viability, etc. it needs to do it on its own two feet, without all the subsidies.

If its about saving money, how about a used Civic or Camry? If it's about the environment, how about the amount.or.energy, including oil, used to produce the car vs. a conventional alternative?

Last edited by SoapBox; 05-26-2014 at 10:57 AM.
SoapBox is offline  
Old 05-26-2014, 12:12 PM   #39
a2cpc
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10139
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indy/Broad Ripple
Vehicle:
9&11 WRX 5Dr
DGM/Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
If its about saving money, how about a used Civic or Camry? If it's about the environment, how about the amount.or.energy, including oil, used to produce the car vs. a conventional alternative?
That is all it will be for me if I were to buy...After trade in, incentives and rebates I should have a $10K car. Add on the cost of the HD Charger(+-$500) and a warranty that is pretty good with an 8yr/100,000 mile battery coverage. I think it could be very cost effective. Probably wouldn't hold true in all cases.
a2cpc is offline  
Old 05-26-2014, 01:30 PM   #40
sir_wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71549
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mid-Atlantic Region
Default

Child safety seats is another reason larger SUVs and "minivans" are popular for anyone having more than one toddlers in the household.
sir_wagon is offline  
Old 05-26-2014, 02:40 PM   #41
legav05
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 51287
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2005

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Does anyone factor in the costs of their balls when buying an ev?
...
a used Civic or Camry?
...
What, you don't think you have to turn in your balls when you buy a Camry?
legav05 is offline  
Old 05-26-2014, 10:07 PM   #42
sxotty
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 95600
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_wagon View Post
Child safety seats is another reason larger SUVs and "minivans" are popular for anyone having more than one toddlers in the household.
Well 2 fit in an impreza just fine. Any more though would be tough.
sxotty is offline  
Old 05-28-2014, 07:30 AM   #43
torquemada
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128484
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Germany
Vehicle:
2006 EDM WRX STI
WRB

Default

torquemada is offline  
Old 05-28-2014, 08:03 AM   #44
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Yeah, that's legal.

Nothing like having an exposed gas tank in a rear end collision. Pinto II?

--kC
KC is offline  
Old 05-28-2014, 08:41 AM   #45
blubaru703
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71380
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: International
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Yeah, that's legal.

Nothing like having an exposed gas tank in a rear end collision. Pinto II?

--kC
Yeah, but it'd be a spectacular explosion!
blubaru703 is online now  
Old 05-28-2014, 09:17 AM   #46
SoapBox
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 204578
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Philadelphia
Vehicle:
S54 M3, N54 135i
In another life: REX8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by legav05 View Post
What, you don't think you have to turn in your balls when you buy a Camry?
True. I suppose you'd have to factor in the cost in those purchases as well. Although, personally, there's something more manly about even a Camry than a Prius. But I wouldn't expect others to share that view.
SoapBox is offline  
Old 05-28-2014, 09:46 AM   #47
justincredible
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83633
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: The Mountains
Vehicle:
2012 bright green
box

Default

Once batery power reaches a point where most EVs can go 300 miles on a charge and solar panels can charge said EV in a couple hours I would love an electric Wrangler.

Instant torque an if you're foolish enough to drive until empty in the middle of nowhere, all you'd have to do is take lunch and explore on foot for a bit and you could come back to a ready to go vehicle.
justincredible is offline  
Old 05-28-2014, 11:00 AM   #48
Pre
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
CEO- Wagon Mafia

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Does anyone factor in the costs of their balls when buying an ev?

I keed i keed. Obviously, it's the future, and if taking advantage of subsidies sells more, well, hopefully they move enough to make them a financially viable option in the near future. I dont know though. Seems to me that if a car, or type.of car, is going to gain mainstream traction, appeal, viability, etc. it needs to do it on its own two feet, without all the subsidies.

If its about saving money, how about a used Civic or Camry? If it's about the environment, how about the amount.or.energy, including oil, used to produce the car vs. a conventional alternative?

1. The cost of your balls. You are assuming everyone gives a **** what you or anyone else thinks. A man who is confident with his nutsacks isn't going to give a good damn what anyone thinks. I think you'll find the ball problem dudes buy GT's and other muscle cars to compensate for something. I kid, I kid. For all we know the man/woman driving the EV has a GTR at home in the garage, or a Viper.

2. Subsidies. Do you honestly think oil is subsidy free? You know better than that. If anyone is going to go hurt mangina on that you need to start talking about oil subsidies first, which have been in place for I don't know how long.....decades! Some EV buyer getting a break, well, I think you need to bitch about big oil before Joe EV in Kali getting a tax break.

3. It's about $. I leased a leaf, because they are blowing them out for nothing. $200 a month and either free power (using charging stations available to me for free) or f'in cheap power at home (not to mention b2b warranty, no maintenance, etc). I just went from .078 kwh to .091 due to an increase in e rates this year. That's a fraction of the cost of using oil to get around. For me about $1.80 to go 80 miles on a traditional outlet. When I go 220 later this year that charge cost will be reduced due to less loss. And most of the time I jack power using the free fob they give you to use for 2 years or charge at the dealer which is around the corner from my residence. I've got (2) 480v rapid chargers coming later this year. Those take 30 minutes for a full charge to 100% if the batteries are dead which is rare so 15 minutes in reality.

If you want warrantied transport, at minimal cost, these current leases are cheap as **** on these cars. If you can actually get Honda to lease you a FIT EV, the insurance is included also. They can have my $200 a month, I feel like I'm robbing them.
Pre is offline  
Old 06-04-2014, 08:22 AM   #49
brainfreeze
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 289538
Join Date: Jul 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: PA
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ
Galxy BL-\

Default

Fiat loses $14,000 on each electric 500 they sell. http://www.dailytech.com/Fiat+CEO+Do...ticle34951.htm
You can buy an electric car here for under $14,000 thanks to taxpayer paying for most of it. Pick one out !
http://www.offleaseonly.com/used-car...an/model_leaf/

Quote:
Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
Once batery power reaches a point where most EVs can go 300 miles on a charge and solar panels can charge said EV in a couple hours I would love an electric Wrangler.

Instant torque an if you're foolish enough to drive until empty in the middle of nowhere, all you'd have to do is take lunch and explore on foot for a bit and you could come back to a ready to go vehicle.
Pssst..
The real plan is to make you buy electric power from a single source and relinquish competitive pricing and control what you pay. Those Enron executives are still out there.

Last edited by Hondaslayer; 06-04-2014 at 12:56 PM.
brainfreeze is offline  
Old 06-04-2014, 10:21 AM   #50
Balantz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 101457
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
Czar of Sweet Dance
Moves

Default

brainfreeze
Balantz is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.