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Old 09-18-2013, 11:31 PM   #26
jdpsearcher
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TDagen......I thought the traditional BW turbo's like these normally make great power at 32 psi and below when they aren't way off their compressor map....

Dom...Could the clutch be holding back some power and causing the wavy graph???
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by jdpsearcher View Post
TDagen......I thought the traditional BW turbo's like these normally make great power at 32 psi and below when they aren't way off their compressor map....

Dom...Could the clutch be holding back some power and causing the wavy graph???
We talked on the phone a bit earlier. One of the discs in the clutch was backwards and is believed to be the reason the retention ring crapped. Could very well have been having clutch issues. I am going to try and get her back on the dyno next week and do a little bit more work with it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by jdpsearcher View Post
TDagen......I thought the traditional BW turbo's like these normally make great power at 32 psi and below when they aren't way off their compressor map....
Do some searching around and you will find completely the opposite. They like high boost. You must be looking at the compressor map wrong. These things will do 45psi and throw it down. This is a 67mm are you thinking of alot smaller sized turbo or something?
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by jdpsearcher View Post
TDagen......I thought the traditional BW turbo's like these normally make great power at 32 psi and below when they aren't way off their compressor map....

Dom...Could the clutch be holding back some power and causing the wavy graph???
If by "hold back power" you mean slip, I doubt it. Torque causes clutches to slip. If it slipped, it would be at peak torque. Since torque is dropping the clutch would grab again as the torque dropped. That trend isn't showing here.

Plus, he's on an Exedy triple plate and that thing will hold much more torque than he's making right now.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:13 AM   #30
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Rex....Good information to know and hopefully you will find out soon....maybe some binding going on there....

TDagen.....There is so much information out there, maybe it really depends on what A/R is being used....

Dom....I understand your point....With this setup what type of power were you expecting at 28psi????
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:09 PM   #31
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400 rpm faster spool with AVCS isn't 600 like I had guessed but still pretty awesome.
Where's the updated dyno graph?
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:33 PM   #32
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Where's the updated dyno graph?
This!
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:52 PM   #33
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I thought he was bringing it straight to the track tonight!
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:02 AM   #34
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So no good info/times.

Weld cracked causing a boost leak just after launch so I coasted the track.

After talking to Dom, I think I know what is up with the waviness on the graphs so I am going to put her back on the dyno in the near future for another pull.

We are using a new Dynojet with thr lynx engagement from front to rear which is a tensioned belt. I had left DCCD in auto during pulls but when talking to Dom he suggested I should run it in lock again. So I played with it and determined DCCD wasn't working during the dyno. Theory goes that with DCCD in full open the tensioned belt between the front and rear is being let flop around between the two rollers.

Made sense to me. We are going to fix it and try again next week.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:38 AM   #35
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Can't wait to see it all done
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:16 PM   #36
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I sent u a message on Facebook lemme know when you strap her down again I wana come by and see it!! I'll probably bring the midget, he watched the dyno video like 100 times
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:42 AM   #37
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I have been pretty busy but I went to the track on Tuesday and was able to get a few runs in.

The primary things I learned were that I need some more seat time and I really need to get some drag radials or slicks for the thing. She was having no problem spinning through 2nd and walking around a bit in 3rd and 4th on the 255 star specs. I knew that was going to be a problem, but it was very last minute and I was more concerned about being able to shift anyway.

She did several 10.6-10.7s at up to 139, doing ~110 mph to the 1/8th. The best 60' I was able to manage was a 1.74 which was about 3 tenths faster to the 1/8th than any of my other 10.7s but I missed 3rd gear so the pass only ended up being a 10.6 (1/8 mph was down ~10). Shifting is drastically better and I attribute my shifting problems to... me, lol.

I am going to be heading back a week from today, hopefully on some better tires, and try to bring that down a bit.
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:15 PM   #38
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So she is trapping 139mph with 631whp? what is the weight of the car?

Very nice
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:23 PM   #39
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So she is trapping 139mph with 631whp? what is the weight of the car?

Very nice
I turned her up a tad bit last week to 672/595 with a boost-a-pump but I didn't bother posting a chart as it is still wavy (and the primary reason I didn't try to push it further yet). We'll find time to put her back on the dyno and lock DCCD to get a decent dyno graph.

She weighed in at 2960 without me in the car before I took out the passenger seat and put on my carbon fiber trunk so she is probably hovering right around 3100 with me in the car right now.

I have pulled out a lot of weight, but added quite a lot in between the 6 speed, r180, heavy ass turbo/ic, oil cooler/oil volume, and other stuff.

Edit: I have also been talking to Full Race about the 72mm FMW turbo that apparently Evan's Tuning is putting down ~1100 whp on and only added like 600-700 rpm of lag. That just might be a thing this winter. I was heavily considering going to a precision turbo before I saw how responsive this Borg Warner was. I can't even begin to think about complaining about 20 psi at 4400 rpm...
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:59 PM   #40
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Awesome!!! I bet it feels strong!

A little seat time and you will be hitting 9's no problem.

I've got star specs also, I know exactly what you mean about it walking around in 3rd. That **** is scary. My wife said "no more driving this car on the street" after she gotta a little taste of the 3rd gear walk around...

I wish I lived closer, I'd come ask for a ride
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:32 PM   #41
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Awesome!!! I bet it feels strong!

A little seat time and you will be hitting 9's no problem.

I've got star specs also, I know exactly what you mean about it walking around in 3rd. That **** is scary. My wife said "no more driving this car on the street" after she gotta a little taste of the 3rd gear walk around...

I wish I lived closer, I'd come ask for a ride
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with how it feels for it being this early and with this much left to do!

Peel mobile video (I know, I know... It is Facebook, the 6* guys keep posting it there instead of youtube ).:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=646033878750585
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
I have been pretty busy but I went to the track on Tuesday and was able to get a few runs in.

The primary things I learned were that I need some more seat time and I really need to get some drag radials or slicks for the thing. She was having no problem spinning through 2nd and walking around a bit in 3rd and 4th on the 255 star specs. I knew that was going to be a problem, but it was very last minute and I was more concerned about being able to shift anyway.

She did several 10.6-10.7s at up to 139, doing ~110 mph to the 1/8th. The best 60' I was able to manage was a 1.74 which was about 3 tenths faster to the 1/8th than any of my other 10.7s but I missed 3rd gear so the pass only ended up being a 10.6 (1/8 mph was down ~10). Shifting is drastically better and I attribute my shifting problems to... me, lol.

I am going to be heading back a week from today, hopefully on some better tires, and try to bring that down a bit.
Nice I didn't see the 139mph slip, I only saw the 3 you guys posted of the 135-137mph passes.
Whats the 139mph slip break down look like?
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:59 PM   #43
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Nice I didn't see the 139mph slip, I only saw the 3 you guys posted of the 135-137mph passes.
Whats the 139mph slip break down look like?
I will have to check when I get home, it was a bit worse launch but I landed all the gears and was like an 11.1 or so. I am sure the trap would come down a bit with a solid 60' but I am sure all the wheelspin wasn't helping.
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Old 10-06-2013, 03:20 AM   #44
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the 6* guys keep posting it there instead of youtube ).:
What's YouTube?


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Old 10-06-2013, 04:13 PM   #45
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Lots of wheel spin! Your time is going to drop big time with some good rubber.

Second gear almost looks like a minor wheel hop/shudder going down. Once you get it to put the power to the ground effectively, its gonna really be moving out.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by RexFTW View Post
I will have to check when I get home, it was a bit worse launch but I landed all the gears and was like an 11.1 or so. I am sure the trap would come down a bit with a solid 60' but I am sure all the wheelspin wasn't helping.

What year gearbox are you using?
Usually once the 60ft comes down you get better traction and more acceleration, so you might not loose any mph.

Are you still spinning it to a million rpm?
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Old 10-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #47
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What year gearbox are you using?
Usually once the 60ft comes down you get better traction and more acceleration, so you might not loose any mph.

Are you still spinning it to a million rpm?
07 STi 6 speed with carbon synchros and Spec B 5th/6th

Haha, she's was still going a ways up there, up to the 8800 rpm limit I was told to keep it at.

I do mean was, unfortunately.

This engine let go too, on Saturday. #4 rod broke in 4 pieces, the long part of the rod broke in 3 pieces and the big end piece broke too. A frighteningly silent failure just after peak torque on a single 3rd gear pull. Then the car caught on fire from oil after the case was windowed, but we thankfully had a full size extinguisher with us or the car would have burnt to the ground.

Two people are telling me the damage is consistent with what they would expect if a rod bolt backed out. Dom is saying the damage looks like the rod failed from compressive stress - too much power. I frankly don't know enough to forensically determine either way, and they both are pointing to things that make sense to me logically.

All I know is that this failure is stupid either way. The car was making well under the power these rods should be able to handle and there would be no good reason for a rod bolt to back out. Dom mentioned he believes it could have been prior fatigue or some event that weakened the rod, but that doesn't make sense to me as I can't recount any explainable event in the last ~900 miles since this engine started up for that to have been the case. Total number of full throttle pulls on the car is about 23 or so dyno pulls (I don't remember exactly, I would have to go look), 6 drag passes, and about 12-15 pulls on the street (she was scary so I wasn't constantly flying around). We have even spent time a week or two ago talking about how I had the car tuned, what timing was at, what boost was at, fueling, AVCS... etc and I was right in line with what he expected (although he encouraged me to lean it out a bit, but only like 1/4 of a point so nothing insane).

Damage:
One piston nicked, one piston marred, one piston badly damaged, one piston raped
Two rods nicked, one rod marred a little bit, one rod in 4 pieces (not including the rod cap)
Two sleeves effectively eradicated, two sleeves nicked and marred
Block has multiple sun roofs above #4 journal
Billet crank - All journals still mirror finished except #4 in which half is mirrored and the other half has a small flat spot and some scuffing, the rear counter weight took a hit in 4 places. A local shop believes there is a shot the crank is salvageable with a larger bearing, cleaning up and rebalance. I am not very hopeful and nervous about reusing that kind of part anyway in a build this size. On the other hand, it is a $4k part.
4 bent valves from the #4 cylinder, going to have the cams on that side looked at to make sure they are safe to use.

I could accept this as part of the science experiment if I was making another 200 wheel and on the edge of what the parts were supposed to be able to support and it was my decision to risk overpowering the parts. I wasn't there yet. Granted it is still a lot of power, especially for a Subaru, but it should not have given up that soon so far from it's promised capabilities.

I'm not even sure I want to try again just yet, but she was so absolutely amazing for the short period she was running I don't feel like I can just let it drop. But if I do continue, I don't know where to go from here or who to go to for an engine for this. I have some researching to do.

What an absolute cluster**** this engine has been since I started this project.

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Old 10-09-2013, 05:13 PM   #48
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Damn sorry to hear, I saw this thing at the shootout and was very impressed by the unique setup. Hope you get it back on the road
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:33 PM   #49
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I'm sorry about your disaster man. I know all about the sick feeling that you get when things go from perfect to disaster in no time.

My advice is to let it sit for a week or two. Then you will know more. That's a massive financial burden to handle as well.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:52 PM   #50
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bummer...
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