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Old 10-07-2013, 08:47 PM   #51
AWDORBUST13
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Wow that's a great idea AJ! I'll download it to the ap and put it on there tomorrow. As far was switching the tune is it as easy as going into the tune menu and just selecting it? I haven't switched mine since I put the ap in.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:39 PM   #52
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Yea, when you're in accessory mode just go to tune > reflash (NOT realtime) > then your 91+AEM map. Takes about 25 seconds.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #53
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Well I appreciate the suggestion! Don't seem to be getting any input from anyone else on the boards lately. Isn't the fine knock learning on every WOT log supposed to indicate something?

I know they mentioned about the feedback knock happening due to dramatic change in throttle position, but isn't it different for the fine knock learning to kick in a few seconds after you start your WOT pull?
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:54 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDORBUST13 View Post

I know they mentioned about the feedback knock happening due to dramatic change in throttle position, but isn't it different for the fine knock learning to kick in a few seconds after you start your WOT pull?

FLKC can show up in wot pulls too by A) Being previously learned in that rpm/load range or B) a new event which usually shows up on the tail end of the pull when the load is not rapidly changing.

This will explain how it works: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1840.html
For AP users IAM is the same as DAM.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:58 AM   #55
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Thank you very much! I read the section you mentioned and I will read the whole post when I get home. As you stated this means that the knock was learned and will continue to show where it first occurred.

As for this portion from your post:

"Although exactly how the ECU determines knock (based on input from the knock sensor) is not fully understood, the result is quite simple. The knock signal is either set or clear. That it, as far as the ECU is concerned, there either is knock or there isn't. There's no level of severity that is stored or used for knock control."

Does that mean the value will go away if there is no knock or does it persist regardless if an actual problem exists?

Lastly, if there were a large issue at hand wouldn't my CEL become activated?

Last edited by AWDORBUST13; 10-08-2013 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:30 AM   #56
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Last question first: Your car won't throw a c.e.l. for knock (unless the knock sensor goes bad). It can throw c.e.l. for what may cause knock e.g. system lean in some cases.

So I guess a better question would be when is knock (detonation) something to be worried about?
I would be concerned if:

DAM was reduced from 1.0 after your car has settled in. (Some maps start with a reduced value and increment up to 1 after a short while)

Logs that show FBKC and/or FLKC events consistently at high loads and rpms.

Logs where you see multiple knock events e.g. -1.4 followed by -2.8, -4.2 and so on.

Where negative timing corrections continue and are never unlearned over multiple logs.


In short it is very common to see -1.4 timing corrections and even the occasional -2.8 just cruising around. Sometimes it really can be real knock events, but as long as it's not consistent and at higher loads and rpms it's generally nothing to worry about. That's how your ecu is on vigil protecting your motor.

I looked at your logs and I see nothing to be concerned about.
Go enjoy your car.
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:43 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDORBUST13 View Post
Does that mean the value will go away if there is no knock or does it persist regardless if an actual problem exists?
oops I missed this part of your question.
Yes the timing will be added back as long as the knock sensor gives the "all clear".
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:27 PM   #58
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Thank you for peace of mind. I am going to try what AJ suggested and go with the 91 OCT +AEM map and see how it looks. Will post up a couple more and if you wouldn't mind swinging back in to check it would be appreciated!
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:20 PM   #59
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Sometimes these cars need a little bit more refined tuning to get rid of any pesky FLKC and FBKC. As long as everything is mechanically sound and you don't have any leaks you can "customize" your COBB OTS maps with ATR. Or you could get an etune. I highly recommend Torqued Performance. A tune for your car including revisions and support will run you $85. You will still use your AP to log and flash with.
http://torquedperformance.com/2013-W...T-AP13STG1.htm

Just my 2 cents
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDORBUST13 View Post
Thank you for peace of mind. I am going to try what AJ suggested and go with the 91 OCT +AEM map and see how it looks. Will post up a couple more and if you wouldn't mind swinging back in to check it would be appreciated!
I've monitored knock during 3 trips to and from work. On the 93 map I'd ALWAYS see at least 1 correction of -1.4. Since switching to the 91 tune, I haven't seen a single correction. It's also much, much smoother. If I go stage 2, I'll definitely use the 91 map as well (unless I get a protune/etune).

Would love to know if this fixes your problems.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:45 PM   #61
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I will definitely let you know AJ. The only reason I was worried was due to the wonky A/f learning values even though they were only borderline.

And you are the second person to suggest torqued performance nmlittlebigman... I did check it out and it says you have to request the access race tuner program 24 hours in advance. Was it easy to deal with?

Hopefully this tune (Stage 1 91+AEM)sorts me out and I can be safe and worry free for a bit. If not I will get with TP and see what's up with that. The wifey told me no more for the wrx too soon since I just bought 4 winter wheels and tires from tire rack as well
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:53 PM   #62
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I am tuned OS with a Tactrix cable so no experience with ATR...sorry. I bet COBB would walk you through it though.

You should be fine with the 91 map like AJ suggested.

BTW, good call. Keep the wifey happy above all else.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:59 AM   #63
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A week after switching to stage 1+AEM 91 (from its 93 octane counterpart) my A/F trims have been fluctuating more than ever. Generally bouncing between -7 in the A and C values. B has been generally around -.6.

Today it was rather odd but it started to go positive by +3 and got these values.

1: 3.12 (-6.25/3.12)
A: 2.80 (2.80/3.10)
B: -.40 (-.40/-.40)
C: -6.00 (-6.00/-6.00)

So all borderline as before with the value for 1 and A randomly beginning to go positive.

I've actually noticed more knocking than before the past two days with -4.2 feedback and -2.8 fine knock happening regularly. I don't seem to see it happening so it could be during shift etc. Generally in WOT runs it goes to -.7 or -1.4 and learns it away. So it very well could be nothing.

But to answer your question AJ switching the map didn't solve those problems, but the max boost I've seen has been 17.82 with a consistent 16.8-17.2. So over boost isn't too much a concern with the new map.

Will post 2 logs I got today when I get home.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:00 AM   #64
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Going to just go with torque performance tune for 85$ in the next couple days/ after the weekend since they offer quality tech support.

Kinda hit a brick wall on these forums other than cobbs replies of "get your tract tested", and "don't worry about those knocks". I'd like to believe it is nothing, but it will be worth 85$ to get some additional assistance.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #65
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They might say the same thing.

Did you ever put your stock airbox back in to see if that made any difference?
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:56 PM   #66
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I forgot to put the logs up last night so I will do it now for those who are interested.

Link 1

Link Dos

Link Trois

No AJ I haven't put the stock one back on to test it yet. Pretty much been doing everything I can to avoid having to do so as it was a pain to put on in the first place and I'm holding out hope that its not the intake.

Last edited by AWDORBUST13; 10-17-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:22 PM   #67
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It's weird there's knock and knock learning every time even on the lower octane runs. Your MAF voltage looks really high too, I only hit 4.2 around 280/290 g/s.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:12 PM   #68
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I thought so too AJ but I really don't know what to do about it at this point. I wonder if the bpv noise is causing false knock and if the tune is off for the intake. If so I would need a the forge 2 and etune.... Other than those two things I'm not sure.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:31 PM   #69
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I think you might have something loose. I don't get any knock from turbo spool or bpv venting. I hardly get any ever, actually. Especially with the lower octane tune. The only thing I'm concerned about at this moment are high IDC's and I see a lot of people with the same numbers. So I'm not sure if it's good, normal, or bad. Only time will tell, I'm tired of worrying about my car, after all, that's all it is. If it breaks, I either get rid of it after fixing it or build it up.

You could try logging cylinder roughness or knock count per cylinder for all 4 cylinders and see if it's just one cylinder doing it or not. If it's only one, it could be a ringland, but I doubt that since your A/F trims are wacko too.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:33 PM   #70
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I'm going to take a good look into the whole issue this weekend AJ, but I'm with you about worrying. I spend more of my time looking for knock and a/f learning trying to figure out its cause than actually enjoying this car. Wish I knew more about it or a seasoned tuner before I bothered with the AP.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:44 PM   #71
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Before I had this car I had an 04 Mustang Cobra with ~600whp. Only had it tuned once, after that it went 110,000 miles without a single problem with the stock shortblock. Put an intake and corresponding tune on a WRX and worry about ringlands, all kinds of ratios and values to meet and so on. I'm about ready to ditch this for a prius if something detrimental happens.

EDIT: I've been meaning to show you this. This was in a long string of emails when I talked with this Cobb employee about IDC's.

"Hello AJ!

I have also heard what you said about A/F Learning being lower for the WRX. It is honestly just an opinion. I usually allow up to 8 on both vehicles when you have an aftermarkets intake. With the log that you gave me I don't think you have anything to worry about with regards to your A/F Learning 1.

You can try running the 91ACN map. That will have a lower boost target and will have less power. That would help lower your IDC.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Thank you,

John"


Maybe your car is fine after all? Although the knock issue is still weird.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:27 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDORBUST13 View Post
Going to just go with torque performance tune for 85$ in the next couple days/ after the weekend since they offer quality tech support. Kinda hit a brick wall on these forums other than cobbs replies of "get your tract tested", and "don't worry about those knocks". I'd like to believe it is nothing, but it will be worth 85$ to get some additional assistance.
I was TP stage 1 and stage 2 for awhile, Eric helped to dial everything in for me. It took about 5 revisions on each stage, but I was happy with the result. If I had a Wideband installed on my downpipe I would have probably staid the e-tune route.

I have the AEM intake - Do you have the rubber gasket installed on the housing where the intake goes into the fender?

I kind of centered the intake pipe so it doesn't resonate off the housing, I also made sure there was little gap where the intake tube connects to the inlet side.
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:41 AM   #73
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@ AJ I feel for you brother. Which log did you give him and what are your A/F ratios now? Are you experiencing knock at increasing values -1.4, -2.8 etc? I will be getting the Etune from TP and I'll pick their brains about the IDC % values as I have experienced 102 before etc. normally this is in 2nd gear when approaching the higher rpms.

My boost is still somewhat high for how warm it still is @ 58 degrees and hitting 17.80 on occasion. Will definitely keep an eye on it as it gets cooler here in Vt... can't imagine it at the -22 I saw la couple years ago when I left for work at 4am. Luckily I have an attached garage now.

@Fst when I put the AEM I did indeed have the rubber gasket on and it made the fit quite snug. I will double check the intake itself but as last I checked the housing itself was resting on the intakes flange. I also zip tied all the cords together so they would not be rattling around. How was it using the access tuner race program and how long did it take to get from cobb? Did you have issues with AF ratios or knock before that?
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:26 AM   #74
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Have no idea what my A/F ratios are like because I don't have a wideband but I don't see any knock when this happens. I just gave him my most recent log from the injectors maxed out thread. Nor him or Cobb seemed concerned and they said it is normal to see IDC's that high in cooler temps. I checked with a few friends and they all have identical numbers. Supposed our injectors read high and actually max out or go static around 115%. This can also be caused by running rich.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:57 PM   #75
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Purchased the Stage 1 Torqued Performance maps. Will let you know what happens and what I think of it. Software did not take me 24 hours to get from Cobb, I received the email within about 5 mins, but not sure if this happens in most/all cases.
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