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Old 09-24-2013, 01:10 AM   #1
Ihaveawagon
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Default Researching for a build

UPDATE: Decided to switch to 2.5L platform.



I've been doing as much research as I can for an upcoming build. Trying to slowly amass the parts I need for my desired goals. I'd like to attempt 350 whp range. (Mustang Dyno in Cincinnati Ohio area) From what I've read this setup should put me in the area. Yes I am familiar with that much power and am sure I want it. Figured I would state that before the "Are you sure you want 400 hp" thread pops up. It's a nice thread and all but I am sure.

I plan on running the stock WRX 5spd until it dies. I do understand that if abused the transmission will not think twice about grenading. (Unsure about going with the 6spd or heavier gears. Haven't researched that enough yet. Also would like to drive a 6spd from an STI first.)

Let me know if I'm missing something or there's a better route. Feel free to suggest different brands.

Currently have:
Unknown brand Turboback exhaust.
Unknown brand up pipe
Cobb AP

Engine.
Intending to go with a 2.1 stroker setup as what I've seen is the general consensus on hybrids is bad.
Looking at this kit. http://www.6starspeed.com/suwrxejpe2st.html
May attempt to assemble piece by piece.
Hoping to not have to bore.
Forged 92 mm Manley Platinum series 2618 alloy pistons from (8.5:1 C.R.)
08+ STI Crankshaft
ACL Race series engine bearings
Manley Sport Compact H-Beam Rods
Valve springs/retainers (suggestions would be nice)
Cams - will stock ej205 cams work? Or use STI cams that are modified for non-avcs
ARP 11 mm head studs
STI oil pump
Perrin lightweight crank shaft pulley
TGV deletes - will bore out and delete CEL
Subaru OEM Gasket kit
Crank and rods balanced. Engine honed by shop.
Will have the heads gone over by a shop.
Belts - suggestions?
Spark plugs One step colder - brand suggestions?
1000 CC injectors as I would like to run e85. suggestions?
Walbro 255 fuel pump. Big enough? - or DW equivalent as I've been informed they rate their pumps for e85
Blouch 20g xt turbo
Grimspeed up pipe and 38mm tial wastegate vented to atmosphere
STI TMIC - will that be sufficient?
Resurfaced flywheel
clutch - will 350 require a stage 1? - brand suggestions?
Of course tuned by a reputable shop
AFR gauge - Defi gauges suggested - confirm/deny?
EGT gauge - Defi gauges suggested - confirm/deny?
EBC - suggestions
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Last edited by Ihaveawagon; 10-02-2013 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Constantly editing
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:40 PM   #2
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Looks like a fun setup, I fought with building almost the same setup for a couple years, then decided I was going to do a kit car build instead. So I'm setting up my ej255 for that.
Only input, I usually run a DW fuel pumps only because they rate their pumps for e85 use unlike Walboro. Yes people use em and have good results, but it's just a piece of mind. And the stock cams will work, but with the upgraded springs why not get some cams and rev it a little higher? You should totally start a build thread too, I wanna follow your build, I might go back and do one in the future!
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #3
Ihaveawagon
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I'll start a build thread as I start ordering parts. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:22 AM   #4
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Have you talked to who is going to tune the car yet. They may be able provide some suggestions and insight as to what they like and see working the best.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:48 PM   #5
Ihaveawagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@grimmspeed View Post
Have you talked to who is going to tune the car yet. They may be able provide some suggestions and insight as to what they like and see working the best.
Unsure who I will have tune. I figured I'd try to hammer out the build a little more before talking to a tuner. Just have them fine tune what I've come up with.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihaveawagon View Post
Unsure who I will have tune. I figured I'd try to hammer out the build a little more before talking to a tuner. Just have them fine tune what I've come up with.
might be easier to go the other way. but yeah what are you going to use your car for? road racing or drag? I'm in the middle of building one myself I just picked up some v9 heads for mine and am going to get some tomei cams

oh yeah, for your pistons if you are reusing a block, you might want to go up to 92.5 just for good measure, and a good bore
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:51 PM   #7
Ihaveawagon
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Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
might be easier to go the other way. but yeah what are you going to use your car for? road racing or drag? I'm in the middle of building one myself I just picked up some v9 heads for mine and am going to get some tomei cams

oh yeah, for your pistons if you are reusing a block, you might want to go up to 92.5 just for good measure, and a good bore
I intend on using my car for everything. Very little drag until I do something with the transmission. After suspension/brakes I would like to start doing AutoX. Other than that just spirited driving and possibly some highway pulls when I find a willing combatant.

I have heard the 92.5 suggested a bit, couldn't find any information on if it would cause sleeve issues down the road. Also what about going all the way with 93mm for the extra displacement? It's not much but it all adds up.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:04 AM   #8
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what have you read about that says hybrid builds are bad? any links? im thinking of doing it for money reasons because the AVCS system is a pain to get by.
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:17 AM   #9
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You will need a bigger tmic. Fmic would be better.

Get Defi gauges. Do not cheap out!!! You will regret it.

Avoid one step colder plugs, especially on E85.

Do not reuse stock cams! Stock cams suck, upgrade. The power band is going to taper off up top, which ruins the point of this whole build.

Last edited by rexblake; 09-26-2013 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:53 PM   #10
Ihaveawagon
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Originally Posted by Shiftee View Post
what have you read about that says hybrid builds are bad? any links? im thinking of doing it for money reasons because the AVCS system is a pain to get by.
Quench distance is off. They detonate/knock. They are louder than normal so it gets picked up as a fake knock. They don't make it into high mileage. The tuner I was talking to before I decided to go the 2.1 route, responded without hesitation that they are bad when I asked him about them. There are always going to be supporters and detractors for everything. What I've read has been enough to steer me away from the hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
You will need a bigger tmic. Fmic would be better.

Get Defi gauges. Do not cheap out!!! You will regret it.

Avoid one step colder plugs, especially on E85.

Do not reuse stock cams! Stock cams suck, upgrade. The power band is going to taper off up top, which ruins the point of this whole build.

My setup isn't going to be big enough to need an FMIC, it will only create lag. I am aware that I need a bigger TMIC and was not sure if the STI stock would be sufficient. Also I have heard good things about ebay TMIC's. Thank you for your gauge brand suggestion. Why would I avoid colder plugs? I will also have a tune for 93 and e85.
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihaveawagon View Post
Quench distance is off. They detonate/knock. They are louder than normal so it gets picked up as a fake knock. They don't make it into high mileage. The tuner I was talking to before I decided to go the 2.1 route, responded without hesitation that they are bad when I asked him about them. There are always going to be supporters and detractors for everything. What I've read has been enough to steer me away from the hybrid.


My setup isn't going to be big enough to need an FMIC, it will only create lag. I am aware that I need a bigger TMIC and was not sure if the STI stock would be sufficient. Also I have heard good things about ebay TMIC's. Thank you for your gauge brand suggestion. Why would I avoid colder plugs? I will also have a tune for 93 and e85.
Hybrids need to be machined correctly to take care of those issues. But, if your tuner want's something different, go with what he recommends.

A fmic is going to make power easier, less prone to heat soak (inherently safer), and cause minimal lag at best (i.e., probably not discernible). My lag "increased" by 200 rpms, I'll chalk that up to environmental conditions.

Avoid ebay tmic. Some seem to work ok, some suck, and either way they are just ripping off an actual companies hard work. Support the legit company.

You don't need colder plugs. Colder plugs actually seem to work worse in E85 applications. Just like plasma plugs or whatever fancy ones. Stick with stock copper plugs. I had great luck with those on E changing them once a year and gapped way down.
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Old 09-26-2013, 09:00 PM   #12
Ihaveawagon
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Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
Hybrids need to be machined correctly to take care of those issues. But, if your tuner want's something different, go with what he recommends.

A fmic is going to make power easier, less prone to heat soak (inherently safer), and cause minimal lag at best (i.e., probably not discernible). My lag "increased" by 200 rpms, I'll chalk that up to environmental conditions.

Avoid ebay tmic. Some seem to work ok, some suck, and either way they are just ripping off an actual companies hard work. Support the legit company.

You don't need colder plugs. Colder plugs actually seem to work worse in E85 applications. Just like plasma plugs or whatever fancy ones. Stick with stock copper plugs. I had great luck with those on E changing them once a year and gapped way down.
Even if the combustion chamber on the head is machined to match it still has issues. Again no on FMIC. Don't want to cut the bumper. Its not needed. Lag is lag. If i'm moving heatsoak isnt a big deal. If I can get the same product for cheaper, I'm going to go that route.

"TMICs and FMICs: Probably the BEST buy on eBay. Having done or seen done many intercoolers, I can honestly say that eBay pretty much ownz in the intercooler business. I've heard and seen some heroic battles with brand name intercoolers that end up looking haggard with miss-aligned pipes, offset intercooler cores, crappy fittings, missing hardware. Every eBay intercooler I've seen or heard of fits like crazy, is cheap as crap, and is 10 times better than the name brand units." - Unabomber
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=22688922

Only going to use copper for tuning. I am not going to run my car full time on copper plugs. They wear out faster and have no actual proof of increasing anything. Still looking for more information on temperature with e85. I've seen both directions. Will talk to tuner.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihaveawagon View Post
Even if the combustion chamber on the head is machined to match it still has issues. Again no on FMIC. Don't want to cut the bumper. Its not needed. Lag is lag. If i'm moving heatsoak isnt a big deal. If I can get the same product for cheaper, I'm going to go that route.

"TMICs and FMICs: Probably the BEST buy on eBay. Having done or seen done many intercoolers, I can honestly say that eBay pretty much ownz in the intercooler business. I've heard and seen some heroic battles with brand name intercoolers that end up looking haggard with miss-aligned pipes, offset intercooler cores, crappy fittings, missing hardware. Every eBay intercooler I've seen or heard of fits like crazy, is cheap as crap, and is 10 times better than the name brand units." - Unabomber
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=22688922

Only going to use copper for tuning. I am not going to run my car full time on copper plugs. They wear out faster and have no actual proof of increasing anything. Still looking for more information on temperature with e85. I've seen both directions. Will talk to tuner.
That is a thread from 08 and is quite possibly the dumbest al encompassing statement I have ever heard. Certainly on intercoolers. There is also a thread stating the eBay tmic actually works WORSE than a stock STI intercooler, even though it was significant larger (ya know, with actual dyno results, scientific and ****). You might get lucky, but generally, you get what you pay for.

You want coppers for E85. Period. You can run what you want, coppers are better. If you can't handle swapping them once a year, your in for a world of hurt. Check the "e85 army" thread.

Last edited by rexblake; 09-27-2013 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:14 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
That is a thread from 08 and is quite possibly the dumbest al encompassing statement I have ever heard. Certainly on intercoolers. There is also a thread stating the eBay tmic actually works WORSE than a stock STI intercooler, even though it was significant larger. You might get lucky, but generally, you get what you pay for.

You want coppers for E85. Period. You can run what you want, coppers are better. If you car hade swapping the once a year, your in for a world of hurt.
K thanks.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #15
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Thank you for the suggestion.

Last edited by Unabomber; 10-03-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:10 AM   #16
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Brake upgrades? Suspension upgrades?
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:57 AM   #17
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Brake upgrades? Suspension upgrades?
Going with the suck my dick package. Its a pretty solid package. I think its made by Cobb.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:16 AM   #18
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Going with the suck my dick package. Its a pretty solid package. I think its made by Cobb.
Lol, well played sir, well played. Aight, have fun hitting that tree after you take that turn at exactly the speed limit.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:17 AM   #19
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Lol, well played sir, well played. Aight, have fun hitting that tree after you take that turn at exactly the speed limit.
You do understand some people understand how to drive their car and know the limits of said car? Not all of us are 16 year olds who just got behind the wheel of a car they shouldn't even touch. Nice attempt at trolling btw.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:26 AM   #20
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Whoa whoa, you said nothing about driving. You go the speed limit in all circumstances. Remember? And never accelerate fast. Nor do you turn quickly. And you certainly, which has been proven repeatedly, never brake quickly. Ever. And certainly absolutely irrefutably never more than once. Hell, I bet you make an emergency stop once and simply get a tow! Just to keep the stock brakes in check. In fact, you are a prime candidate for never modding your car, since you use all of about 50hp of it.
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Old 09-30-2013, 03:34 AM   #21
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I understand you're butthurt you got shut down in that other thread and you have no real idea what you're talking about. Quit cluttering my thread please as it might discourage someone who actually knows what they are talking about from posting.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:22 AM   #22
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Old 09-30-2013, 12:38 PM   #23
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Great suggestion but I can't justify the price. I do my own wrenching. Will keep it in mind though if I run out of time and need something now. Thanks.
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Old 09-30-2013, 01:38 PM   #24
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You sound like you have done a fair amount of research.

So just curious, what type of torque are you looking for? low end or high end? or just an overall bump. I have been looking at threads on how the 2.5 hybrids do not make that much lower end and the 2.1 helps with reduced spinning mass? I'm not sure.

I personally am looking for the next step and 2.1 vs 2.5 vs avcs has me lost. I'm looking for more low end torque spike.

Also why so against suspension mods? Top hats and a few bushings and better pads from Turninconcepts / Kns brakes are easy to install and made me happy.


The 5mt built vs stock 6mt has their pros and cons for both. I listed them in my swap story somewhere. It all comes down to what you think is the best.
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Old 09-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #25
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I'm not against suspension. That's not what this post is about though. Also that guy is trying to troll from a conversation in a different thread.

If you're looking for tq, you want to go hybrid or full 2.5 setup. If you want every bit of tq you can squirt out, you want to get the full harness/ecu for the avcs setup.

I'm looking to put tq in the 350-400 range.

As far as the transmission goes, some of it is opinion, but durability is a fact. The 6mt is vastly stronger than the 5mt. Yes you can drive a 5mt forever without breaking it, but you cannot abuse it. You cannot launch it. The 6mt is made for abuse.

If you want to pm me with questions I will answer them the best that I can.
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