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Old 09-27-2013, 09:17 AM   #51
SoapBox
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Sound like a bunch a whiny bitches in here. Good grief!
Sorry, I don't like to be called an idiot for not wanting a bunch of electronics tacted on to my BMW.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:43 AM   #52
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I was going to comment and get all nasty. But ain't nobody got time f'dat. I hate to see a level-headed enthusiast get s**t on for being a level-headed enthusiast.
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:36 PM   #53
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Heated seats are a godsend when it is minus 20!

And yes BMW is moving in the wrong direction with pretty much all it's offerings...
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:18 PM   #54
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Heated seats are a godsend when it is minus 20!

And yes BMW is moving in the wrong direction with pretty much all it's offerings...
You know what else is a godsend? Synthetic cloth seats...

Not susceptible to temperature swing
Very little maintenance to keep them in good condition
Cheaper
Lighter

Never understood why people like leather interiors. I don't want to have to treat anything with anything to keep it nice. I want to dust/vacuum and be done (I don't spill anything in my car because I don't allow food/drink in my car).

Agreed with that last comment for the most part . It was nice when you could expect cutting edge tech at highly competitive prices with all around great quality, low maintenance, and a sporty design (I'm looking at you, e36).

Then they learned they could make more money by raping their brand image.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Then they learned they could make more money by raping their brand image.
This is OUR perspective. To idiots, the new M5 is the greatest ever, as will be this new M3. Again RIP M.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:05 PM   #56
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i thought greatest= faster around the track and 0-60 times?
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:37 PM   #57
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Easy to complain about a car that none of you will afford owning until after 10 years of depreciation
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:13 PM   #58
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3300lb wet weight! it will be a 991S killerrrr.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:30 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Easy to complain about a car that none of you will afford owning until after 10 years of depreciation
Life is good from the cheap seats. Although, I don't think there's anything wrong with looking forward 5 years in the future to the used car market.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:31 PM   #60
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3300lb wet weight! it will be a 991S killerrrr.
It will be right there with it, it would seem. Although I'll believe that weight when I see it on the scales of US auto rags.
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Old 09-27-2013, 07:40 PM   #61
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It will be right there with it, it would seem. Although I'll believe that weight when I see it on the scales of US auto rags.
I think they are moving towards the right direction. More torque and less weight. It will be light-years ahead of e92.. oh how I miss cobb stg 2 0-60 pull haha..
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:22 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
You know what else is a godsend? Synthetic cloth seats...

Not susceptible to temperature swing
Very little maintenance to keep them in good condition
Cheaper
Lighter

Never understood why people like leather interiors. I don't want to have to treat anything with anything to keep it nice. I want to dust/vacuum and be done (I don't spill anything in my car because I don't allow food/drink in my car).

Agreed with that last comment for the most part . It was nice when you could expect cutting edge tech at highly competitive prices with all around great quality, low maintenance, and a sporty design (I'm looking at you, e36).

Then they learned they could make more money by raping their brand image.
Leather seats give me swamp ass.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:03 PM   #63
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I think they are moving towards the right direction. More torque and less weight. It will be light-years ahead of e92.. oh how I miss cobb stg 2 0-60 pull haha..
Not sure I'm totally on board with you. Less weight, of course. Light years ahead of the E92? We'll see. The new 3 series chassis isn't exactly loved. Hopefully they'll turn things around with this tuning job.

As far as torque goes...and by torque, I'm assuming you mean low-end power production, sure, it's improved. But that's a simple product of how much air you can flow/RPM. Of course a turbo motor is going to make more low end power vs. an N/A engine.

But sorry, I'm a bit more of a purist. I wish they had found a way to stick with high-revving, instant-response N/A engines. And not a tuned-up N54 based engine. It's sad to see the great N/A BMW mills go the way of the dinosaur. It's not about performance for many of us, it's about driver engagement. As someone who owns a 400 HP N54, and a 340 HP S54 , I'll take the linear, screaming S54 all day every day.

I would have loved to see a 3300 lb. M3 with the S65 carried over. That's like an E46 plus a screaming 70 HP. That's a car to get car guys excited...
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:11 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post

Not sure I'm totally on board with you. Less weight, of course. Light years ahead of the E92? We'll see. The new 3 series chassis isn't exactly loved. Hopefully they'll turn things around with this tuning job.

As far as torque goes...and by torque, I'm assuming you mean low-end power production, sure, it's improved. But that's a simple product of how much air you can flow/RPM. Of course a turbo motor is going to make more low end power vs. an N/A engine.

But sorry, I'm a bit more of a purist. I wish they had found a way to stick with high-revving, instant-response N/A engines. And not a tuned-up N54 based engine. It's sad to see the great N/A BMW mills go the way of the dinosaur. It's not about performance for many of us, it's about driver engagement. As someone who owns a 400 HP N54, and a 340 HP S54 , I'll take the linear, screaming S54 all day every day.

I would have loved to see a 3300 lb. M3 with the S65 carried over. That's like an E46 plus a screaming 70 HP. That's a car to get car guys excited...
Not to mention the EPS that they SWEAR is super special but probably will be a little less numb than a regular 3 series, and the engine noise played through the speakers that they SWEAR is a real engine noise but probably will be processed fake stuff. (Am I seriously to believe that they put a microphone in the engine bay? I highly doubt it.)
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:13 PM   #65
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Not to mention the EPS that they SWEAR is super special but probably will be a little less numb than a regular 3 series, and the engine noise played through the speakers that they SWEAR is a real engine noise but probably will be processed fake stuff. (Am I seriously to believe that they put a microphone in the engine bay? I highly doubt it.)
Don't even get me started. Seriously disheartening.


But not like I have room to talk. I'm a used BMW buyer, not their target market. Although maybe I'd be the target if they stayed the course.

Last edited by SoapBox; 09-27-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:41 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Len View Post
Not to mention the EPS that they SWEAR is super special but probably will be a little less numb than a regular 3 series, and the engine noise played through the speakers that they SWEAR is a real engine noise but probably will be processed fake stuff. (Am I seriously to believe that they put a microphone in the engine bay? I highly doubt it.)
I can understand that.. I guess I welcome new technology and I trust that BMW has got to have learned from f10. I mean, even an F-car is jumping on FI. And even though I've got my doubts about active sound, I just can't discredit it without experiencing it the first hand. The owners say that it doesn't bother them..

I think just the fact that they chose not to go 500hp route says a lot. We'll see.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:56 AM   #67
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I am with soapbox.

There is nothing on earth like the response of a NA engine. Nothing.
THe neck snapping response is just not able to be duplicated with a turbo. But we are a culture obsessed with Ring times and mag numbers... so thus is the fate of 'feel'
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:11 PM   #68
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I absolutely, 100% do not want active dampers. The car would be on konis in pretty short order.
So buy a car that's supposed to be extremely well tuned for a driving experience and then destroy that with aftermarket suspension that will never be tuned right? False economy indeed. I love the active dampers.

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And when I track the car, the stability is full-off. On the street, the standard traction control is more than fine.
Standard traction control makes the car lame.

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But I'm sure plenty of BMW buyers enjoy telling their passengers about how they're pressing the "M-drive double secret controller" button, which will surely get them to the 7-11 much faster.
Most of my passengers have no freakin clue about how cars work so I just don't tell them anything. Usually I just get "this is like a rollercoaster" or something like that.

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It's about as useful as the M-traction mode button on ZCP E46 M3s. It's just a less intrusive traction control program. Which should still be turned full-off when you have enough experience on the track.
No the E46 electronics were nearly useless. It's much more refined in the e9x. You can get a 10-15 degree slip angle *continuously* without it cutting in, if you have enough control of the throttle.

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And around town, if you need the "M" TC over the standard TC, you need to slow the **** down.
Oh here we go...

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What else did the ZCP get you back then? Bigger brakes, but still wholly inadequate for serious track use. So what's the point besides stroking your ego? It did get the better rack ratio (and the same stiffer springs from the older E46s...), so that's one nice thing.
10mm lower, wider 19" wheels, matching/upgraded programs for the active shocks and other electronics.

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Again, you like your electronics, I don't. You somehow feel the need to insult me for that difference of opinion?
If you feel insulted by being told how wrong you are, it's your problem.

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It's not like I'm alone, there are many people like me (low-optioned M3s, of all eras often go for a premium to enthusiasts who don't want all the BS).
They are also wrong. Luddites.

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You really want me to upset you? I'd run 17" wheels on an E90/92 if they'd fit over the brakes. Function/form
Just see what autozone crap rotors you can downgrade to and get 13's.. Since we all know a 13" wheel with 70 ratio sidewall work way better than 265/35r19 stretched over extra wide wheels. :-/ Uh-huh.

Quote:
And yes, heated seats make me have to ****. Odd, I know. It's been that way for as long as I can remeber.
I know the old nissan maxima seat warmers made you feel like you pissed yourself, but that really hasn't been a problem either with subaru or bmw.





This all being said the new M3/M4 will be designed as a driving experience fully optioned out. Having some of these packages as options is really just a dirty trick to get the base MSRP low, IMHO.
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
You know what else is a godsend? Synthetic cloth seats...

Not susceptible to temperature swing
Very little maintenance to keep them in good condition
Cheaper
Lighter

Never understood why people like leather interiors. I don't want to have to treat anything with anything to keep it nice. I want to dust/vacuum and be done (I don't spill anything in my car because I don't allow food/drink in my car).
Good leather does not have problems with temperature. It is not vinyl. It does not burn you. Also they use better leather for the M cars.
Leather is _way_ easier to clean than cloth. You should bother to condition it maybe once every 2 years, I think I'm more like once every 3 years. It's just fine.

The lighter argument? really? How much do you think that leather weighs? Are they putting their cows on a diet of lead?
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:25 PM   #70
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Pics!
About to check out some castles....

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Old 09-28-2013, 01:32 PM   #71
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You are everything wrong with BMW owners.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:15 PM   #72
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You are everything wrong with BMW owners.
What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:39 PM   #73
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About to check out some castles....

That is a beautiful car, and I also did ED, albeit in a lowly 328i. A very bare bones one at that. My plan is to do another ED, probably in an M235i, in a few years. And it will also be very lightly optioned. My feeling is that doing ED (with its deep discount) in a BMW with just the few options you really want, which is damn near impossible to find on the lot, is actually a great automobile value and experience.

Among BMW owners, the kind of argument that you are making, that the car is incompelete unless it's "loaded", seems to be very common. Frankly I think it is mostly used as a way to brag about how little they care about the expense, and how cheap/poor other owners are who didn't go for "top of the line", "loaded", etc. Of course that may not apply to you, but it's so played out that my eyes roll automatically whenever I read posts like that.

I also don't have that kind of faith in any manufacturer, that makes me think that if they put it on the option sheet it must be to maximize the driving experience. I'm pretty sure it's to maximize their profit.
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #74
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Beautiful e90! In my opinion, barebone e9x M3 is only the half of the whole. e9x M3 is designed to be a luxury performance car. There are plenty of cars that will be "faster" for cheaper.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:29 PM   #75
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That is a beautiful car, and I also did ED, albeit in a lowly 328i. A very bare bones one at that. My plan is to do another ED, probably in an M235i, in a few years. And it will also be very lightly optioned. My feeling is that doing ED (with its deep discount) in a BMW with just the few options you really want, which is damn near impossible to find on the lot, is actually a great automobile value and experience.
Thanks! Best vacation I have ever taken. Have to remember next time to go practice nurburgring on GT5 before heading there! Also plan to hit break-in mileage and first oil change while still there. Wasn't even thinking of a next time really until I saw these specs. I should see if I can get in line for a test drive whenever it's available.

Quote:
Among BMW owners, the kind of argument that you are making, that the car is incompelete unless it's "loaded", seems to be very common. Frankly I think it is mostly used as a way to brag about how little they care about the expense, and how cheap/poor other owners are who didn't go for "top of the line", "loaded", etc. Of course that may not apply to you, but it's so played out that my eyes roll automatically whenever I read posts like that.
My argument is purely technical, although I'm sure it's perceived as not.

Quote:
I also don't have that kind of faith in any manufacturer, that makes me think that if they put it on the option sheet it must be to maximize the driving experience. I'm pretty sure it's to maximize their profit.
I think that applies more to the $500 trim pieces and $1500 extended leather. Dynamic dampers and getting an M division tuned lowered car on the other hand, no. This is what the car is about. It's what is given to the reviewers.
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