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Old 10-04-2013, 03:44 PM   #1
Dmochowski
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Default How much longer can Mitsubishi last...

I remember thinking of Mitsubishi as a b***** car maker growing up. They made fun turbo cars I even owned a talon TSI back in the early 2000's it was my first turbocharged car.

Now it seems the only news I ever hear of the car maker is how bad they are doing, how little money they make, or how much the quality of their cars sucks. And everytime I read one of these articles I just think to myself how much longer can they last most car companies don't hang around that long when their sales plummet like Mitsubishi's have. I keep running across articles like this one:
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/lat...icle-1.1295167
And this one:
http://247wallst.com/special-report/...ppear-in-2014/

What do you guys think? You think they will be able to change their image and get things rolling again? In contrast Subaru sales are at record highs right now.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #2
DeeezNuuuts83
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That first article is stupid. Not to sound like a fanboy -- I know that Mitsubishi as an auto manufacturer sucks within the US -- but the title is about how the Subaru outdoes it, but there's only ONE sentence really about the Subaru (and it's about the STI specifically, not the WRX, as the title would make you think), and the only reason why they really say that it's better is because it has 305 hp (to the Evo's 291 -- though they've obviously never driven either car, as the performance numbers that have to do with hp are nearly identical for both), is offered as a hatchback (which really doesn't have much of an impact on performance in these cases, though the fact that Subaru eventually offered a sedan variant of the STI says that people wanted it, as not everyone wanting a sporty car with four doors specifically wants a wagon) and has higher resale values (which is true if you're talking about Subaru vs. Mitsubishi across the board, but not so much STI vs. Evo).

Don't get me wrong, Mitsubishi is screwing up over and over again, with the Evo being the only good thing they have going for them, kind of like the regular Lancer and Outlander Sport. However, all three of them were good in the beginning, but they've all remained stagnant over the past few years while the competition has made continuous updates, which contrasts to how the Evo had little updates here and there from 2003-2006, whereas the Evo X's updates have been limited to new trim levels that just shuffle around what is standard and what is optional.

Their "new" Mirage is their entry into the subcompact market or whatever it's called, and while the price is more or less "competitive," it just seems so far behind, and the cheap price won't save it. I just think it will lead to being another financial loss for them. It reminds me of Ford in the late 1990s or early 2000s, except the difference is that while a lot of Ford stuff also sucked, they were still capable of moving units. Mitsubishi can't, and doesn't quite have the brand loyalty since they just fell off. Ford's decline during that time was at least gradual, while it seemed like Mitsubishi just made a bunch of bad decisions overnight and expected the Evo's rep to fuel sales.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:41 PM   #3
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Mitsubishis issue is that most of their product is long overdue for a replacement (Galant, Lancer) or simply not competitive (often times, both). The Mirage OTOH, I must admit that I thought it was going to be complete ****. We just got a manual trans model in and OMG so much fun to drive. Driving position, pedal placement etc.... is actually better than the EVO. I actually wish the hatch area was bigger so I could buy one for the wife. Bluetooth, aux input etc... for $14,500. One test drive has actually made a believer out of me.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:43 PM   #4
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Interesting... glad to hear a review from someone who has driven it. I had thought it was going to be garbage, based on the pictures and also how it was in person when I saw it at MOD 2013 a few months back.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
Interesting... glad to hear a review from someone who has driven it. I had thought it was going to be garbage, based on the pictures and also how it was in person when I saw it at MOD 2013 a few months back.
It reminds me of older hatches from the 80's and 90's. Barebones, no sound deadening but it turns in really well and you can drive it at 11/10's without getting arrested Bear in mind, it is a slow car, but it does feel peppy for a little 3cyl engine. Overall I like it, a lot. I would actually consider it for myself or my wife if it was just a pinch bigger (we need room for 2 dogs and a baby) Hell, I can actually sit comfortably behind myself, granted my head does hit the headliner in the back
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:44 PM   #6
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i actually like the styling of the redesigned outlander sport the last few years i think it "looks" good atleast on the outside. I just looked at the interior and its very underwhelming...

exterior of Outlander sport
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...12-06-2010.jpg

ford's competition:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...FWD_dealer.jpg

The interior though is just so blah..
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...rt-cockpit.jpg

http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...pe-cockpit.jpg

prices are pretty comparable as well mitsu being somewhat cheaper but both having options in the mid 20's.

I think people are just finally starting to expect more for their money and wont settle for crap like they used to. Also it seemed like everyone back in the 90's and early 2000's was making pretty boring cars and now there is good competition among the US automakers now with some of them actually being successful again so there are better options in the 20-30k range.

and i think they will give one last hurrah with something like a new EVO and if they dont come out with something better in their lineup i dont see that saving them. Maybe a few more years of bad sales and they will pull the plug in America.

Last edited by Dmochowski; 10-04-2013 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:55 PM   #7
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and i really dont know what they were going for here but its gross...


this really wont hit the mark i am afraid...

the first time i saw an ad for this suv i thought what the hell it looks like something from the 90's thats disguising...

and i also agree with the above statement that the guy writting the one article was probably not a car guy, he really didnt seem to know much about either car. But sales numbers and profit are easily interpreted haha

One other thing that got me thinking about this... The city I live in I would consider a big small town we are no where near the population and size of nearby Atlanta but we are big enough in Chattanooga. That being said the EVO was released in 03 and the sti in 04. I see about everyday I am out an sti, not counting the wrx. I see maybe once every month an EVO and its usually an unmodded EVO x.

Last edited by Dmochowski; 10-05-2013 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:34 AM   #8
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Outlander has and does offer a third row, which puts it in the mix for a lot of small family working class/urbanish folk...and it has an ATARI grill. I just wish it came with the Ralliart drivetrain.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmochowski View Post
and i really dont know what they were going for here but its gross...
You know, the side of the headlights has a similar weird series of curves as one of the newer Range Rovers... not that it makes it better though. But it was just an odd similarity.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:42 AM   #10
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Oh the countless hours I have spent over the past 10 years on EvoM debating the future of Mitsu. Good times...
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:23 AM   #11
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Take a lesson from Hyundai/Kia. It can certainly be done if they shake out the bureaucrats and yes men in management. Get some younger aggressive desirable styling. The mechanicals are better than Hyundai for sure. A new ad agency would help too. Subaru found this out.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmochowski View Post
That being said the EVO was released in 03 and the sti in 04. I see about everyday I am out an sti, not counting the wrx. I see maybe once every month an EVO and its usually an unmodded EVO x.
No, EVO and STI were both released in 03. EVO was released as an 03 model, STI released as an 04 model. Both vehicles were announced within about 15 minutes of each other. Subaru let Mitsubishi bask in the glory of a 276hp, 2.0 litre monster before announcing a 300hp 2.5 monster of their own Ahhh, the good old days before Mitsubishi went full derp and turned the EVO into a Galant


Edit: and the butt ugly closed off upper grille look is being adopted by KIA now as well ("all new" SOUL) So stupid. Either put a grille there or mold it closed, don't put a blanking panel in
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #13
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From what I remember, the STi was announced at the same auto show but at a later date.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #14
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Subaru has been able to create two niches to help keep people connected and loving Subaru. They have the sporty side which of course has the wrx, sti, fxt, and now brz. And the hippie ish earth loving dog owning side for the outbacks and foresters. Mitsu has only one thing that people want from them now and its the EVO, and too bad that's out of reach for most younger people new. Probably why wrx sales are so good. Not much else there competition wise for awd and turbo in the mid 20s.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
all three of them were good in the beginning, but they've all remained stagnant over the past few years while the competition has made continuous updates,
what updates has the STI made? not speculative, talked about always upcoming in the future updates, but actual SOA available to the public updates. seems the 2014 version is still using the same engine as 2004, same performance, same transmission, same gas mileage, same mandatory big ass wing. and the legacy gt? gone.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_knoxville View Post
what updates has the STI made? not speculative, talked about always upcoming in the future updates, but actual SOA available to the public updates. seems the 2014 version is still using the same engine as 2004, same performance, same transmission, same gas mileage, same mandatory big ass wing. and the legacy gt? gone.
Well... I was referring more to changes and updates within the same generation. But off the top of my head...

2005 - wider wheel arches, wider wheels
2006 - facelift
2007 - different gearing (supposedly helped it accelerate more quickly)
2008 - new model
2010 - track-focused SE model with some JDM Spec C bits
2011 - sedan offered alongside hatchback, JDM Spec C bits became standard

While the change from the Evo IX to the Evo X had more overall updates (whole new engine, dual-clutch transmission, S-AYC, etc.) than the changes between the previous STI to today's STI, after that date, we've seen more updates to the STI than to the Evo. Not A LOT, but there have at least been changes. Like I said before, from the 2008 Evo X onward, other than the shuffling around of features and what is standard or optional on this model or that model, there hadn't been any REAL updates, other than the info display going from red to color, and the head unit changing to one that really isn't much better (while the volume control knob is now on the right, since Mitsubishi was too cheap to invest in one optimized for LHD). No engine updates, no transmission updates, no suspension updates. Just the display, gray tails on the 2010s and later, and then the revised side skirts on the 2010s and later as well.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:26 PM   #17
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Oh I think the wrx/sti has undergone more changes as far as looks are concerned. Mechanically speaking they haven't changed much but they keep selling like hot cakes so maybe they are thinking why mess with success. On the other hand mitsu can't sell cars and the lack of offerings drives people away expect for those few who are set on an EVO before they even drive one. You would think that lack of sales would drive some kind of change not just cost cutting.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #18
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They need to make their designs more exciting. Small automakers need to carve out a niche and Mitsubishi has rolled out bland offerings that don't differentiate themselves from the big players like Honda and Toyota. Honda and Toyota buyers are willing to tolerate bland for the nameplate but that's not going to fly for Mitsubishi. They need bring forward more daring styling that is going to draw buyers to them and need something else exciting in their lineup besides the EVO like a new Eclipse that goes back to it's DSM roots where it was an affordable pocket rocket that routinely outsold it's competition (Celica, Integra GSR, Prelude, Probe, 240Sx, etc.). Something small, attractive, affordable, and sporty to bring young buyers in the showroom.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:27 PM   #19
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BMW's MINI could be another brand that could soon be in distress in the US market. Some of their newer models, like their mini SUV, are still selling reasonably well, but their original "Hardtop" and Clubman models are taking a significant hit in sales. Online MINI forum activity has also dropped down considerably.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:34 PM   #20
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I think Mitsu will leave the US passenger car market and stick to what they are good at. Kei cars, diesel trucks, and industrial/construction equipment.

Now that Fiat owns Chrysler, they don't even have a shot at building a tiny Dodge-badged car.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:49 PM   #21
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http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/deskto...p-safety-pick-

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The Forester, the only one of 13 small SUVs to earn an overall rating of good in the test, and the 2013 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport, which earns acceptable, are the latest vehicles to qualify for the Institute's recently inaugurated top honor, Top Safety Pick+. Each of the other 11 SUVs earns either a poor or marginal rating.
Cheap yet it still did better than the others. Of course the Forester came out on top as usual. Toyota even had time to redesign the Corolla but it did poorly in the small overlap test.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #22
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Mitsubishi biggest problem currently is they are coming out with innovative ideas but have no idea how to execute those ideas into the automotive marketplace.

They show a lack of focus when its comes to updating their entire lineup of vehicles. It seems like they put more effort into updating certain cars that have proven sales. My theory is that the current management for the automotive branch has conflicting ideas on how to move forward in the current market. They need to realize that they are outdated and simply being outperformed by their competitors.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
It reminds me of older hatches from the 80's and 90's. Barebones, no sound deadening but it turns in really well and you can drive it at 11/10's without getting arrested Bear in mind, it is a slow car, but it does feel peppy for a little 3cyl engine. Overall I like it, a lot. I would actually consider it for myself or my wife if it was just a pinch bigger (we need room for 2 dogs and a baby) Hell, I can actually sit comfortably behind myself, granted my head does hit the headliner in the back
I just took a look at it on the Mitsu site. Looks interesting, sure is light, just over 2,000 lb! So much for it being impossible to build cars that light while meeting modern safety requirements.

I wish them all the luck in the world, but with 75hp I think they may have a tough time. It gets better economy than a Mazda 2 or Fit, but I'm guessing it's a bit too slow and loud for most 'Mericans. I'm sure it makes a great car for the central city though. A great second car and an alternative to a Leaf or Prius V at a much lower price.

Part of the problem for Mitsu these days is they aren't top of mind for most consumers any more. They don't even make the list of cars to compare when people start shopping. Subaru has their dedicated cult of enthusiastic owners to help with word of mouth, but the only Mitsu vehicle with a cult-like following is the Evo.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:03 PM   #24
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I just took a look at it on the Mitsu site. Looks interesting, sure is light, just over 2,000 lb! So much for it being impossible to build cars that light while meeting modern safety requirements.

I wish them all the luck in the world, but with 75hp I think they may have a tough time. It gets better economy than a Mazda 2 or Fit, but I'm guessing it's a bit too slow and loud for most 'Mericans.
I had a double take at that last word. Just one letter off, lol. Mitsubishi needs their own cult and one with a presence. They haven't done much to differentiate themselves from the competition like Kia and Hyundai. I'd honestly rather drive a current generation Hyundai Tuscon than the Outlander. The Tuscon is kind of ugly and needs a new look (for starters) but at least Hyundai is aspiring to be the more luxurious counterpart of Kia.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:54 PM   #25
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Mitsubishi has had some success lately with the crash test ratings (I think they got 3 top safety pick plus ratings). In fact of the 4 SUVs that got the Top Safety Plus, half of them were Mitsubishis. It would be nice if they promoted that to draw some interest. I expected my Evo X to be a rattle box with poor build quality starting to show itself after a while, but the car has been one of the most trouble free cars I own.

They should have made a Ralliart Outlander Sport, a higher powered Evo X (car is so pig rich that if they gave it a better tune it would probably get 340hp out of the factory), and at least show the Evo XI concept to keep people interested.
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