Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday July 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2013, 07:59 AM   #51
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Kids, shut it.

"Drivers Car" is a car that has a certain spirit to it, and not a "Point A to Point B" appliance. Stop being pedantic.

--kC
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 09:13 AM   #52
getek20
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43560
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Upstate New York
Vehicle:
2009 Lancer Ralliart
Black

Default

I would like to chime in-

Coming from a past Subaru owner ('00 2.5 RS, '03 WRX, '06 WRX) and current '09 Ralliart owner I can honestly say my Ralliart is the best car I have ever owned. Granted, the Ralliart was a little sluggish in stock form, but that was remedied by a Cobb Accessport and Stage 1 flash.

Anyhoo, I chose the Ralliart because I wanted a modern drivetrain (i.e. 2.0 turbo four mated to dual clutch transmission and AWD). I also selected the Ralliart because it offered HIDs, proximity key, Rockford Fosgate sound system, and Recaros. Subaru didn't offer those options in the WRX when I purchased the Ralliart 3.5 years ago.

Aside from a broken TPMS at 40k miles and a ventilation fan that needed replacing at 60k the car has been rock solid reliability-wise. Regular oil changes and tires are the only thing I've had to worry about, save the two small aforementioned hiccups. I have friends who also have Mitsubishi products and they too have been extremely reliable.

Build quality is certainly not up to par with others (i.e. Subaru, Honda, Toyota) but they do offer a few good platforms. Overall, I think a lot of buyers don't consider their products because they are mostly outdated and unpolished. Aside from the EVO none of their cars stand out in their respective segments.

Going back to their platforms, they do have a good basis for a product line...it's just a lot of them are stagnant. For example, the EVO X and Ralliart have only undergone minimal, mostly insignificant changes, since they were released in '08 and '09 respectively. Their vehicles could be more competitive if they 1) increased fuel economy 2) made them more fun to drive, and most importantly 3) updated them more often. I do think they will go out of business very soon if they don't remedy these problems quickly.

Last edited by getek20; 10-08-2013 at 09:24 AM.
getek20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:46 AM   #53
SilverSubaab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 88288
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Central MA
Vehicle:
2014 VW GLI

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A W View Post
Your face must have dumbass written on it.
Well, that got a laugh out of me, thanks :-). Are you 7 years old?
SilverSubaab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 12:41 PM   #54
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
'08 2.5i,'65 Stang
'80 Vette L82,'73 914 2.0

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by getek20 View Post
Going back to their platforms, they do have a good basis for a product line...it's just a lot of them are stagnant. For example, the EVO X and Ralliart have only undergone minimal, mostly insignificant changes, since they were released in '08 and '09 respectively. Their vehicles could be more competitive if they 1) increased fuel economy 2) made them more fun to drive, and most importantly 3) updated them more often. I do think they will go out of business very soon if they don't remedy these problems quickly.
Don't forget 4) Spend money on marketing.

Except for the EVO, no body really knows the Lancer cars exists. For most enthusiasts, car fans, new drivers, it's EVO or bust but more often bust because of price. Most don't know the Lancer lineup includes awd SE and Ralliart models, which can be good "entry-level" and "stepping stone" models to the flagship EVO or other Mitsu products.

Ever since the Ralliart hit the market, I only recall seeing one on public streets and have yet to cross an awd Lancer SE and I live in Colorado where Subaru Imprezas, WRXs, & STIs are very popular.

The issue with the Ralliart are the numbers (high price and low HP numbers). I know this doesn't tell the whole story of a car as it does have a good FI engine that is highly tunable, AWC awd, good transmission, EVO bits. But throw in the low rent interior, the general public looks at the starting price, HP numbers, and for some no MT, they walk. Mitsu either needs to bump up the hp numbers or drop the starting price by offering a MT. But most importantly, Mitsu needs spend money to highlight and market the strengths of the Lancer lineup (i.e. SE and Ralliart awd system, 10yr warranty, etc.).
subyski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 01:00 PM   #55
illmatic
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3536
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: SD, OC
Vehicle:
2013 SWP BRZ Limited
2002/2003 AW/PSM WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Point being, XT is not, nor never has been considered a drivers car from the factory. Too many different variables resulting in an odd pairing of utility and oh eff mercy. Mitsu could probably add AYC to an Outlander Turbo and make it ridiculous around corners. It would be an interesting and compelling package. Not that MMNA would spend a dime marketing it, though.
There is a video of an SOJ engineer saying the new FXT is almost up to par to the last generation Forester STi.
illmatic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 01:03 PM   #56
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Don't forget 4) Spend money on marketing.

Except for the EVO, no body really knows the Lancer cars exists. For most enthusiasts, car fans, new drivers, it's EVO or bust but more often bust because of price. Most don't know the Lancer lineup includes awd SE and Ralliart models, which can be good "entry-level" and "stepping stone" models to the flagship EVO or other Mitsu products.
Mitsubishi does some marketing for target markets. I lived in Newport Beach, CA for a number of years, and I remember how before the Outlander Sport went on sale, there were a group of them driving through Newport Blvd. (which, when going through the Newport peninsula, is really crowded with a lot of foot traffic, especially during the summer season), and a lot of them had promotional stickers on them, some of which were advertising whatever mpg figure it had. Once they were on sale, I actually saw a lot of them on the road in that area.

The marketing for the rest of the lineup has more or less died down and has been restricted to online stuff, but the regular Lancer had a lot of commercials on TV when it first launched, and even before the Evo came out, from what I remember. I only recall seeing the Evo in one Lancer commercial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Ever since the Ralliart hit the market, I only recall seeing one on public streets and have yet to cross an awd Lancer SE and I live in Colorado where Subaru Imprezas, WRXs, & STIs are very popular.
But the issue is that Ralliarts and Lancer SEs are VERY similar to the regular Lancer, so they all blend in with each other, which isn't helped by the fact that much of the Lancer lineup today all shares that same grille, plus a lot of Lancer owners paint their bumpers or swap them out. So they're harder to distinguish from each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
The issue with the Ralliart are the numbers (high price and low HP numbers). I know this doesn't tell the whole story of a car as it does have a good FI engine that is highly tunable, AWC awd, good transmission, EVO bits. But throw in the low rent interior, the general public looks at the starting price, HP numbers, and for some no MT, they walk. Mitsu either needs to bump up the hp numbers or drop the starting price by offering a MT. But most importantly, Mitsu needs spend money to highlight and market the strengths of the Lancer lineup (i.e. SE and Ralliart awd system, 10yr warranty, etc.).
Yeah, the price doesn't help. Once you throw the Recaros in there, it really isn't that far from the Evo X GSR's starting price, which is worth the premium for the extras. While an MT would help reduce the Ralliart's price, it probably helped with reducing the production costs of the TC-SST.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 01:23 PM   #57
EvoXtoWRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 304819
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Arizona
Default

There are a couple things I see wrong with Mitsubishi after owning two Evo's..
(VIII and X)

1. Service - Customer service is awful at dealerships. And most times they rake you over the coals when you had to get anything done.

2. Marketing - This was mentioned before, but how could such a big company not advertise the cars the are trying to sell? I mean really...nobody is going to buy. Seriously the only car that makes money for mitsu is the car they are going to kill off (EVO). maybe the outlander...I can't remember the last time I saw a commercial on tv for a mitsubishi car of anykind??
Personally some of the best years for the evo were the more rally inspired models (2003-2006).

Thats really about it..but if they really get rid of the evo..they will be done.

my .02
EvoXtoWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 02:29 PM   #58
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2013 STI Sport-tech

Default

It's different up here at least in my part of Canada as the Subaru dealerships are awful and the Mitsubishi ones really good to deal with.

I feel my 2008 EVO X was actually a very solid car and I never had a problem outside of having to bring my car back after 100 kms for a CEL which was solved with the upgraded tune as 2008 EVO's had a ridiculously rich factory tune that wasn't really fixed until the 2010 models rolled out that were much faster stock. It had the same crappy paint as my STI and equally cheap interior but I prefered the engine as it was less peaky than the EJ25 and made more power off a simple Acessport tune than the STI does. The main difference is the steering and handling in the EVO feels so much better. As bad a rep as Mitsubishi gets I actually feel that car was more solid and better put together than my STI.
heavyD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 03:27 PM   #59
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: NWIC<-1<3->BAIC
Vehicle:
'14 Twatever fits
in your narrowtive...

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by illmatic View Post
There is a video of an SOJ engineer saying the new FXT is almost up to par to the last generation Forester STi.
As someone who has had 2 complete STI suspended FXT's, after driving the '14, I will kindly disagree with that engineer. And I like the '14 FXT a lot.

I'm not saying Subaru should stop making a FXT, or that it sucks. To the contrary. I am saying Mitsu should make the Airtrek, or Outlander Turbo variants of the standard version and Sport to compete with the Forester XT. Just make them handle as good as the Mazda CX-5. That car is a benchmark in the segment. NOT the new Forester.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 04:09 PM   #60
Dmochowski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 306478
Join Date: Jan 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: chattanooga, TN
Vehicle:
2012 WRX limited
305whp/360tq TSM tuned

Default

With regards to the marketing aspect, it seems they go in waves. I will see ads for a few months on TV during primetime for the Outlander Sport like the 1 sliding through a tower of champagne glasses that was a cool add. But then I don't see any advertisements for 4 months, then I see maybe a couple weeks of ads for the fullsized suv then and again nothing... On the other hand I can't have a day go by where I don't see a Subaru ad. Its almost as if they don't want to commit to investing in the brand in NA. They do well in asia and other markets. I remember seeing mitsu turbo diesel trucks all over Europe they were very popular.
Dmochowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 06:25 PM   #61
ZacDaMan72
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 358806
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region: International
Vehicle:
2012 WRX Sedan
Plasma Blue Silica

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_knoxville View Post
what updates has the STI made? not speculative, talked about always upcoming in the future updates, but actual SOA available to the public updates. seems the 2014 version is still using the same engine as 2004, same performance, same transmission, same gas mileage, same mandatory big ass wing. and the legacy gt? gone.
The Legacy GT in its current gen before the facelift was absolutely rubbish.


But after the facelift (with a few mods) it's not too bad but I still prefer the last gen.
ZacDaMan72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 07:48 PM   #62
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

I would do unmentionable things for that white Legacy GT
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 08:57 PM   #63
A W
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 265433
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Kids, shut it.

"Drivers Car" is a car that has a certain spirit to it, and not a "Point A to Point B" appliance. Stop being pedantic.

--kC
That's an "enthusiast's car." An enthusiast may be a driver but a driver is not always an enthusiast. ;D If you want to argue semantics, a person operating a motorized vehicle is a driver. However you're welcome to believe the definition is otherwise. And a "car" is a mode of transportation so in essence you're still driving an "appliance" no matter how much spirit a non-living object has.

A W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 09:02 PM   #64
A W
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 265433
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSubaab View Post
Well, that got a laugh out of me, thanks :-). Are you 7 years old?
You obviously didn't read the TOS when creating an account on NASIOC did you?
A W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 09:09 PM   #65
DeeezNuuuts83
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34406
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:
2006 Evolution IX
graphite gray

Default

Enthusiast's cars to me were cars that had a big following because they're performance-oriented in some way, which does include driver's cars, which to me are cars that are generally more involving while their fun factor revolves around what happens when you give it certain inputs (particularly through the steering wheel or the pedals) rather than its actual performance specs and are almost always enthusiast cars as well. For example, a GT-R is an enthusiast's car but not a driver's car. But something like a Cayman is both. Even a Miata could fall in that category.
DeeezNuuuts83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #66
SilverSubaab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 88288
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Central MA
Vehicle:
2014 VW GLI

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A W View Post

You obviously didn't read the TOS when creating an account on NASIOC did you?
Troll or are you really this stupid.........? Either way, I'm done with this thread. Goodnight and good luck..........
SilverSubaab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #67
A W
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 265433
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
Enthusiast's cars to me were cars that had a big following because they're performance-oriented in some way, which does include driver's cars, which to me are cars that are generally more involving while their fun factor revolves around what happens when you give it certain inputs (particularly through the steering wheel or the pedals) rather than its actual performance specs and are almost always enthusiast cars as well. For example, a GT-R is an enthusiast's car but not a driver's car. But something like a Cayman is both. Even a Miata could fall in that category.
;D Yes but to define a "driver's car" as always being an enthusiast's car is incorrect. Unless of course we're on a forum by the name of NABISCO and users of such a forum define a "sports car" as a fast car that has nothing to do with handling and low weight (which is completely the opposite of the agreed modern definition).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSubaab View Post
Troll or are you really this stupid.........? Either way, I'm done with this thread. Goodnight and good luck..........
We care. Good riddance.
A W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 10:42 PM   #68
Dmochowski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 306478
Join Date: Jan 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: chattanooga, TN
Vehicle:
2012 WRX limited
305whp/360tq TSM tuned

Default

http://welovedrivecars.com/2015-mitsubishi-galant/

Quote:
Mitsubishi plans to in the future focus on the U.S. market, which is further confirmed by the statements of the heads of these companies who state that the offer can be expected in 2015 Galant and replace Montero Sport model.An official statement said that customers can expect many surprises many of which will be presented during this year’s fair maintenance of motor vehicles in Tokyo, whose maintenance is expected in late November.
New galant concept still looks bad...
Dmochowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 10:50 PM   #69
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2010 Evolution X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A W View Post
;D Yes but to define a "driver's car" as always being an enthusiast's car is incorrect. Unless of course we're on a forum by the name of NABISCO and users of such a forum define a "sports car" as a fast car that has nothing to do with handling and low weight (which is completely the opposite of the agreed modern definition).
Every Automobile publication defines "Drivers Car" as a car that tends to excel at all of the functions of a sporting vehicle.

https://www.google.com/search?q="drivers+cars"

First Definition that came up:
"The term "driver's car" gets bandied about a lot in automotive media. Simply put, driver's cars are all about enjoying the on-road experience on a visceral level"
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 10:51 PM   #70
Gixhost
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 180111
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Land of Ham, MD
Vehicle:
* 2004.114.3 STi
Aspen White

Default

I wish Mitsubishi would step up their game. Just about everything in their current portfolio was good on its initial release...however they've let everything get old and the competition is fierce. Then they drop this POS Mirage on us...with American and Korean brands giving their Japanese counterparts a run for their money...there is really no room for weakness...if Mitsubishi doesn't pull out of the US, I'd be surprised...but I don't wish to see it. The Lancer did its job and paved the way for a come back IMO...the engineers and designers behind that vehicle deserve a pat on the back. However, nothing followed that act...with the exception of maybe the Outlander Sport which isn't a bread and butter vehicle.
Gixhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 10:55 PM   #71
skatin707
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 251552
Join Date: Jul 2010
Chapter/Region: HIIC
Location: Honolulu, HI
Vehicle:
2014 FXT
Satin White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post

As someone who has had 2 complete STI suspended FXT's, after driving the '14, I will kindly disagree with that engineer. And I like the '14 FXT a lot.
I don't think putting a car's suspension on an "suv" is the same as using the performance engineered suspension made specifically for the SUV.

You definitely aren't giving the stock USDM fxt credit. I also don't think you have put much time behind the wheel of the 2014 FXT.
skatin707 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 10:58 PM   #72
skatin707
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 251552
Join Date: Jul 2010
Chapter/Region: HIIC
Location: Honolulu, HI
Vehicle:
2014 FXT
Satin White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A W View Post

That's an "enthusiast's car." An enthusiast may be a driver but a driver is not always an enthusiast. ;D If you want to argue semantics, a person operating a motorized vehicle is a driver. However you're welcome to believe the definition is otherwise. And a "car" is a mode of transportation so in essence you're still driving an "appliance" no matter how much spirit a non-living object has.

A driver is an enthusiast, that's why they are called driver's cars.

Everything below that is a commuter.

A car is a piece of equipment to enjoy your hobby, not an appliance.
skatin707 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:43 PM   #73
A W
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 265433
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
Every Automobile publication defines "Drivers Car" as a car that tends to excel at all of the functions of a sporting vehicle.

https://www.google.com/search?q="drivers+cars"

First Definition that came up:
"The term "driver's car" gets bandied about a lot in automotive media. Simply put, driver's cars are all about enjoying the on-road experience on a visceral level"
In a Mitsubishi there's no doubt you'd feel a "visceral" on-road experience unless you're numb to feeling pain or comfort from a drug. The cheap plastic and firm seat padding transmit a lot from the road.

"Enjoying" and feeling are relative to the driver so someone like grandma can "enjoy the on-road experience on a visceral level" in even a Corolla.

A Corolla is still a "car" so someone who says a car isn't an "appliance" is at odds with the enthusiast, oh excuse me, driver community since most people in that community seem to believe the Corolla is the bane of existence for the driver community.
A W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 11:45 PM   #74
A W
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 265433
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmochowski View Post
http://welovedrivecars.com/2015-mitsubishi-galant/



New galant concept still looks bad...
Remove the logo and put four interlocking rings on the grill. It might as well look the same.
A W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 01:11 AM   #75
Optimus Prime
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69847
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cybertron
Vehicle:
2010 Evolution X

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A W View Post
In a Mitsubishi there's no doubt you'd feel a "visceral" on-road experience unless you're numb to feeling pain or comfort from a drug. The cheap plastic and firm seat padding transmit a lot from the road.

"Enjoying" and feeling are relative to the driver so someone like grandma can "enjoy the on-road experience on a visceral level" in even a Corolla.

A Corolla is still a "car" so someone who says a car isn't an "appliance" is at odds with the enthusiast, oh excuse me, driver community since most people in that community seem to believe the Corolla is the bane of existence for the driver community.
This argument would be the same as people saying Kate Upton is hot, and one person is arguing that she must have a fever. The general populace uses "driver's car" as a description of an overall well performing vehicle and everyone understands what the term means without question.

Also the enjoyment of something is usually based upon a consensus of the experience. Have you ever gone to an amusement park with stationary roller coasters? There might be someone who takes enjoyment in just sitting in one, but most people find the speed and loops the thrilling part...just like a real driver enjoys speed and handling.

And my Evo is way more comfortable than my STi was, but yes, it is still a "Driver's car".
Optimus Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.