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Old 10-30-2013, 03:45 PM   #51
Dave D.
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Originally Posted by manitou View Post
That's pretty good and short gearing to do the 50-100 pull in 4th. It's funny with my long ratio gearing and tall tires I do the 50-100 in 3rd gear. My third gear goes out to 110 at a bit over 8k.

You should take that box off and do a pull!
Well, I did hand-time a 5.4 without the box. But now I really want a Dom 1.5. A guy posted a 3.6 second 50-100 video with an E-85-tuned 1.5. I figure even without the corn syrup I could break into the fours.

All I need is a little extra cash...
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:12 PM   #52
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I don't know what was going on in that video, but I don't believe that time for a second. That would be pretty close to 600WHP to do a time like that. I wouldn't expect to be more than about mid-4's with a DOM 1.5XTR, even with a single gear pull. I didn't actually time that yet, so maybe his calculation was just off or it was in km/h or something, haha.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:59 PM   #53
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I don't know what was going on in that video, but I don't believe that time for a second. That would be pretty close to 600WHP to do a time like that. I wouldn't expect to be more than about mid-4's with a DOM 1.5XTR, even with a single gear pull. I didn't actually time that yet, so maybe his calculation was just off or it was in km/h or something, haha.
Your argument has some sense to it, as I double-checked your 20xgt runs, and even at your 27psi E-85 runs you were generating 4.4 sec. It seems the two turbos are extremely similar. A very large differential to account for.

Last edited by Dave D.; 10-30-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:58 PM   #54
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If it was possible to run a 3.6 sec. 50-100 with a Dom 1.5 in a full weight car then we'd all be running that turbo. Maybe in a 1600-1800 lb. car!

I logged a 4.19 sec. 50-100 pull with my Dom. 3.5 at 25 psi using just 3rd gear, 3900-7600 rpm.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:42 PM   #55
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:48 AM   #56
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Thanks for posting the link. We have this catalog and it along with my buddy Justin at Precision supplied most of the PTE info here. Did you think we guessed or just winged it? LOL
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:52 AM   #57
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Thanks for posting the link. We have this catalog and it along with my buddy Justin at Precision supplied most of the PTE info here. Did you think we guessed or just winged it? LOL
I'm sure you used a catalog, but seemingly missed most of the borg warners that people are actually putting on cars, the s200-s400 line and all their varients should not be forgotten.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:53 AM   #58
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I'm sure you used a catalog, but seemingly missed most of the borg warners that people are actually putting on cars, the s200-s400 line and all their varients should not be forgotten.
I'm sure you mean well but I think you're mistaken here. We did stop at the S366/ 9180. So we did omit the S400's but they aren't what you'd call the more popular BW turbos.
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:11 AM   #59
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I'm sure you mean well but I think you're mistaken here. We did stop at the S366/ 9180. So we did omit the S400's but they aren't what you'd call the more popular BW turbos.
Isn't the 4 digit numbering convention the older way of naming the turbos?
i know the EFR line picked up on 4 digit convention, but searching the 2013 catalog for "9180" only yields EFR turbos...

Ie. I have Borg Warner turbo part number 317246, which does not cross reference the 7670 listed in table.

s256 (page 36 in the .pdf catalog)
Comp. Inducer 56mm
Turbine Inducer 74mm
Turbine Exducer 65mm
Compressor flow 58 lb/min
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:10 AM   #60
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Manitou, you know when you look at the blouch figures, it makes you wonder two things. Either the turbo's are inefficient or terribly under-rated.

TO the general community and if you dont see a lot of results on them, you think inefficient.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:04 AM   #61
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I don't plan on trying to make this an all encompassing list. That begins to defeat the purpose (ie. easy to read). If there are enough requests for a certain turbo, then I will add it, but if it's just a one off, then it's not too hard to look up the specs yourself and compare them to the common turbo's in the table.

I agree that Blouch's ratings seem very conservative. That may be on purpose. I don't think they have quite the same level of testing equipment available as the bigger companies. Without a flow map, I would assume those max flow ratings are just estimates. From what I've seen, the Blouch turbo's do quite favorably compared to the flow ratings.

Here's a new turbo I am going to be trying out. It is a TD06SL2 with GTX3071 compressor.



I may add it to the list if the results are good and it becomes more popular. The specs look pretty good. Something similar to a Dom 2.5XTR or Garret GTX3071R, but with the journal bearing center section to save cost. Time will tell if the trade off is worth it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:19 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by west_minist View Post
Manitou, you know when you look at the blouch figures, it makes you wonder two things. Either the turbo's are inefficient or terribly under-rated. TO the general community and if you dont see a lot of results on them, you think inefficient.
I think it's partially about the Subaru stock location housings holding back the flow rating and partially that they are underrated. I really feel the Blouch turbos are underrated, I once asked Mike Malin about compressor maps and they have them but are not willing to make them public. They are also not far from the ratings of the FP SL turbos.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:23 AM   #63
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It seem ridiculous if they have compressor maps not to release them. I hope that's not true.

Most of the other turbo's max flow ratings are based on the compressor maps so they wouldn't account for any housing limitations.
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:46 AM   #64
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It more seems like marketing and nothing else to make you wonder. I have only played around the Dom 1.5 and there flow max works well on pump gas. Not sure on race gas. Let me show you something. I hope it doesnt through off this forum nor I am trying to sell my service.

I have done a tremendous amount of work on the JDM 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX S-GT 2.0 5MT. Please review here for more info http://www.xtremeracingtuning.com/fo...php?f=40&t=468

CF=1. I dont deal with DynoJet figures exaggerated figures.

In tuning a few other of this same car, it is restricted to 240-250whp. The IHI VF47 TwinScroll turbo seems similar to the compressor map below:




Below is the power @ 20psi on pump gas mix with VP RallyMax. VP109 is not up to marks. RallyMax cost more than even Q16 or C16.




All types of tuning, we could not get pass the max power. Below is the same car. We were never expecting this amount of power increase. Completely blows you away. Is Blouch like this???? No real figures can be found.



The tq was a little lower because of a different road we use which was slightly up hill and not as flat as the road use with mix gas.


Below is another 100% stock S-GT with just a boost controller and set to 15psi. Stock boost is 12psi.



It just makes me wonder on Blouch. It really doesn't make sense to their behaviour. The turbos are not like the precision or BW, so dont see why all the secrecy and yet limit results out there.

I have a customer who had a FP and he just dont believe Blouch can do better than FP and feel the subaru community just wanna sell the Blouch. Its time Blouch show more results or state real work results.

Or maybe Blouch postings are on pump gas, but shines more on Race gas?!?!?!?!?

Last edited by west_minist; 11-03-2013 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:54 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by xluben View Post
It seem ridiculous if they have compressor maps not to release them. I hope that's not true.

Most of the other turbo's max flow ratings are based on the compressor maps so they wouldn't account for any housing limitations.
Its one of the reason I kind of disregard blouch when considering turbos. Especially now that steam speed says they can build the same turbos as blouch (subie turbine housings with garrett BB charas and whatever turbine and comp wheels you want).
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:14 AM   #66
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It seem ridiculous if they have compressor maps not to release them. I hope that's not true. Most of the other turbo's max flow ratings are based on the compressor maps so they wouldn't account for any housing limitations.
Don't quote me on this please. I'm going from memory (which is sometimes sketchy) on the conversation I had with Mike and I don't want to paint a negative picture of Blouch.

BW does not publish the turbine wheel size on the EFR's, why because it's a secret they don't wan to share. At least that is what I was told.
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Its one of the reason I kind of disregard blouch when considering turbos. Especially now that steam speed says they can build the same turbos as blouch (subie turbine housings with garrett BB charas and whatever turbine and comp wheels you want).
Why would you disregard Blouch when considering turbos? That's crazy they're innovative, build excellent product, will customize if requested and their customer service is excellent!

Kamak seems to be making some nice turbos but I'd rather give my money to a US manufacturer like Blouch (or Precision) with proven products and good customer service. Good luck with the CS and Kamak, maybe they'll be ok but who knows. Talk is cheap as we all know.
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Originally Posted by west_minist View Post
It more seems like marketing and nothing else to make you wonder. I have only played around the Dom 1.5 and there flow max works well on pump gas. Not sure on race gas. Let me show you something. I hope it doesnt through off this forum nor I am trying to sell my service.

It just makes me wonder on Blouch. It really doesn't make sense to their behaviour. The turbos are not like the precision or BW, so dont see why all the secrecy and yet limit results out there.

I have a customer who had a FP and he just dont believe Blouch can do better than FP and feel the subaru community just wanna sell the Blouch. Its time Blouch show more results or state real work results.

Or maybe Blouch postings are on pump gas, but shines more on Race gas?!?!?!?!?
Compressor maps don't tell the whole story anyway, they don't really take housings into consideration. I can understand if Blouch does not want to publish the comp map. Some will take the comp map as gospel and if they don't hit the number they think they bash the vendor. I have a feeling the comp wheels on Blouch xt turbos are very efficient but somewhat limited by the SL housings. There is nothing wrong with a vendor stating a flow rating and all the flow ratings by the turbo manufacturers are based on a good 93 octane pump gas, not E85 or race has. So you have to figure depending on the size of the turbo that you can see an additional 50-100whp more than there rating on E85.

Last edited by manitou; 11-02-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:44 AM   #67
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It's like once you put a company's product on your car you feel they can do no wrong.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:17 PM   #68
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Compressor maps don't tell the whole story anyway, they don't really take housings into consideration. I can understand if Blouch does not want to publish the comp map. Some will take the comp map as gospel and if they don't hit the number they think they bash the vendor. I have a feeling the comp wheels on Blouch xt turbos are very efficient but somewhat limited by the SL housings. There is nothing wrong with a vendor stating a flow rating and all the flow ratings by the turbo manufacturers are based on a good 93 octane pump gas, not E85 or race has. So you have to figure depending on the size of the turbo that you can see an additional 50-100whp more than there rating on E85.
What I am really saying, the community have to discover that is is great. Otherwise you neither here nor there.

I am looking forward to tune the 3.5XTR. Even the 3.0. I will see pump gas w/ meth and then race fuel. Will post results. Would love to do so for xmas. I am hoping he chose the Dom 4.0XTR, but we dond have cams in. We will be building 2 engines. So 3.0 for road and 4.0 for race.

Last edited by west_minist; 11-03-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Don't quote me on this please. I'm going from memory (which is sometimes sketchy) on the conversation I had with Mike and I don't want to paint a negative picture of Blouch.

BW does not publish the turbine wheel size on the EFR's, why because it's a secret they don't wan to share. At least that is what I was told.

Why would you disregard Blouch when considering turbos? That's crazy they're innovative, build excellent product, will customize if requested and their customer service is excellent!

Kamak seems to be making some nice turbos but I'd rather give my money to a US manufacturer like Blouch (or Precision) with proven products and good customer service. Good luck with the CS and Kamak, maybe they'll be ok but who knows. Talk is cheap as we all know.

Compressor maps don't tell the whole story anyway, they don't really take housings into consideration. I can understand if Blouch does not want to publish the comp map. Some will take the comp map as gospel and if they don't hit the number they think they bash the vendor. I have a feeling the comp wheels on Blouch xt turbos are very efficient but somewhat limited by the SL housings. There is nothing wrong with a vendor stating a flow rating and all the flow ratings by the turbo manufacturers are based on a good 93 octane pump gas, not E85 or race has. So you have to figure depending on the size of the turbo that you can see an additional 50-100whp more than there rating on E85.
How the heck are you supposed to come up with your boost target table and have any idea what the heck the turbo is going to do besides randomly guessing if you dont have the compressor map then you are tarting to tune? Who knows, blouch could be giving up area and efficiency on the left to gain it on the right or vice versa and that might not be exactly what you want for your particular build. Its like buying a built engine without even knowing what the strong, bore, and cams are, just that it has forged guts.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:42 AM   #70
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That's true, so you have to go about discovering it for yourself.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #71
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Great thread, alot of info on turbos!!! Does any one know the "trim" of the FPGreen HTA? I tried asking FP but didnt get any response so I figured my subaru friends could help me out lol.

Thanks in advance
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:04 AM   #72
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One thing about Blouch, you would get one.

Please see the file http://www.xtremeracingtuning.com/fo...le.php?id=1334
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:23 AM   #73
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Trim is the (inducer of the wheel / exducer) *100 remember that the inducer and exducer are the opposite from turbin and compressor wheels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew94 View Post
Great thread, alot of info on turbos!!! Does any one know the "trim" of the FPGreen HTA? I tried asking FP but didnt get any response so I figured my subaru friends could help me out lol. Thanks in advance
I don't have the trims as FP just gave me wheels sizes. The trim formula is above as fastblueufo stated.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:19 PM   #74
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I don't have the trims as FP just gave me wheels sizes. The trim formula is above as fastblueufo stated.
I added Kamak. You can find the trims in the file.
http://www.xtremeracingtuning.com/fo...le.php?id=1345
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:55 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
How the heck are you supposed to come up with your boost target table and have any idea what the heck the turbo is going to do besides randomly guessing if you dont have the compressor map then you are tarting to tune? Who knows, blouch could be giving up area and efficiency on the left to gain it on the right or vice versa and that might not be exactly what you want for your particular build. Its like buying a built engine without even knowing what the strong, bore, and cams are, just that it has forged guts.
Valid points for sure but I don't know anyone that is a having a tough time tuning their turbos.

You should make a request to Blouch to publish their compressor maps. I can talk to Mike Malin at Blouch and ask him if they would consider this if they have the maps. The more requests they have the more likely they will publish them.
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