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Old 10-12-2013, 07:30 PM   #1
whitewater_ncsc
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Default Primary open loop fueling table not used at WOT during spool up ?

Hi guys,

I need some insight here. I have been having some issue trying to tune my spool up fueling enrichment, there is clearly something that I am missing. First some details :

Car 2010 STI
CL/OL delay 0
Both KCA Add low/high are equal

And here is my fueling table :




Here is what I get when I go WOT around 3000 RPM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&usp=sharing

As you can see from load of 2.19 to 2.19, I log values for primary open loop ranging from 12.x to 11.68. Not quite what my table are calling for.

Why is that ?

Thanks
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:59 PM   #2
Dillinja666
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maybe something in the fuel compensation tables?
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:57 AM   #3
whitewater_ncsc
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Thanks for getting back, there doesn't seem to be alot of compensation tables for OL. The only one that has value in my case is the ECT compensation but the car was warm and there is no compoensation in those ranges

Do other people see their car switching to the table value as soon as they are in OL ? Maybe there is an issue with my definition ?
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:23 AM   #4
quazimoto
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Just because x value is in the openloop table it doesn't mean that is exactly what you are going to get. The accuracy of the MAF scaling is one variable and tip-in enrichment is another. Of course there are plenty of other factors/variables as well.
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:37 PM   #5
whitewater_ncsc
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Hi,

Make sense, my MAF seems to be scaled within 5% so far so I think its okay. If we assume that this is the case let me give you an example of what I am currently fighting and trying to fix.

I have set the following fuel targets :
From 0-10 psi ramp to 12.0 AFR
15+ psi boost = 10.8

Here is a case that doesn't fit that envolope and that I am trying to tune out. WOT starting at 3200 rpm in 4th. Here is my boost (purple) vs AFR (cyan)

Attached log is :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...sTXpPaGc#gid=0
I find that I am a bit lean 13 AFR at 10 PSI, I want 12. I am also lean after.

To fix this, I would enrich 3200-3400 1.75-2.5 region by a point. Does that make sense ?
Thanks
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:35 PM   #6
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So have you added fuel around the maf voltage your hitting in that load and rpm range? or just trying to add fuel in the open loop fueling table?
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:47 AM   #7
whitewater_ncsc
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Just trying to add fuel in the open loop fuel table. Good or bad idea ?
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:40 AM   #8
quazimoto
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What is your "D" range fueling correction?
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:58 AM   #9
whitewater_ncsc
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Hi,

My D learned is 0 because I changed the ranges so that D always stay 0. Everything else is within 3-5%.

I did some changes and enriched the load site around 1.75-2.5 @ 3200 rpm and my wideband seems to be trending down. See this other run I am now at 12.3 AFR around 10 PSI of boost so I think things are getting closer to where I want them. Seems like you guys were right.





So in general its pretty clean, I did a bunch of 4/5/6 spool up runs on the highway at various RPM and things were much improved. What do you guys think ?


I did however have one instance of knock in 6th gear outside of spool where I got -1.4 and a few samples later another one bringing it to -2.8. I didn't really like that. And this one is puzzling me a bit.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing

Basically, I was around 3k rpm, timing between 9-8.5 and running about 10.1 AFR which it seems the ECU called for at some point but that's not really in my tables. Boost was around 15 psi

Anyhow I got two knock even and I am a bit surprised about this given this is around stock timing/boost level but I need to fix that. So here is what I was thinking :

Should I try to reduce timing a bit in higher gear around these load ? I thought 9/8 degree wasn't a boatload.

Could I be knocking because I was too rich ?

What's the best way to approach this one

Thanks
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:28 PM   #10
fastblueufo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewater_ncsc View Post
Hi,

My D learned is 0 because I changed the ranges so that D always stay 0. Everything else is within 3-5%.

I did some changes and enriched the load site around 1.75-2.5 @ 3200 rpm and my wideband seems to be trending down. See this other run I am now at 12.3 AFR around 10 PSI of boost so I think things are getting closer to where I want them. Seems like you guys were right.





So in general its pretty clean, I did a bunch of 4/5/6 spool up runs on the highway at various RPM and things were much improved. What do you guys think ?


I did however have one instance of knock in 6th gear outside of spool where I got -1.4 and a few samples later another one bringing it to -2.8. I didn't really like that. And this one is puzzling me a bit.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing

Basically, I was around 3k rpm, timing between 9-8.5 and running about 10.1 AFR which it seems the ECU called for at some point but that's not really in my tables. Boost was around 15 psi

Anyhow I got two knock even and I am a bit surprised about this given this is around stock timing/boost level but I need to fix that. So here is what I was thinking :

Should I try to reduce timing a bit in higher gear around these load ? I thought 9/8 degree wasn't a boatload.

Could I be knocking because I was too rich ?

What's the best way to approach this one

Thanks
If it wasnt in every log then it could just be pulling timing from to high intercooler temp, not iat, but if it is random then the ecu is just doing what its supposed to do and I would let it be. If its in every log then yes, I would prol see if you could tune it out but, -2* isnt a sign of major det and wont hurt anything.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:35 PM   #11
whitewater_ncsc
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Fastblue,

I appreciate this thanks !
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #12
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So are you scaling the maf? Or just wacking the open loop table?
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:35 PM   #13
whitewater_ncsc
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Sacking the open loop table for now. I feel like its probably the best thing to do since I am not that far maybe 0.5 so around 5%.

Given that I am a bit new to this, I also feel that playing with the OL table has a more localized effect as opposed to playing with the MAF limiting the scope of my changes.

Agree/Disagree ?

Thanks
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:52 PM   #14
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disagree, need to scale the maf. wacking the open loop fueling will never get you close. You need to tune the maf. your afr reading compared to the your open loop map being off pretty much proves this. Maf scaling is one of the most importing things to understand how it works and why when tuning a subaru... Or any maf based car for that matter.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:04 PM   #15
whitewater_ncsc
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Ok,

Thanks for the feedback, I know what you are saying, it would be nice to have my table values and actual fuelling closer that within 5%. The only thing that keeps me from doing it right now is that I think that my fuel curve is relatively okay and it's been QA'd quite a bit ...

12.5 about 10 psi, 10.5 around 15+. (sounds about right ?)

While scaling my MAF would correct this consistent 5% error, it would require me to re-test my fuel. Other than removing that 5% DC offset between my table and actual values. Anything else that I would gain by doing this ?

Thanks !
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:45 PM   #16
Drewswrx
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If you're still seeing knock then instead of playing with your ignition timing take out some on your DA table. When I was tuning my car I was seeing knock at a certain range and I added fuel at first. I found that my timing numbers for that range were good so I went ahead and reduced Dynamic Advance and it took that knock away.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:06 AM   #17
whitewater_ncsc
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Interesting, now isn't this equivalent to reducing timing ?

Thanks for your reply
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewater_ncsc View Post
Interesting, now isn't this equivalent to reducing timing ?

Thanks for your reply
yes it is but instead of playing with the primary ignition numbers I keep a universal number in the DA tables so I know while I add timing my DA won't be all over the place.
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