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Old 10-22-2013, 09:22 AM   #26
bilt2run
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back in 01' I dynoed my turbo miata at 5 different dynos, dynojets and one dynodynamics here on Long Island. This was also over a 4-5 week span and they all read within 2-3hp and I the dynodynamics was set at 1.15.
At that time it was making around 330whp but yrs later even at well over 500 going to the dynojets or dynodynamics was still within 5 or so...
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:30 AM   #27
Innovative Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkumaMotorsports View Post
The problem also being if the correction factors are turned-up, then we have to deal with our current customer base and how they are going to react to numbers they received and numbers new clientele are receiving.

Again, the understanding needs to be there if we do come up with a reasonable "K-factor" so they can calculate the older readings to the newer ones. This is where things get sticky, as you stated the educated clients (understanding dyno numbers) will understand, but the not so educated may not and hence business can be lost.

-Dave
FWIW none of mine cared that I know of. All our dyno graphs after the change say "2012+ dyno settings". People who didn't know what it meant asked and then understood.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:05 AM   #28
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What gear was were the pulls done for each car?
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:05 PM   #29
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John,

I went through nearly the exact same thing at the beginning of 2012. I always posted numbers corrected down to real Mustang calibration (.85 CF on our Dynocom Dyno) and always got defensive when people said they were low or when others pointed out higher numbers. I held onto it for a loong time and eventually realized it just wasn't worth the fight. Although I still think in Mustang numbers because I'm most used to them, I now provide charts to all my customers with both calibrations. That way they can compare against different types of dynos. It's funny as most people still comment that the lower numbers are "real" and the higher are just ego boosters. I also find that different markets tend to like different calibrations better. The local Subaru crowd is used to Mustang, as is the GTR crowd. The Corvette/Camaro guys as well as most of the random stuff we has come in for baselines are much more used to the native Dynocom/Dynojet calibration.

The point is, just forget about the crusade for low numbers, there's really no point in the end as long as the customer is happy.

-- Ed
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:18 PM   #30
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Xilles:

The gear was 4th for both vehicles.

Ed,

Thanks for your input and agree with the customer being happy, that is what is most important.

-Dave

Last edited by AkumaMotorsports; 10-24-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:45 PM   #31
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So what your establishing here is what we've all known for the past 1-2 years? Your dyno reads really low? We get it. Your dyno read low. Lets all move on. hahaha. J/k with you guys but High/Low dyno number conversations are moot now. You either get it or you dont and if u dont then you never will. Its a number, it means nothing. Drag Strip 1/4 Mile is the proving grounds
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:32 PM   #32
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For car 2 what happens when you bring the filter level from 50 on your dyno down to 30 like when the car was tuned at the other shop? higher filter number will make the tune look more smooth but will also drop the power out put reading a bit.

Same with the first car. the X dyno had filter at 25, where as the akuma dyno filter is 55...
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkumaMotorsports View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Very well said and we do agree, but why not give it a shot at least locally. Yes, I understand that the dyno numbers are a "Marketing" tool to gain clientele etc. (not just a tuning tool to the public). As I stated earlier I was too confused with my dyno numbers when I first started tuning my car. The problem also being if the correction factors are turned-up, then we have to deal with our current customer base and how they are going to react to numbers they received and numbers new clientele are receiving.

Again, the understanding needs to be there if we do come up with a reasonable "K-factor" so they can calculate the older readings to the newer ones. This is where things get sticky, as you stated the educated clients (understanding dyno numbers) will understand, but the not so educated may not and hence business can be lost.

-Dave
"Deal" with the old customers by providing a dyno re-run for a price that at least covers your cost. It would probably benefit both you and the older customers you have tuned simply be providing more data on the new calibration.

On the point about getting each dyno in your area to read the same I LOVE it, never understood how there was not a standard created for all dynos produced after a specified date. Seems simple enough to me seeing nearly everything else works off standardization. Sure the older dynos would still be different but at some point they would be replaced and BOOM a standard.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:18 PM   #34
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One horsepower should be one horsepower dammit!
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:23 PM   #35
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The filter will have little to zero effect. Especially in this context.

I will work with Mustang(hopefully) to get a calibration file that will be closer to marketable numbers. My issue is more related to consistency at this point. I want to be sure a car dynoed in December will perform similarly to one in June. I understand temp differentials, but it should be marginally predictable...the difference in ambient and its effect on the numbers. This is assuming the car has the 'right' mods to handle the differing ambient temps.

I will keep everyone updated as to what I find. Thanks.


I am 100% over the 'heartbreaker' dyno disclaimers...lol

john
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:05 PM   #36
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You guys seem to be trying to do what is right. Being a tuner and dyno owner, can you answer this for me?

Why isnt there a Standard unit to calibrate a dyno with, or should i say to?

For example: A graph showing kw per second@rpm

The measuring device, a current meter could be calibrated.

Another question that bugs me is weather, altitude corrections. Why not just show measured values, then show compensated values on the side.

People forget that you actually can and do make more power at lower altitude and cooler conditions.

One more. I know there are different configurations of dynos, and mustang and dynojet are brand names.

Some say they have a mustang dyno, but then state mustang and dynojet numbers. They "convert" between the two different dynos, with a standard "calculation". Is there really a formula or just a guess based on experience?

Not everyone is familliar with all the differences on what can make one car be 500 hp on one dyno and 400 hp on another.

Its like everyone has their own measuring tape. There is no standard.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:48 PM   #37
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^that's because a dyno was intended to be a tuning tool, not a "measuring tape."

The standard measuring tape would be the quartermile but that has its own set of variables that need to be taken in account (altitude, ambient temp and humidity, vehicle weight and driver ability, gear ratios and tire size)

This is why having a baseline prior to doing mods to compare the gains is important. At least most shops have an example of a bone stock Subaru to use. Gains and shape of the graph are much more important than the peak number the dyno spits out.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #38
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maybe the guy in the second comparison was on some better race gas to make high 400's at the old place
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:30 PM   #39
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^^^ E85 summer blend will make a bit of a difference then the E70ish winter blend we are getting now. Atleast at the few station locally Ive recently tested.
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Old 10-25-2013, 05:59 PM   #40
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Why didnt you dyno the 2011 in 3rd gear? Correct me if I'm wrong, 04-06 STI 6speeds get dyno'd in 4th, 07+ in 3rd gear? I know its not the end of the world, but numbers would differ.
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Old 10-25-2013, 08:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkumaMotorsports View Post
The filter will have little to zero effect. Especially in this context.
I know on other dynos the filter def makes a difference!!! Not huge but far from zero and should be noted...ive seen 2-8% difference with a change in smoothing.


Why do you say "especially in this context"??

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilles View Post
Why didnt you dyno the 2011 in 3rd gear? Correct me if I'm wrong, 04-06 STI 6speeds get dyno'd in 4th, 07+ in 3rd gear? I know its not the end of the world, but numbers would differ.
its a wrx so 5-speed
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:49 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
I know on other dynos the filter def makes a difference!!! Not huge but far from zero and should be noted...ive seen 2-8% difference with a change in smoothing.
What other dynos are you referring to? Please don't say road dynos.
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #43
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john- I may stop over one day to do a few pulls with our RS. Makes 510 on a local dynojet. Curious as to what it puts down on yours

Ryan
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:45 AM   #44
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460-470
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #45
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Solution: Run the car on the dyno then go straight to the strip and do a 50-100 or 60-130 pull for comparison. The rest of this bantering back and forth is useless.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post



its a wrx so 5-speed
yes, but no.

STi 6-speed swap in that car.

as mentioned, people really need to move beyond #'s. if all you care about is numbers then i think you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.

as john, dave, and all the others who understand have mentioned a dyno is a tool. since i can remember akuma always had a lower reading dyno. at the end of the day wahts important is what Rsutton mentined above, 50-100 and 1/4 times.

its understandable that posting a big spec sheet and low numbers has people questioning things and thus bashing but honestly, for the owners they know how the car feels and drives. numbers are irrelevant IMO because it seems like its just becoming a dick measuring contest at meets and etc. just look at EVO/sti day..plenty of high HP cars running sub-par times.

from what i remember on track john's old STi and Evo were plenty fast...

i think to settle all of this, take a car that reads "low" and post some slips, that will back up everything.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:04 PM   #47
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You're a tool. LOL

Seriously though...trap times. Get them.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:16 PM   #48
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FYI, my car was recently dynoed at (shop Y)..since I know of the 2011 wrx that was on the dyno there. And my 07 sti made just under 30 LESS hp and 20ft lbs LESS tq
Just to make a point that akuma's dyno reads WAY low, here is a 50-100 I just posted in another thread.This was a 3rd gear pull with almost a full tank of e85.
I think a software update should bring there average #s up to newer mustang #s
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:50 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilt2run View Post
FYI, my car was recently dynoed at (shop Y)..since I know of the 2011 wrx that was on the dyno there. And my 07 sti made just under 30 LESS hp and 20ft lbs LESS tq
Just to make a point that akuma's dyno reads WAY low, here is a 50-100 I just posted in another thread.This was a 3rd gear pull with almost a full tank of e85.07 sti 50.-100 3.6 seconds - YouTube
I think a software update should bring there average #s up to newer mustang #s
Your delta's are much less than they are claiming in this thread. Like I said before...time slips, pull runs or HTFU. I personally do not know why someone would post a thread like this. Proof is in the pudding and dyno numbers aren't it...especially on dyno's that have been known to be easy to manipulate.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:10 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by besthaticouldo View Post
You're a tool. LOL
words hurt you know.
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