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Old 10-20-2013, 12:13 PM   #1
old school
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Default Hatch Patrol's XMas Tree Run 2013. 12/07

Saturday, December 7, Greenwater, Forest Road 70. We'll meet at Mikky D's in Enumclaw at 9:00 a.m. and leave at 9:30 in a group or in groups up Highway 410 to go play in the snow.

You have to have snow tires on your car to join us. It's a free country, but if you show up with street tires, you'll get stuck and just piss off the folks behind you that want to keep heading up the trail.

This is a good family fun time. Leave your asshattery and bad attitude at home. Kids and friendly dogs welcome. This is our 12th? annual run.


There is a main parking lot that we set up base camp at. If your car is somewhat low and the snow is deep higher up, there will be folk with room to take you.


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Last edited by old school; 10-20-2013 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 10-20-2013, 03:01 PM   #2
Subie_Noob_Brian
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Whats needed to leave with a tree? Permit? I would get a tiny baby one if anything for myself.
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:45 PM   #3
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Permit required and the Forestry Office is just past McD's on the right.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboneX View Post
Permit required and the Forestry Office is just past McD's on the right.
Alright then.

FYI I just looked at dec 7th is a Saturday. Which is wrong the date or the day?
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_Noob_Brian View Post
Alright then.

FYI I just looked at dec 7th is a Saturday. Which is wrong the date or the day?

Doh. Fixed. Not enough coffee as I posted. lol Saturday.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #6
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Sounds awesome!
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:27 PM   #7
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you guys have anyone on continental DWS all seasons make it out too deep? I picked them up with the hopes that they could handle moderate snow.. : P
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:13 PM   #8
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Sweet. I was wondering when a date would be set. Last year was fun and quite a bit of snow up higher. Funny to see looks on the faces of people in large trucks and suvs getting passed up by little Subarus.

I had DWSs on my car for the first two years of ownership, and they were awesome in the snow. Last year at the Xmas Tree Run, I had General Grabbers which did fine. The DWSs out perform the Grabbers in all but the really deep stuff. My friend went up last year with some cheap all season (but summer biased) tires and didn't get stuck until the parking area which wasn't packed down. Ultimately, it'll be The Hatch Patrol's decision, but as long as your car isn't super low, I think you would be fine.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:41 PM   #9
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Sometimes the road up there can be REALLY icy. There's one corner where at least one SUV falls into the ditch every year. One time we pulled out 3 of them. We keep a nice slow pace, with caution you should be able to make it to the base camp anyways.
07 Xmas tree run


08 run, no snow


09 run


2010 run
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:43 PM   #10
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Anyone go up with an FMIC? Car isn't too low.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:00 AM   #11
Subie_Noob_Brian
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Wow the DWS did better than the grabbers?!? I'm disappointed...
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_Noob_Brian View Post
Wow the DWS did better than the grabbers?!? I'm disappointed...
Grabbers are not snow tires. . . All terrain tires are ok at everything, awesome at nothing.

The weather forecast a little closer to the actual date will give us a better idea of how much snow will be up there this year.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old school View Post
Grabbers are not snow tires. . . All terrain tires are ok at everything, awesome at nothing. The weather forecast a little closer to the actual date will give us a better idea of how much snow will be up there this year.
Well my grabbers are snowflake rated so they must be pretty good. Are DWS snowflake rated?
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_Noob_Brian View Post
Well my grabbers are snowflake rated so they must be pretty good. Are DWS snowflake rated?








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Old 10-24-2013, 02:01 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by TrickNipple View Post








Tirerack.com

"Qualified winter / snow tires have the mountain/snowflake marking on their sidewall. In short, it indicates a higher level of winter capabilities, including traction in snow and on ice compared to an all-season tire. The spirit of the marking is intended for dedicated winter solutions, however there are a few models out there that meet or exceed the threshold and sport the severe snow mountain/snowflake symbol.

Listed below are the non-dedicated winter / snow tire options that meet the severe snow service requirements with the mountain/snowflake symbol. Currently, the only options are for SUVs and light trucks. The following tires can be great solutions if you want a higher level of winter element traction without swapping tires back and forth twice a year. Certain sizes of the BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO and General Grabber AT 2 do not have the mountain/snowflake symbol and those sizes can be found under the "Specs" tab.

On/Off Road All-Terrain

BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO (Specs)
General Grabber AT 2 (Specs)
Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor
Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61
On/Off Road Commercial Traction

Goodyear Wrangler DuraTrac
- See more at: http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/hunter....Z4wgMYi9.dpuf"



So why are you laughing? Do you not understand what the qualification is?
My General Grabbers have met the same standards as dedicated winter tires. They may not be as good in every condition but they are still qualified with the same rating as winter tires.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:09 PM   #16
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Qualified doesnt mean ****.
When they are M&S rated the DOT says they are ok.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_Noob_Brian View Post
Tirerack.com

"Qualified winter / snow tires have the mountain/snowflake marking on their sidewall. In short, it indicates a higher level of winter capabilities, including traction in snow and on ice compared to an all-season tire. The spirit of the marking is intended for dedicated winter solutions, however there are a few models out there that meet or exceed the threshold and sport the severe snow mountain/snowflake symbol..
I tend to trust this feedback rating system that tire rack.com has.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....l=Grabber+AT+2

Looks like folks liked them in the snow.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:21 PM   #18
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Ha, guess I should have said "in my opinion" when I made the statement about the DWSs being better than the Grabbers in snow. The DWSs outperformed nearly everything that wasn't a dedicated snow tire in Tire Rack's tests so they are pretty good to begin with.

The Grabbers were fine last year and I purposely sought out snow that I should not have been driving in. I drove over the pass in really heavy (blizzard?) snow conditions and kept going the entire way when most other cars had pulled over to either wait it out or put on chains. The DWSs, to me, felt more stable and confidence inspiring on the compact/icy stuff and about the same as the Grabbers in the soft stuff.
I run the Grabbers in a 215/65-16,which are "Not Rated for Severe Snow".

Anyhooo... Yay for the XMAS Tree run. Come on snow.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:32 PM   #19
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Or just a tire guy like me haha...I run dws and have not had a problem. All terrain you sacrifice fuel economy and ride and usually wear quicker. Now the sever service emblem is an emblem on all winter tires and some all season tires that meet dot specs. As far as how soft the rubber is when its under 45 degrees...alot of all season tires get hard and cause slipping. Dws do not have the emblem but are soft rubber. The m+s rating on alot tires dont mean ****...any tire will ho on snow and mud...the cheap Chinese tires have them and suck in winter weather. ...hope this helps.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_Noob_Brian View Post
Well my grabbers are snowflake rated so they must be pretty good. Are DWS snowflake rated?
Our Grabbers on the Forester have done just fine in deep snow, ice OTOH.......




Anyway, I'm out this year as the wife will be very, very pregnant by then. Best not to chance it.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:36 PM   #21
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you can have the best tires in the world hell you could even have studded tires, but they won't do a bit of good if you can't drive in snow. If you've only driven in snow a few times and you drive a turbo car, all your hp means jack ****, it's all about throttle control. Patience is a bigger part of driving trails then how fast your 0-60 times are, if you drive respectable which I know is asking a ton for some people, you should not get stuck on the trail, showing off will get you stuck.
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:20 PM   #22
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Wish I could participate, but I don't have snow tires
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Our Grabbers on the Forester have done just fine in deep snow, ice OTOH.......




Anyway, I'm out this year as the wife will be very, very pregnant by then. Best not to chance it.
I do deliveries! (Former EMT)

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Old 11-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EodSTI View Post
you can have the best tires in the world hell you could even have studded tires, but they won't do a bit of good if you can't drive in snow. If you've only driven in snow a few times and you drive a turbo car, all your hp means jack ****, it's all about throttle control. Patience is a bigger part of driving trails then how fast your 0-60 times are, if you drive respectable which I know is asking a ton for some people, you should not get stuck on the trail, showing off will get you stuck.
Truth. Plain and simple.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:04 PM   #25
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We put folks in front of the line that will keep the pace slow and gentle. There's bound to be people getting stuck, the snow gets pretty deep up top. But we also bring full size 4Xs to act as recovery vehicles.

Two years ago, a Forester XT had a hell of a time just getting into the staging area on his street tires. But he'd been warned, so we go a good laugh out of he and his wife's struggles.
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