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Old 11-04-2013, 10:27 AM   #1
Rokk78
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Default Hawk HPS pads Stoptech slotter rotors ?

My question is in the performance category. I had stock rotors and pads that were in dire need of replacement. So I ordered a stop tech rotors and HPS pad combo I also added stainless steel lines.

On to the performance. I noticed almost immediately that the bite of the brakes was TERRIBLE compared to my stock set up. I figured maybe the pads just needed time to bed into the rotors, so I followed some of the bed in procedures which didn't seem to help at all.. Fast forward a few weeks, I literally cannot get the brakes to lock up. I can stand on the pedal and pull on the steering wheel and bite of the brakes is so bad its crazy. I cannot get the abs to engage. I didn't even realize how bad it was, I just sort of assumed it was ok. Until I drove my wives SUV. Her brakes are literally a 100 times better.. So question is. Are these pads literally that terrible, could something be on the rotors like an oil or something?( i did try to clean the rotors with brake fluid.) The pedal feels firm enough, but maybe some air in the line is stopping the effectiveness of the braking?

I do understand that the HPS pad is not a performance pad and that there are many much better pads available. However, I at least expected the HPS with slotted rotors and stainless lines to be equal or slightly better than stock.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:44 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokk78 View Post
Are these pads literally that terrible, could something be on the rotors like an oil or something?( i did try to clean the rotors with brake fluid.)
You tried to clean the rotors with brake fluid, or with brake cleaner? If it was brake fluid, there's your problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokk78 View Post
I do understand that the HPS pad is not a performance pad and that there are many much better pads available. However, I at least expected the HPS with slotted rotors and stainless lines to be equal or slightly better than stock.
HPS pads aren't great, but you should be able to lock up the brakes, so something isn't right.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:50 AM   #3
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Sorry I meant brake cleaner. Thanks for catching that dyslexic moment..haha..

Yeah I feel like something isn't right, but I mean its just pads rotors I replaced. Maybe its brake fluid has cooked and bubbled? If thats the case the pads and braking should still be good though just the peddle would be much softer right.

Last edited by Rokk78; 11-04-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:25 PM   #4
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Something's wrong. HPS pads are not that bad.

Also, fill out your profile. We have no clue what car you own.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:48 PM   #5
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yeah these are terrible. Its almost as if I push the brake pedal and I can feel the pads rubbing on the rotors but the harder I push its almost as if the slicker the bit becomes. I would say maybe I did something to screw up the pads or the rotors when I installed them. But I took them directly out of the packaging and onto the car. The only oil substance was my finger grease and brake dust. Which I cleaned away with brake parts cleaner. From the first time I touched the peddle backing out of the driveway I thought wow these don't bite at all. Think I will try putting stock pads back on the front just to test.
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:52 PM   #6
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since you did the lines, you did bleed the brakes in the proper order, yes?
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Old 11-04-2013, 01:48 PM   #7
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When and how did you clean the rotors? You said you "tried to clean" the rotors - was that prior to install, or after you had them on the car and weren't happy with the performance?
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:21 PM   #8
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I actually had a local shop bleed the lines. I don't know what it is but I just do not like messing with hydraulic systems(I can never get the air out). I will pull a motor down to the crank and back again but I just don't like bleeding brakes.. Not sure the method they used, however.. After putting the pads and rotors on and driving for two days before taking to bleed the brakes. The braking was terrible. I just thought the pads had not seated yet/new fluid would make it better.

As for the cleaning. I installed the rotors, sprayed brake cleaner on the rotor and wiped away with the blue shop towels on the roll like paper towels. Then installed the calipers and pads. I used nothing on the pad surface itself. Was very careful not to touch the rotors after cleaning.

Also I should note that I went on a road trip this past weekend and put about 1,000 miles on these pads and rotors. The brake dust build up was all red powder, I have normally only noticed black before so that was new to me. I would have thought with 1000 miles that even something was on the rotors or pads it would have burned off by now. Maybe not.

Last edited by Rokk78; 11-04-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:15 PM   #9
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Hawk HPS do create a wonderfully ugly red dust. I believe it will also eat away the finish of your wheels when combined with water and left to sit over time.

In my experience Hawk HPS pads are simply garbage. I installed a set as an "upgrade". A couple days later I bought some Carbotech Bobcat* pads and chucked the HPS in a garbage can. Supposedly the same performance range for both brands/models of pads, but the Carbotech pads were simply better. Fast forward a few years and I have to say that the Stoptech Street Performance pads are cheaper and better still than the Carbotech Bobcats*.


*Carbotech renamed the Bobcat to some useless string of numbers I can't recall at the moment.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:32 PM   #10
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I had stoptech pads on my VW GLI and they were awesome on that car. Was really trying to avoid shelling out the cash for new pads just to see if that is the issue. I will try to install the stock pads and see if they are better just as a test before I order some new pads.

I just went outside and pumped up the brakes and applied pressure to the pedal to see if maybe the master cylinder was leaking. Pedal did not budge. This is with car not running. Anyway to test the booster?

I believe, from what you have all said here. Either I must still have air in the system or these pads are just substandard to what I am used to.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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I've found the HPS are crap as well. Drove my friends car with Stoptech street performance, and it's what I'll be moving to when I make the, (soon,) brake upgrade.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:46 PM   #12
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I think that's the first time I've ever see someone who's run both actually say something about the two. I've seen a ton of mixed reviews/impressions of the HPS. Some love it and tout high bite. Some hate them and say they suck for bite. Each measures against their own scale of experience.

Bobcat = 1521, yeah don't know why. People like words better but whatever.

I'm a huge fan of their XP8 pad. I've never used the Bobcat pad though, just the AX6. The XP8 is better than the AX6 in every way, MUCH more linear and better initial bite even dead cold. I and my brother have used them daily on our Foresters for several years. Daily, auto-x, rally-x, light track day, hot of summer to the dead of winter, very good all-use pad with very linear properties and low variation vs temp swing. I haven't had the urge to buy another pad since because they don't really do anything wrong. Worst offense? They squeal quite loudly under very light braking (more specifically on Brembo setup) but high temp grease or anti-seize on the backing plate and slides helps. They're no worse than the AX6 for noise. I would have liked some Bobcat pad experience just to get an idea of the range of products, but alas there was never the opportunity.

I've only heard great things about the Stoptech pads.
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:24 PM   #13
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Where are you getting a hold of the Carbotect pads?
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:42 PM   #14
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Axxis Ult's get my vote
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:11 PM   #15
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Carbotech from their own website.

Axxis Ultimates certainly get a lot of praise too.

It would be useful to find as many comparison threads as you can and see what info you can find about viable candidates.

Mind you, your HPS pads should work fine, so I still think something's wrong.
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:13 AM   #16
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Stoptech street pads on my 09 wrx and I can easily lock my brakes up. I like these pads alot. Been driving on my current set for one and a half years now.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:33 AM   #17
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Just tried this.
Sitting in the car with it running. Push the pedal. The more I push the closer to the floor it gets. Its about 1-2inchs of touching the floor before it finally stops. I cannot see a fluid leak anywhere.

Going to take it back to the shop that bleed the brakes for me. hopefully there is just air in the system and it will easily be fixed.. Do they make a master cylinder rebuild kit?

Last edited by Rokk78; 11-05-2013 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:51 AM   #18
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I put HPS pads, Powerslot rotors and Stainless lines on at the same time last year.
They have worked great for a spirited street setup. [shrug]

You definitely have something wrong going on.

I did a total fluid replacement when I did my lines, so I knew I had flushed out all the air. You could still have a lot of air in the system with changing the lines and not being 'vigorous' with bleeding the system.
It's a possibility at least.

The brand/model of your pads is not the issue.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:32 PM   #19
Rokk78
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Yeah all I wanted these for was a spirited street set up. I figured if I ever went to the track I could get track pads for that and just use these rotors. Not ideal but for the budget minded it would work.

Shop claims they bleed the lines 3 times to get the air out. But yeah maybe that wasn't enough.

Last edited by Rokk78; 11-05-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:59 PM   #20
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It could be something else. Was mostly making the point that the HPS pads aren't the problem just because they are HPS pads.
The pads could be the problem because of a manufacturing defect, or they got grease or something on them, could be other things (like air in the lines) beats me really.

I also think the earlier person talking about the red dust and eating away at your wheels if it gets wet, was mistaking the HPS pads you have for the HP+ pads. Which are more meant for track duty and have the potentially corrosive dust problem. I don't know about the color of dust on them, but on my HPS pads the dust is the same dark greyish color as any other 'light duty' pad.
However, reading back up you say yours are making red dust also... Perhaps you mistakenly got HP+ pads? Now I'm all curious...
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:48 AM   #21
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IF I did get HP+ pads then these truly do suck. I was doing some very spirited driving as as they got hot they got worse and worse with more and more fade. I have brake cooling ducts directly onto the rotors as well as high temp brake fluid. I really think either the master cylinder seals are leaking internally, there is air in the lines or these pads are just junk.. Dropped car off for another brake bleed this morning. Guess we shall see later.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:29 PM   #22
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Well got the car back. Does the same thing.. The bite actually isn't so bad at the moment but the brakes are cold and I haven't done any heavy braking. However, car running pressure on the pedal and slowly goes to about 1-2 inches from the firewall.. Car off and it builds pressure and does not slowly go to the floor.. ideas?
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:01 PM   #23
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I'm no expert, though it makes it sound more like an issue with the fluid system. When the vehicle is off you loose your brake booster power, hence why it's harder to push when off, especially after a couple pumps on the pedal.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:27 AM   #24
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Replaced the master cylinder. That seems to have solved the soft pedal to the floor issue. Made the pads seem to bite a little better. However, these are still far below what the stock pads performance levels were at. Guess I had two issues.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:07 AM   #25
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The bleeding sequence is NOT RR, LR, RF, LF. Subaru is different.
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