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Old 02-12-2001, 07:51 PM   #1
Red-Imp
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Member#: 1742
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA
Vehicle:
2000 Imp 2.5 RS, SRP
& a fast red car ;)

Angry Boned by PAX

Oh my God did we get boned by the PAX adjustements. Check out these modifiers.
<table border><th align=center colspan=9>2001 SCCA PAX Time Conversion Table</th>
<tr align=left><td>SS-.830<td>AS-.817<td>BS-.813<td>CS-.804<td>DS-.796<td>ES-.786<td>FS-.807<td>GS-.789<td>HS-.781</tr>
<tr align=left><td>ASP-.852<td>BSP-.847<td>CSP-.844<td>DSP-.819<td>ESP-.822<td>FSP-.815</tr>
<tr align=left><td>AP-.874<td>BP-.872<td>CP-.856<td>DP-.853<td>EP-.873<td>FP-.865</tr>
<tr align=left><td>AM-1.000<td>BM-.955<td>CM-.924<td>DM-.900<td>EM-.907<td>FM-.904</tr>
<tr align=left><td>STS-.782<td>STR-.809<td>SM-.842</tr>
</table>
If I'd run in GS with the same time I'd be in 2nd place in NV2 (in front of a Porche 944), instead I'm in 5th. If I'd run in STS with Eric, I'd be 2nd and he'd be third. Instead, he's 2nd.

Oh, and boy are we all in the wrong group. There's 37 people in NV2. Holy cow!

Check out the results: Arizona Region SCCA Solo2 Race Results

-Red

[Edit: Had a little extra whitespace to get rid of.]

[This message has been edited by Red-Impreza (edited February 12, 2001).]
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Old 02-12-2001, 08:18 PM   #2
slidewaysmike
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Bud, you also might not have run as fast without your swaybar. So don't forget that.
Here is a little something that might cheer you up, check out your ranking against all DSP entries: pos Class Category Name Car Fast Time FT% PAX Time PT%
1 DSP STL Nancy Maloney 01 BMW 330i 40.741 846 33.367 881
2 DSP NV2 Bud Caldwell 00 Impreza 40.796 845 33.412 879
3 DSP NV2 Mike Anderson 01 Impreza 41.883 823 34.302 857
4 DSP NV2 Kevin O'Neill 96 Integra 42.118 819 34.495 852
5 DSP NV2 Aaron Valencia 74 Celica 45.257 762 37.065 793
6 DSP NV2 Rashied Arekat 00 Eclipse 45.524 758 37.284 788
7 DSP NV2 Kyle Wilcox 76 Alfetta GT 45.600 756 37.346 787

Not too shabby my friend, just shake off the NV2 moniker and your in the points pretty easy.

PS- I was reviewing the NV2 results, and I really have a hard time with them. Most of those cars that finished ahead of you were not exactly "Stock" if you know what I mean. Most of those guys were running much larger wheels than stock, and lowered suspensions also.
What can you do now? Nothing, but if we are going to be competetive, we probably need to police these things a little. It stinks having to rat someone, but we know the organizers aren't going to do it.

Mike

Edit: tried to make more presentable


[This message has been edited by slidewaysmike (edited February 12, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by slidewaysmike (edited February 12, 2001).]
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Old 02-12-2001, 08:25 PM   #3
Red-Imp
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Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA
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2000 Imp 2.5 RS, SRP
& a fast red car ;)

Cool

The sway bar really changes the way the car is balanced, but I'm not convinced it makes that big a difference in the times. Tires are the big thing.

Maybe I'll switch to STS and compete with Eric. (Then maybe Eric will get some tires and murder me. I'm pretty sure he out drove me this weekend, but he was stuck on those RE92's. )

-Red
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Old 02-12-2001, 09:12 PM   #4
Danny5
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Cool

OMG - I can't believe you are running in NV2 Bud!!!

I was told that you are only allowed to race Novice class if you have less than 4 autoxs under your belt when the season begins.

You are supposed to be in DSP Street Tire - LOL

Ok... Now you know the secret of the Impreza RS. Fastest DSP car of the day (CSP in my time) and always middle of the pack when pax was applied.

Still, its fun to put the car through the wringers every now and then

-Dan
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Old 02-12-2001, 10:32 PM   #5
XT6Wagon
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Nice, I love how a stock NSX can run almost the exact same time and get a better PAX, than my SHO with its swaybar. ER.... Right

Oh and I am pissed that STS has a 3.1L displacement limit. FKN bastards, just becuase my family car has 3.2L....

Anyhoo I am taking donations for the "get the SHO heads w/o bent valves" Fund.

[This message has been edited by XT6Wagon (edited February 12, 2001).]
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Old 02-12-2001, 11:22 PM   #6
Eric SS
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swap and N20. gone. : (

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Bud: Don't forget that STS isn't going to use a PAX adjustment this season in the Phoenix SCCA races. I talked to the person that puts on the races (The guy that races the M3 and he said the PAX is so screwed up for STS that STS is going to be a completly different class this season and it's not going ot compete against other classes.

That means that THE ONLY other people you are competing against are other people running in STS. AND, you can't run Novice and STS so it's either one or the other. I think you should just go STS. It'd be a lot of fun!

Eric
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Old 02-13-2001, 06:22 AM   #7
Red-Imp
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2000 Imp 2.5 RS, SRP
& a fast red car ;)

Question

I was told you should run NV your first two seasons unless you trophy
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Old 02-13-2001, 10:52 AM   #8
#522
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I'm totally confused with PAX, is it like a handicap in bowling or something? Does the autocrossing.com site explain it? We're not using that in the rallycrosses are we? Is this a whole reply of questions or what?

ron?
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Old 02-13-2001, 03:10 PM   #9
XT6Wagon
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They use the Rally classification Right??

I love the open class. From whay I understand I could covert my SHO to mid engine RWD and not move anywhere in the class structure.

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Old 02-13-2001, 03:20 PM   #10
#522
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Thanks for clearing that up Red. I get it, but like you I think how they determine the numbers is a little grey. I used to think that there were just classes of cars and if you were a novice with a tricked out car but couldn't drive, too bad, you run with the big dogs. I guess it makes for better competition.
I'm glad rally-x is simple.

ron
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Old 02-13-2001, 04:33 PM   #11
kastle
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I just love that topic Red....
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Old 02-13-2001, 07:14 PM   #12
Red-Imp
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& a fast red car ;)

Cool

Quote:
I just love that topic
I'm glad somebody enjoyed it.


Quote:
They use the Rally classification Right??
I believe that's right, but I'm not as familiar with the rally clasifications. If you are, please share.

Oh, and if you convert your show to a mid-engine RWD car I want to see pictures!

-Red
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Old 02-14-2001, 12:15 AM   #13
Red-Imp
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& a fast red car ;)

Lightbulb

OK, somebody on the autocrossing.com message board cleared this up a little. Check out this thread: SCCA Classing... .

Here's my understanding of PAX scores and the trophy groups. PAX (which I assume means something like Performance Adjustment multiplier) is a scale-factor, multiplied by your elapsed time for the course giving your PAX time. The PAX times are then normalized* to a 1000 point scale. The guy with the fastest time gets 1000 points and anybody who DNFs all three runs gets 0 points. The rest of us get somewhere in between. Your best three PAX scores for the 4 events of the season add up to figure out final position for the season. High score wins (3000 being the max possible).

It's a way of doing two things. One, leveling the playing field so that people with Geo Metros can race people with Porches. (Supposedly the PAX multiplier does that.) Two, carrying scores from one event to the next since raw time is only relative to a given course on a given day. (Normalizing the times to a 1000 point-per-event scale does that.)

Two questions remain. How do they normalize the adjusted times into a 1000-point scale and how do they define the class and multiplier for a given car with a given set of modifications. The answer to the first question, I would assume, requires a little statistics. (Anybody remember the area under a normal curve?) So, I'm going to just assume that somebody in the SCCA knows a little statistics and that they've done that in a reasonable way. The answer to the second question is what I take exception to.

The trophy groups (NV1, NV2, ST1...) were just a way of grouping similar types of drivers & setups (street tire vs. race tire, etc.) into groups of reasonable size to award trophies. This way, the novices can win trophies too.

-Red-nerd-Impreza

PS: No, they don't use the same car clasifications in rallycross. They usually classify cars by drive-line type (FWD, RWD, AWD).
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Old 02-14-2001, 03:27 PM   #14
XT6Wagon
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Well send me $5000 and I'll even give you a ride or two.

The Open class is anything goes as long as a couple of reglations are met, along with the safety requirements. For instance I could replace the entire front clip on my wagon with a CF one that "looks" stock. The SHO could have a 3L TT SHO motor installed behind the rear seat, and ANY suspention I want under it.

Or how about a old 70's suabru with a highly modified WRX driveline, alot of work, but MUCH lighter than the Impreza with such things.

The others allows less and less modification, until you get to production which is a bog stock car with skid plates, and a rollcage.

I'll try and figure out where you fit if you post mods. Personaly both my cars only fit in open.
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