UTEC help: Think I made a little boo-boo in my map :).

davidm_sh · 10-10-2002, 01:22 PM

Ok here is the deal I am trying to get the LTFT and STFT to add to 0 when tuning the 0% column in the UTEC right. So I have been watching those values and made quite a few changes last night to my map.

First off here are the changes I made to the fueling map. In column 0 I took rpm ranges from 0-1250rpm to about -2.2% ( I have an AEM intake and was told by TXS that this sounds about right). THen I put all the other values around -7.2%. Now with those values I went out driving last night and noticed some things. It almost seems that the ECu has two different value sets for the STFT and the LTFT. Those two different values being when you are in idle and when you are cruising? Either that or the LTFT really adjust QUICKLY between those two scenerios.

So anyway the added values of STFT and LTFT were usually in the +0-5% range with short term usually in the -0-3% range at idle and then when crusining I would get sums closer to 0% to just a little positive. I was thinking great and the car is running good.

NOw onto the timing map changes [blush]. I set 0% column to 45 from 1500rpm up. NOw I "think" this is where I ran into my problem this morning. When I started the car and it was COLD idling the rpms were around 1500rpm (like usual) before you start moving. Then I backed out of the garage and the rpms wouldn't go below 2000rpms and in between those two times I got a P1507 CEL. Which I think is "P1507 Idle control system malfunction (fail-safe)".

I think my boo-boo was setting the timing to 45 from 1500rpm and up. SO I changed 1500-2000rpm range back to ECU control and then from 2250rpm and up I put in 45 degrees of timing. I also bumped the % fueling in the idle range from -2.2% to -4% and the rest of the 0 column from -7.2% to -7% just to close the "jump" between the two values in the crossover rpm range of 1500rpm.

So what do you all think? Besides I did a "not so smart" thing

?

Thanks

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paul99se · 10-10-2002, 01:51 PM

+45 degrees?

Low-rpm timing is in the +30-35 range on the maps that I've seen from TXS.

Do you have some reason to believe that your timing should be advanced that much at ~2000rpm? ECU timing before boost builds is probably just fine.

-Paul

RiftsWRX · 10-10-2002, 02:04 PM

Not to really sound cocky or arrogant... but you do understand what you did right?

You understand that you WILL produce boost in closed loop... and 45 degrees of advance at 7 or 8 psi is a detonation inducing nightmare!

The fact that you could produce that in 3rd or fourth at 3000 RPM further compounds detonation that even the knock correction system couldn't dial back enough on...

The default UTEC retard is up to 16 degrees... that means that you will STILL run 29 degrees of advance on boost, under SUPER engine load down low..

Your knock correction won't stop you from holeing a piston!

Bud... set your fuel... but leave closed loop timing alone. (0%)

If you MUST, then set your TPS cross over to a lower % then setup your timing via your map ranges... that way you can run atmospheric at 45 degrees, 2 PSI at 40 degrees, etc.... and not blow up your car!

range zero is MAP independent... so the car won't care if your 0 PSI or 400 PSI.

Plus if you change your 250-1250 columns with static timing the car doesn't like it and will oscillate rpm till it fail safes, or codes.. which is what you did.

Tread lightly......
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

davidm_sh · 10-10-2002, 02:05 PM

The only response to that is I am spoiled

. I had my car tuned by Cobb and he told me he added timing down-low/off boost to aid in power/drivability in that area. I didn't ask exacally how much timing he was adding but by the butt-dyno it was a nice noticable improvement.

Then I had the Link and ran about 43 degrees in vacuum/closed-loop area and it was about the same as the unichip was in terms of drivability.

I tried running the UTEC with ECU controlling the timing in the 0% column/closed-loop and it was decent but sluggish I would find myself regularly boosting about 5-7psi just to get up a hill that I used to beable to get up (at the same pace) at about 0psi with the unichip and Link = less power in vacuum range from less timing. I did notice that the stock ECU runs about 40 degress of timing MOST of the time in vacuum ranges with the UTEC dashboard interface. So I figured an extra 5 degrees shouldn't do any harm? I suppose I could try 30 at say 2000 rpm then 35 at 3000 rpm and then 45 after that?

davidm_sh · 10-10-2002, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RiftsWRX

Not to really sound cocky or arrogant... but you do understand what you did right?

You understand that you WILL produce boost in closed loop... and 45 degrees of advance at 7 or 8 psi is a detonation inducing nightmare!

The fact that you could produce that in 3rd or fourth at 3000 RPM further compounds detonation that even the knock correction system couldn't dial back enough on...

The default UTEC retard is up to 16 degrees... that means that you will STILL run 29 degrees of advance on boost, under SUPER engine load down low..

Your knock correction won't stop you from holeing a piston!

Bud... set your fuel... but leave closed loop timing alone. (0%)

If you MUST, then set your TPS cross over to a lower % then setup your timing via your map ranges... that way you can run atmospheric at 45 degrees, 2 PSI at 40 degrees, etc.... and not blow up your car!

range zero is MAP independent... so the car won't care if your 0 PSI or 400 PSI.

Plus if you change your 250-1250 columns with static timing the car doesn't like it and will oscillate rpm till it fail safes, or codes.. which is what you did.

Tread lightly......
Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

Yah I know... I guess I will have to wait for a future rev of the software that allows greater resolution into tuning the 0% column. I did/do realize that yes I will be running that much advance at say 6-7psi when it's still in closed loop which did scare me but I thought I would give it a "brief try". I thought I remember you talking about setting your timing to 45 degrees in the closed loop range? OR was that someone else?

I thought about changing the TPS crossover point but that still doesn't give you very good control over where open-loop starts (what MAP value). I guess I could put the crossover point down around 10% or somthing but... ehh... I guess I will just put the timing back to stock ECU for now.

Thanks for the advice.

RiftsWRX · 10-10-2002, 02:12 PM

what your not understanding is that until you reach your TPS cross over point (60% from stock) you will ONLY use the range 0% column

weather your in vacuum OR boost...

45 degrees in vacuum is OK...

45 degrees at 8 PSI is BAAAAD!

That's why I'm saying, if you REALLY want that control, then cut your TPS threshold to like 40% in parameters->special constants

THEN, assuming your special constants map you from 0 to 18 PSI

You can use MAP ranges 10% for 0 PSI atmospheric

20% for .1 PSI to 2 PSI

30% for 2.1 PSI to 4 PSI

etc.. etc..

that way you can map 10-30 % with more agressive timing to suit your habit of driving... just remembering, that it will take at least 40% TPS to do it... you don't want to set that crossover point to zero because you'll never have a stable LFT that you get from the consistent fuel modification of the 0% column

edit: realized I mis typed stuff

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

RiftsWRX · 10-10-2002, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by davidm_sh

Yah I know... I guess I will have to wait for a future rev of the software that allows greater resolution into tuning the 0% column. I did/do realize that yes I will be running that much advance at say 6-7psi when it's still in closed loop which did scare me but I thought I would give it a "brief try". I thought I remember you talking about setting your timing to 45 degrees in the closed loop range? OR was that someone else?

I thought about changing the TPS crossover point but that still doesn't give you very good control over where open-loop starts (what MAP value). I guess I could put the crossover point down around 10% or somthing but... ehh... I guess I will just put the timing back to stock ECU for now.

Thanks for the advice.

I mean... there is a point where you have TOO touchy a car... if that is what YOU want....

then set your TPS cross over to zero..

copy your fuel from map zero to sites 10-40

then set 0% to ECU for timing

and proceed to use 10% 20% 30% and 40% to "dial in" your timing to how you'd like.

The reason I tell you to leave fuel consistent as it is with your 0% settings is so that your not screwing up your fuel trims... as far as the CAR is concerned, you'll be in "closed loop" until 8PSI, at which point you'll be assuming that your car will cut itself over from closed loop to open loop..

Problem is... your assuming 8PSI will equal your open loop cut over

your assuming that your car will run 14.7:1 at 8PSI and not melt..

But you got your fine control....

So.... I'd copy your zero fuel map to 10-30 (atmosphere to 4PSI)... that way even if your at 4 PSI at 14.7:1 you are not going to produce the EGT's to melt something.

Disclaimer: do that at your own risk... I won't... and won't recommend it.... but if it's how YOU want to drive your car.... it's your $$$

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

davidm_sh · 10-10-2002, 04:09 PM

No I don't really want "that touchy of a car" so I guess I will just let the ECU do it's own thing for now. I have just grown accustom to having a little more timing down low. If there was some sort of way to add a % or delta to the 0% timing column that allowed to add a little more timing on top of whatever the stock ECU wants to do

?

I am just in a little bit of Link ECU withdraw at the moment I guess [heh]. I am NOT used to having the whole closed-loop/open-loop paridigm right now... With the Link it was either open loop or closed loop ALL the time. No biggie though.

Honestly when it comes to medium boost levels and stoich A/F's I have never really ran into the problem of high EGT problems. I mean when my car goes past about 4-5psi (at sea level) the FPR starts adding enough fuel pressure to the rails to give me 11-13:1 A/F even when I was still in closed-loop with my old unichip. Then again I am running a VF22 so everything happens a bit "slower" compared to the stocker TD04L turbo. Up here at 6000ft. (we have about 3-3.5psi less atmospheric pressure) so everything gets shifted up on your boost gauge. So up here when I am in closed loop (say 40% TPS) and I go past 7-8psi then A/F's go rich and I haven't seen ANY sign of det. around there which is nice. I should also add though this was when the stock ECU was controlling the timing in closed loop.

ANyway thanks again.

Dave

10-10-2002, 01:22 PM	#1
davidm_sh Scooby Specialist Member#: 5994 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Fort Collins, CO Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX STi Java Black	UTEC help: Think I made a little boo-boo in my map :). Ok here is the deal I am trying to get the LTFT and STFT to add to 0 when tuning the 0% column in the UTEC right. So I have been watching those values and made quite a few changes last night to my map. First off here are the changes I made to the fueling map. In column 0 I took rpm ranges from 0-1250rpm to about -2.2% ( I have an AEM intake and was told by TXS that this sounds about right). THen I put all the other values around -7.2%. Now with those values I went out driving last night and noticed some things. It almost seems that the ECu has two different value sets for the STFT and the LTFT. Those two different values being when you are in idle and when you are cruising? Either that or the LTFT really adjust QUICKLY between those two scenerios. So anyway the added values of STFT and LTFT were usually in the +0-5% range with short term usually in the -0-3% range at idle and then when crusining I would get sums closer to 0% to just a little positive. I was thinking great and the car is running good. NOw onto the timing map changes [blush]. I set 0% column to 45 from 1500rpm up. NOw I "think" this is where I ran into my problem this morning. When I started the car and it was COLD idling the rpms were around 1500rpm (like usual) before you start moving. Then I backed out of the garage and the rpms wouldn't go below 2000rpms and in between those two times I got a P1507 CEL. Which I think is "P1507 Idle control system malfunction (fail-safe)". I think my boo-boo was setting the timing to 45 from 1500rpm and up. SO I changed 1500-2000rpm range back to ECU control and then from 2250rpm and up I put in 45 degrees of timing. I also bumped the % fueling in the idle range from -2.2% to -4% and the rest of the 0 column from -7.2% to -7% just to close the "jump" between the two values in the crossover rpm range of 1500rpm. So what do you all think? Besides I did a "not so smart" thing ? Thanks * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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10-10-2002, 01:51 PM	#2
paul99se Scooby Newbie Member#: 17822 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Vehicle: 2002 WRX Sedan 5spd	+45 degrees? Low-rpm timing is in the +30-35 range on the maps that I've seen from TXS. Do you have some reason to believe that your timing should be advanced that much at ~2000rpm? ECU timing before boost builds is probably just fine. -Paul

10-10-2002, 02:04 PM	#3
RiftsWRX Scooby Guru Member#: 6124 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA Vehicle: 2000 NFR AP1 S2000 '07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)	Not to really sound cocky or arrogant... but you do understand what you did right? You understand that you WILL produce boost in closed loop... and 45 degrees of advance at 7 or 8 psi is a detonation inducing nightmare! The fact that you could produce that in 3rd or fourth at 3000 RPM further compounds detonation that even the knock correction system couldn't dial back enough on... The default UTEC retard is up to 16 degrees... that means that you will STILL run 29 degrees of advance on boost, under SUPER engine load down low.. Your knock correction won't stop you from holeing a piston! Bud... set your fuel... but leave closed loop timing alone. (0%) If you MUST, then set your TPS cross over to a lower % then setup your timing via your map ranges... that way you can run atmospheric at 45 degrees, 2 PSI at 40 degrees, etc.... and not blow up your car! range zero is MAP independent... so the car won't care if your 0 PSI or 400 PSI. Plus if you change your 250-1250 columns with static timing the car doesn't like it and will oscillate rpm till it fail safes, or codes.. which is what you did. Tread lightly...... Jorge (RiftsWRX) www.ProjectWRX.com

10-10-2002, 02:05 PM	#4
davidm_sh Scooby Specialist Member#: 5994 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Fort Collins, CO Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX STi Java Black	The only response to that is I am spoiled . I had my car tuned by Cobb and he told me he added timing down-low/off boost to aid in power/drivability in that area. I didn't ask exacally how much timing he was adding but by the butt-dyno it was a nice noticable improvement. Then I had the Link and ran about 43 degrees in vacuum/closed-loop area and it was about the same as the unichip was in terms of drivability. I tried running the UTEC with ECU controlling the timing in the 0% column/closed-loop and it was decent but sluggish I would find myself regularly boosting about 5-7psi just to get up a hill that I used to beable to get up (at the same pace) at about 0psi with the unichip and Link = less power in vacuum range from less timing. I did notice that the stock ECU runs about 40 degress of timing MOST of the time in vacuum ranges with the UTEC dashboard interface. So I figured an extra 5 degrees shouldn't do any harm? I suppose I could try 30 at say 2000 rpm then 35 at 3000 rpm and then 45 after that?

10-10-2002, 02:12 PM	#6
RiftsWRX Scooby Guru Member#: 6124 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA Vehicle: 2000 NFR AP1 S2000 '07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)	what your not understanding is that until you reach your TPS cross over point (60% from stock) you will ONLY use the range 0% column weather your in vacuum OR boost... 45 degrees in vacuum is OK... 45 degrees at 8 PSI is BAAAAD! That's why I'm saying, if you REALLY want that control, then cut your TPS threshold to like 40% in parameters->special constants THEN, assuming your special constants map you from 0 to 18 PSI You can use MAP ranges 10% for 0 PSI atmospheric 20% for .1 PSI to 2 PSI 30% for 2.1 PSI to 4 PSI etc.. etc.. that way you can map 10-30 % with more agressive timing to suit your habit of driving... just remembering, that it will take at least 40% TPS to do it... you don't want to set that crossover point to zero because you'll never have a stable LFT that you get from the consistent fuel modification of the 0% column edit: realized I mis typed stuff Jorge (RiftsWRX) www.ProjectWRX.com

10-10-2002, 04:09 PM	#8
davidm_sh Scooby Specialist Member#: 5994 Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Fort Collins, CO Vehicle: 2004 Impreza WRX STi Java Black	No I don't really want "that touchy of a car" so I guess I will just let the ECU do it's own thing for now. I have just grown accustom to having a little more timing down low. If there was some sort of way to add a % or delta to the 0% timing column that allowed to add a little more timing on top of whatever the stock ECU wants to do ? I am just in a little bit of Link ECU withdraw at the moment I guess [heh]. I am NOT used to having the whole closed-loop/open-loop paridigm right now... With the Link it was either open loop or closed loop ALL the time. No biggie though. Honestly when it comes to medium boost levels and stoich A/F's I have never really ran into the problem of high EGT problems. I mean when my car goes past about 4-5psi (at sea level) the FPR starts adding enough fuel pressure to the rails to give me 11-13:1 A/F even when I was still in closed-loop with my old unichip. Then again I am running a VF22 so everything happens a bit "slower" compared to the stocker TD04L turbo. Up here at 6000ft. (we have about 3-3.5psi less atmospheric pressure) so everything gets shifted up on your boost gauge. So up here when I am in closed loop (say 40% TPS) and I go past 7-8psi then A/F's go rich and I haven't seen ANY sign of det. around there which is nice. I should also add though this was when the stock ECU was controlling the timing in closed loop. ANyway thanks again. Dave