Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 1, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2013, 01:19 PM   #1
DCCDPro
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 227549
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Post Why DCCD maps are a thing of the past.

In the last couple of months we have received e-mails asking us
how it is that our Universal DCCD Controller does not have maps
and how the system could then operate.
Letís first look at how a map based system works and then I will
explain how our system is so different.
Maps are basically look up tables or charts stored in a memory.
A map dccd controller fetches a number in this chart or table
every time one of the parameters change. The result of a certain
input will always be one number or outcome. The table is static
so it would not recognize how you reached that point of operation
and, if the conditions of the road change, it will not change the
outcome unless you change the entire map.
An adaptive algorithm based system, on the other hand, does not
have any maps. Rather, it looks at each case based on the inputs
and also how it has arrived at that point and directly calculates
the proper outcome fast enough to reach the optimum performance
for every situation no matter the road conditions.
This technology allows the system to intelligently search for the
best result instead of just arriving at the same outcome over and
over again regardless of how off it might be.
We always highlight the following example of why map-based systems
are not efficient and practical. Imagine you are driving on a one
mile stretch of road at 60 miles per hour and the road conditions
change from dry to wet (mud,gravel ,..) and back and meanwhile
you also hit a corner.
Do you think that, even if you assessed the road condition
accurately, you will have time to switch the maps in time while
you are driving through the curve? How much time has it taken you
to reach the system and push the buttons?
In comparison, the algorithms in DCCDPro Universal Controller have
found the optimum point of operation by examining the operational
solutions hundreds of times per second and applying them to your
DCCD transmission.
This is why maps are a thing of the past!

DCCDPro Team
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by DCCDPro; 01-02-2014 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Adding links and editorial
DCCDPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 08:22 AM   #2
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Is the data processing fast enough for this module to get the DCCD open in time for ABS to work properly?

The OEM gets the signal from the speed sensors, or from the ABS ECU directly, by the time this module gets the signal from the g sensor and evaluates that the ABS probably will go on, is there still time to open the DCCD?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 02:20 PM   #3
DCCDPro
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 227549
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Default

Hi Vlad,

Great question. First remember that the ABS control is also a processing based system that needs to evaluate the difference between front axle wheel speed compared to the back and then if it passes a threshold, send the activation signal to valves to intermittently open and close the pressure on brake cylinders. Mean time the processor in our DCCDPro Universal Controller (v25 and higher) has sensed the deceleration directly form high precision g-sensor with it's fast response (1 millisecond), no comparison needed and has applied the proper response (cut off) to clutch plates electrically.
As you see the reaction will be much faster and would not affect ABS functionality. Our beta tests through out also confirm this.
Please let me know if you have further questions.

Kind regards,
-Jeff Reid
DCCDPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2014, 11:08 AM   #4
DCCDPro
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 227549
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Default

Hi,

Just want to thank you all for encouragements we are receiving on posting this article
and hopefully we will have more of these educational pieces in 2014.

Kind regards,
-Jeff Reid
DCCDPro.com
DCCDPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2014, 10:32 PM   #5
666stars
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 221364
Join Date: Aug 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx EJ207 Ver 8
Wrb Dccd 5 speed now!

Default

Except that most controllers that are mappable have an auto mode as well. Didn't the wrc cars use programmable dccd from prodrive
666stars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2014, 11:15 AM   #6
DCCDPro
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 227549
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Default

Great question.The Auto mode in aftermarket controllers is either an average static map setting for common road conditions or a mode which allows you to switch maps rather than manually set the output (which disregards/disables all inputs,maps). When one looks closely at their specification, they are inherently static map based and that is why they ask you to switch to a specific map in non ordinary conditions. Just ask yourself, if it was not just a static map why would they even have any other map settings and ask you to switch between them.
DCCDPro Universal Controller is the only algorithm based system that does not require switching between maps to provide optimum output to DCCD mechanism.
I can't speak to WRC drivers with their unlimited resources.

Kind regards,
-Jeff
DCCDPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2014, 09:50 AM   #7
Subifantastic
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 381700
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default

Great improvement to the old map system as just eliminating switching maps is quite a technical achievement and also convenient for everyday drive having first hand experience with it myself. Keep up the good work guys!
Subifantastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 02:36 PM   #8
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Jeff,
with the DCCD Pro, as it comes with "standard" knobs, the upgrade listed on the site, to OEM knobs, does that change anything other than the knobs and pigtails?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 01:44 PM   #9
Spiider
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13680
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: DCCDPro.com
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
WRB

Default

Hi Vlad,

Yes, the oem knob and the standard knob are interchangeable.

Kind regards,
-Jeff
Spiider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2014, 04:49 PM   #10
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: EWG3071KelfordCams276/272
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

I think vlad is more referring to adjustment sensitivity between the switches...
rexworx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 12:27 PM   #11
Spiider
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13680
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: DCCDPro.com
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
WRB

Default

The OEM and dccdpro standard knob controls have the same sensitivity setting effect and also kick off search if changed after the system is adapted.

Kind regards,
-Jeff
Spiider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 12:31 PM   #12
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: EWG3071KelfordCams276/272
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

Thank you Jeff!
rexworx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 08:10 AM   #13
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

Thank you.
One more question:
The wiring for display in Sti cluster option, which you make available, by checking that checkbox you get what?
Wires coming out of the DCCD box that already have on them the proper pins to insert them into the Sti cluster connectors?
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:15 AM   #14
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: EWG3071KelfordCams276/272
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

You get wires and to figure it out yourself. Done it many times...
rexworx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 09:31 AM   #15
Vlad
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Powered by Sti V9 Spec C

Default

The figuring part is fine with me, I have the diagram.
The finding pins that suit the connector is what I'm thinking about.
Vlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 11:28 AM   #16
Trae32566
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 353990
Join Date: Apr 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Arlington, Texas
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza WRX 4dr
Black

Default

As a software engineer I have to say this is freaking awesome. It hurts my head every time I think about anything that uses tables where learning algorithms could be implemented. My question is who will eventually do this for the ECU. I know it's possible but unfortunately the hardware for current ECUs is not very powerful. Anyway, awesome work
Trae32566 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2014, 10:51 PM   #17
Shifter Kart
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 219740
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Vehicle:
2000 Sti Type R

Default

so glad I found this thread.

I have an STi Type R rally car, with the 5 speed w/ DCCD and im looking to see if I can convert my center diff into an active unit. checked out your website and I like what im seeing. only thing that the website didnt mention was for a function for the handbrake, where the diff would open when the handbrake gets pulled. does your controller have this?
Shifter Kart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 05:27 AM   #18
point78
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 344329
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Denver
Vehicle:
2008 Wrx, 6mt

Default

^^^^ yup ^^^^
point78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 01:10 PM   #19
Trae32566
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 353990
Join Date: Apr 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Arlington, Texas
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza WRX 4dr
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifter Kart View Post
so glad I found this thread.

I have an STi Type R rally car, with the 5 speed w/ DCCD and im looking to see if I can convert my center diff into an active unit. checked out your website and I like what im seeing. only thing that the website didnt mention was for a function for the handbrake, where the diff would open when the handbrake gets pulled. does your controller have this?
I'd also try a car with a viscous center diff if you haven't (if a buddy gas one or something) . I did some research a few months back and a lot if people actually prefer viscous center diffs.
Trae32566 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2014, 04:45 PM   #20
Zefy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105104
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada
Vehicle:
1979 BRAT / 01 RSTI
99 2.5TS (DEAD) / 87 GL

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae32566 View Post
I'd also try a car with a viscous center diff if you haven't (if a buddy gas one or something) . I did some research a few months back and a lot if people actually prefer viscous center diffs.
for what kind of driving?
Zefy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 10:01 AM   #21
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: EWG3071KelfordCams276/272
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae32566 View Post
As a software engineer I have to say this is freaking awesome. It hurts my head every time I think about anything that uses tables where learning algorithms could be implemented. My question is who will eventually do this for the ECU. I know it's possible but unfortunately the hardware for current ECUs is not very powerful. Anyway, awesome work
Realistically the DCCDPro isnt powerful enough either. Ask me how I know...
rexworx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 10:02 AM   #22
rexworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: EWG3071KelfordCams276/272
Vehicle:
MY05 GDA,MY04FXT6spd
2.5ltr,PPG,Front LSD,4.44

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifter Kart View Post
so glad I found this thread.

I have an STi Type R rally car, with the 5 speed w/ DCCD and im looking to see if I can convert my center diff into an active unit. checked out your website and I like what im seeing. only thing that the website didnt mention was for a function for the handbrake, where the diff would open when the handbrake gets pulled. does your controller have this?

Cough MAPDCCD Cough...
rexworx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 10:36 AM   #23
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2012 Forester 2.5X
2002 WRX Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexworx View Post
Cough MAPDCCD Cough...
I also prefer the MapDCCD. It does have auto mode as well. Here are some photos, and if you scroll down I have posted some thoughts on it.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2463408&page=3
xluben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 12:33 PM   #24
AFBeefcake
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27874
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Griswold,CT
Vehicle:
2002 WRX 6MT 312whp
05 LGT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
The figuring part is fine with me, I have the diagram.
The finding pins that suit the connector is what I'm thinking about.
buy a used cluster harness and steal some pins out of it. That's what I did.
AFBeefcake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 12:34 PM   #25
AFBeefcake
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 27874
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Griswold,CT
Vehicle:
2002 WRX 6MT 312whp
05 LGT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifter Kart View Post
so glad I found this thread.

I have an STi Type R rally car, with the 5 speed w/ DCCD and im looking to see if I can convert my center diff into an active unit. checked out your website and I like what im seeing. only thing that the website didnt mention was for a function for the handbrake, where the diff would open when the handbrake gets pulled. does your controller have this?
Yes, I believe it does. When I installed mine there is a wire you connect to the parking brake switch.
AFBeefcake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.