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Old 12-13-2013, 04:33 PM   #1
T-dub
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OMGHi2U BRZ or STI for the track

So...I lost a debate with the wife last night and now I have to buy a new car. The question is should I get an STI or a BRZ? I know that I will probably mod the suspension, chassis bracing and bushings on either before I am happy with it. Anyone with experiences tracking both models I would love it if you could give me your $0.02. I will also be using it as a daily driver, but my commute is 6 miles a day total so that is a minor consideration. I don't like under powered cars, but I hate under steer even more. I have not driven a BRZ yet, but I'll be test driving one very soon.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-dub View Post
So...I lost a debate with the wife last night and now I have to buy a new car. The question is should I get an STI or a BRZ? I know that I will probably mod the suspension, chassis bracing and bushings on either before I am happy with it. Anyone with experiences tracking both models I would love it if you could give me your $0.02. I will also be using it as a daily driver, but my commute is
Personally BRZ handles a lot better stock for stock, but on a high speed course, it lacks the power. BRZ also gets a lot better MPG. If you're just looking for handling/commuter purposes, I would go BRZ. On the other hand, STI is easier to make power out of obviously
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:57 PM   #3
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BRZ with a supercharger.....
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:58 PM   #4
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BRZ with a supercharger.....
Yeah, I'm sure once I'm happy with the suspension i will want a little more power, thats kind of why I'm on the fence.

Last edited by T-dub; 12-13-2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:24 PM   #5
Irv Weissmanhowerton
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used brz, save money for a built motor/turbo, or sti motor swap in it, & have best of both worlds
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:51 PM   #6
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Forced induction BRZ.

Do you want to learn to drive, or do you want the car to drive for you?

Track times are actually shockingly similar between the two, unless you have a HEAVILY power-centric course (e.g. Auto Club Speedway Roval)
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:06 PM   #7
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Go for handling first if you are just getting into the track, you can always add power.

BRZ should be a great platform to start from
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #8
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I've owned very modified WRXs and now own a BRZ and I'd take the BRZ. It's a lot of fun even in stock form with a better set of tires. If you have courses with long straights you'll be getting passed by higher HP cars, but it doesn't make it any less fun really.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:45 PM   #9
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I own a brz and I previously owned a 08 wrx, the brz is a blast, even without the hp, it's not that slow... It handles like a dream though, but I am I'm the process of turboing it too so I would say do that
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dwx View Post
I've owned very modified WRXs and now own a BRZ and I'd take the BRZ. It's a lot of fun even in stock form with a better set of tires. If you have courses with long straights you'll be getting passed by higher HP cars, but it doesn't make it any less fun really.
U are right sir
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:36 PM   #11
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In the long run, depending on how frequently you go at the track, having a BRZ at the track will prove to be much cheaper than running a STI.
Consumables on the BRZ will most likely be cheaper and last longer than whatever you'll end up buying for the STI. In this case, weight is the enemy of our wallets (chewing through tires, brake pads and rotors).
That's my .02 based on my ongoing experience with tracking my WRX.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
BRZ with a supercharger.....
That would be quite cool. Had I bought the brz I would have leaned this way. I think a supercharged wrx would be more fun than the laggy turbos.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by lazypnoyboy View Post

Personally BRZ handles a lot better stock for stock, but on a high speed course, it lacks the power. BRZ also gets a lot better MPG. If you're just looking for handling/commuter purposes, I would go BRZ. On the other hand, STI is easier to make power out of obviously
There's more to a commuter than mpg. I wouldn't want to drive in a coffin every day. The impreza is as tiny as I could ever stand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-dub View Post
So...I lost a debate with the wife last night and now I have to buy a new car. The question is should I get an STI or a BRZ? I know that I will probably mod the suspension, chassis bracing and bushings on either before I am happy with it. Anyone with experiences tracking both models I would love it if you could give me your $0.02. I will also be using it as a daily driver, but my commute is 6 miles a day total so that is a minor consideration. I don't like under powered cars, but I hate under steer even more. I have not driven a BRZ yet, but I'll be test driving one very soon.
Understeer can be tuned out relatively cheaply. The power gap will cost you thousands. The brz lost me with the NA. It will be much more appealing when boosted from Subaru themselves.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-dub View Post
So...I lost a debate with the wife last night and now I have to buy a new car. The question is should I get an STI or a BRZ? I know that I will probably mod the suspension, chassis bracing and bushings on either before I am happy with it. Anyone with experiences tracking both models I would love it if you could give me your $0.02. I will also be using it as a daily driver, but my commute is 6 miles a day total so that is a minor consideration. I don't like under powered cars, but I hate under steer even more. I have not driven a BRZ yet, but I'll be test driving one very soon.
Heres a good question. You want fun or quicker lap times. Fun? BRZ duh. Quicker? Sti. In general the STI would be the best have your cake and eat it to scenario.

STI, left mostly stock or exhaust and tune at most with springs, shocks, sway bars, and a good tire on the oem wheels is going to get you a fast car with real sporting movement and responses.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:57 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Swine View Post

Heres a good question. You want fun or quicker lap times. Fun? BRZ duh. Quicker? Sti. In general the STI would be the best have your cake and eat it to scenario.

STI, left mostly stock or exhaust and tune at most with springs, shocks, sway bars, and a good tire on the oem wheels is going to get you a fast car with real sporting movement and responses.
Unless acceleration is fun then the brz is feeble. At least wait for second or third year brz. This current model is the first. And everybody knows the first model year is usually quickly left behind in many MANY areas. Not just performance.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:27 AM   #16
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Unless acceleration is fun then the brz is feeble. .
huh
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:55 PM   #17
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Are you a track rookie or veteran? If you're a rookie, BRZ hands down.

If you're a veteran, then you have to factor in the following:
1. STi has more expensive consumables. It is also heavier and will use up it's tires and brakes faster. Then there are gasoline and insurance cost differences as well.
2. Turbo engine runs hotter at the track, and can limit your run time on a very hot day, even keeping the STi engine stock. You will want a radiator upgrade in short time, considering you are in the south.
3. BRZ handles extremely well out of the box, where the STi wants some suspension re-balancing to combat understeer and rear lift under heavy breaking, even with stock width summer tires.
4. Do you want to be able to drive like a maniac? The STi supports over-aggressive driving without too much fanfare (even though it is faster to drive properly), but the BRZ demands proper driving to hold good speed. Being relatively underpowered, though, the BRZ's attitude remains much more stable when you mash the throttle.

*Disclaimer: I have not personally driven the BRZ on track, but some of my STi buddies at the track have, and we have discussed a lot of this at length.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:03 PM   #18
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I would say you won the debate with your wife....
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:07 PM   #19
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I would say you won the debate with your wife....
that's a damn fine point, and exactly what I was thinking when I read this.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post

that's a damn fine point, and exactly what I was thinking when I read this.
And yet she thinks she won. Damn I'm good. I kills me to get rid of my wrx. i put so much time and $$$$ into that car to get it Where it is. She's not too crazy about the idea of supercharging a brand new car, but I think I can make a good business case, since that will still cost less than an Sti. I'm going for a test drive today.
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:09 PM   #21
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Hmmm, quick and nimble or a flying brick? Yup that's a tough one!

Seriously though, you will have more fun in a BRZ.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post
Are you a track rookie or veteran? If you're a rookie, BRZ hands down.
Ok, i have a problem with that statement, and thought maybe you were just misguided and trying to argue on weird points. But then you said the below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post
4. Do you want to be able to drive like a maniac? The STi supports over-aggressive driving without too much fanfare (even though it is faster to drive properly), but the BRZ demands proper driving to hold good speed. Being relatively underpowered, though, the BRZ's attitude remains much more stable when you mash the throttle.
Which supports the idea the STI is much more tame to push to its limits, which was my point, which supports the idea that the STI would be the better rookie car then the BRZ.

That being said, rookie or veteran, both would be just fine depending on if the driver is looking for the light, nimble, classic rwd driving experience or the safety, confidence, and power delivery and/or lap time potential of a good awd platform.

Last edited by Swine; 12-14-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:19 PM   #23
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Which supports the idea the STI is much more tame to push to its limits, which was my point, which supports the idea that the STI would be the better rookie car then the BRZ.
Not really. Most people would argue that you'll learn more in a momentum car, which the BRZ is. Being able to go too aggressively into a corner doesn't make the car better for beginners. In fact it hides their mistakes. Being able to step over the limit at lower speeds tends to make a car safer to learn on. And one that punishes small mistakes by scrubbing noticeable speed while still being simple to control is ideal for learning more. The STi won't scrub as much speed for over-driving it as the BRZ.
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:03 PM   #24
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Thanks for the input guys. I just bought a brz. The decision seed pretty obvious after I drove it.
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:14 PM   #25
Swine
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Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post
Not really. Most people would argue that you'll learn more in a momentum car, which the BRZ is. Being able to go too aggressively into a corner doesn't make the car better for beginners. In fact it hides their mistakes. Being able to step over the limit at lower speeds tends to make a car safer to learn on. And one that punishes small mistakes by scrubbing noticeable speed while still being simple to control is ideal for learning more. The STi won't scrub as much speed for over-driving it as the BRZ.
Learn more? YES, the BRZ will teach you more. No argument.

Hiding mistakes? Sure the STI awd platform will do that, and its not the best approach. But i would rather be riding instructor in a nice tame, safe, awd platform coaching a driver where they may be over driving then something that has the real potential to bite. If you want to ride shotgun with trigger happy newbie in a BRZ rather then a STI in turn 11 on road atlanta, be my guest. Silly.

Step over the limits at lower speeds? He already said he plans of a full compliment of bolts and a power adder for the brz. If anything, its limits should be quite high, i believe. The only real difference is going to be the way the car breaks traction. Again, i would much much much rather be riding shotgun in a car pushing with a new driver then in a short chassis rwd car and the ass hung out. But if we are talking "in general" and a stock brz then yes, you could have a point there.

Scrubbing speed w/ mistakes. Sure, i guess the lighter car would scrub more speed with mistakes. Ill give you that as long as you give that the BRZ has the higher potential of having a yard sale mistake then an Sti.

No such thing as a fool proof car, but i am firm on my stance that i would much rather be coaching a new guy in a nice, lightly under-steering highly stable chassis then a short chassis rwd car with similar hp and grip. I mainly participate in safe, fun track days though. Not much competition, if i were coaching a driver to compete/race then maybe i would feel differently. If im picking a car to throw a new driver in and coach em up with the success factor being that everyone goes home intact including the car....im choosing the stable under steering platform. Thanks. Sorry for the OT rant.


Back on topic: sweet pick up OP, id be in a BRZ as well. Going to be a fun little ripper, which S/C kits are you considering?

Last edited by Swine; 12-14-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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