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Old 01-06-2014, 10:39 PM   #51
SCRAPPYDO
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We will keep adding nannies to cars until they do everything for us. It will be marketed as a luxury, and thus it will become instantly enviable. I look for Mercedes and infiniti to push this forward the most.


This is the world richde wants. Look NO ACCIDENTS EVER. They must all be GREAT drivers.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:40 PM   #52
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Aw, little baby can't come up with anything to back up his claims so he starts building strawmen.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:42 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by richde View Post
The safety of the car itself is reflected in the drastically reduced fatality rates.



Nothing you've posted has proven anything.

Where is your proof that people are getting worse at driving? What better metric is there than the accident rate? Your unsubstantiated hunch?

Proof is how you prove something, you should try it sometime.
I do not expect you to be able to critically think buddy.

It is common sense that if you never require a person to think THEY WILL NOT.

If you never require a person to swim they will grow up not knowing how to swim.

Are you seriously so short sighted and sheltered you cannot grasp this concept.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:46 PM   #54
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Aw, little baby can't come up with anything to back up his claims so he starts building strawmen.
It is no fun arguing with you. You run out of intellect too soon.

You just cannot fathom that roads themselves became safer
The amount of drinking and driving in the US has DRASTICALLY decreased in the past 20 years
The amount of leisure driving declines when economic times are bad, and the chances of accidents go way up leisure driving (such as driving somewhere for entertainment or pleasure)
There are many other variables.

And lets not forget that you have done NOTHING to prove drivers have become any better either. A dozen other more likely variables can account for a reduction of collisions. THe census shows a different number of accidents than your graph by the way. Far less dramatic. But please carry on with your single metric world.

Last edited by SCRAPPYDO; 01-06-2014 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:02 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
It is no fun arguing with you. You run out of intellect too soon.
Until you come up with some proof, there's no argument. It's just you being wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
You just cannot fathom that roads themselves became safer
The amount of drinking and driving in the US has DRASTICALLY decreased in the past 20 years
The amount of leisure driving declines when economic times are bad, and the chances of accidents go way up leisure driving (such as driving somewhere for entertainment or pleasure)
There are many other variables.
Drinking and driving would be considered inattentive driving because the driver doesn't care about the repercussions of their actions, the same kind of thing that you're suggesting is increasing...but it's not.

It's obvious that you don't understand that a rate based on per mile driven means, or that the data goes back further than 2009.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
And lets not forget that you have done NOTHING to prove drivers have become any better either. A dozen other more likely variables can account for a reduction of collisions. THe census shows a different number of accidents than your graph by the way. Far less dramatic. But please carry on with your single metric world.
You're just looking at census numbers and not adjusting for the amount of activity. The very fact that the population, and the amount of miles driven, is increasing while accidents are decreasing shows just how wrong you are....and how you don't understand statistics in even the most basic sense.

What I've shown you is that a pretty damn good indicator of bad driving (accidents) is decreasing. You haven't proven anything but continue to create false arguments to support your theory. Maybe if there's no data to prove your theory you might want to re-think it.

Last edited by richde; 01-06-2014 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:06 PM   #56
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So it is your word against mine.

You say people have become better drivers, and have no real proof.
and I say people have become worse drivers, and have no real proof.

So in the end, what have we accomplished?
You all by yourself have shown that you have no idea how human beings behave.
and I have shown that you have no ability to think outside your little tiny box.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:14 PM   #57
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Whats more important? Thinking about driving and building that hand eye brain coordination or having the car or chauffeur take over those responsibilities while you utilize you're intelligence for more purposeful pursuits? There's a reason people have drivers. Oh and most of those people have cars they can tool around in on the weekend. Not burdening youself with skills needed to get you through hours of endless traffic congestion frees you up, oh wait there won't be congestion due to the lack of accidents caused by some idiot fender bender. I'll take the back up cameras, abs, self driving cars and any other tech they can throw at me just so long as I can still have the ability to drive myself from time to time. It is America after all.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:30 PM   #58
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You do realize that there are many many 10's of millions of people who do not spend hours in congestion in this very country.

MOre powerful pursuits… like posting selfies of yourself being driven. Please do not act like we will all turn into some kind of Greek Socratic think tank if we could just free ourselves of driving…

The majority of people would sleep or drink coffee or post on Facebook.


Again richde you still are failing to prove a single point, except that you cannot think beyond your simple outlook on life.

Please stop… you are intent on focusing on one thing, while proving nothing. Yes, crashes per mile driven have gone down, but unlike you, I can attribute that to many other variables other than drivers getting better, which they are not. Cars are getting better, and roads, and conditions, but not drivers. Driver education is abysmal, it takes almost no skill to make a car move. Put it in D and push pedal. There is not a single variable that makes people better skilled drivers, but there are a whole lot of things that make them less skilled. And it is human nature to be lazy when we can get the same results.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:31 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
We will keep adding nannies to cars until they do everything for us. It will be marketed as a luxury, and thus it will become instantly enviable. I look for Mercedes and infiniti to push this forward the most.


This is the world richde wants. Look NO ACCIDENTS EVER. They must all be GREAT drivers.


Clearly 95% of you have no idea how to survive in the wild.

And you call yourselves men.

Same logic, still comes from someone who doesn't know it's can go both ways. You might as well go back to 1984 and wear tin foil hats and assume the world is flat.

And another thing, Disney loves exaggerations and anything that ends with a happy ending when it comes to movies. Pirates of the Caribbean is no exception. But you wouldn't know that. You want Disney to go back to videocassette tapes.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:43 PM   #60
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You do realize that there are many many 10's of millions of people who do not spend hours in congestion in this very country.

MOre powerful pursuits… like posting selfies of yourself being driven. Please do not act like we will all turn into some kind of Greek Socratic think tank if we could just free ourselves of driving…

The majority of people would sleep or drink coffee or post on Facebook.

Again richde you still are failing to prove a single point, except that you cannot think beyond your simple outlook on life.

Please stop… you are intent on focusing on one thing, while proving nothing. Yes, crashes per mile driven have gone down, but unlike you, I can attribute that to many other variables other than drivers getting better, which they are not. Cars are getting better, and roads, and conditions, but not drivers. Driver education is abysmal, it takes almost no skill to make a car move. Put it in D and push pedal. There is not a single variable that makes people better skilled drivers, but there are a whole lot of things that make them less skilled. And it is human nature to be lazy when we can get the same results.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91406X20130205

One article of course...

Selfies are a fad...

Most people will not sleep while being driven from point a to b due to shorter more efficient commut times and in drive entertainment...

By that time, ...Daddy what's Facebook?
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:47 PM   #61
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It shows that the accident rate is falling in a pretty graph.

You can do the same thing by looking at the census data and then dividing that by the amount of miles driven, but that's a lot of work and I figured a simple graph would get the point across.

It also doesn't say anything about "highway," it says "per vehicle mile traveled in the United States." That's how you determine the accident rate...which is going down...which would show that drivers aren't getting worse, because worse drivers would get into more accidents.
I just didn't like the correlation to cell phones. Left side description of miles list it as highway miles.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:49 PM   #62
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Can the cameras be used to store my street racing footage?
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:50 PM   #63
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Can the cameras be used to store my street racing footage?
Big brother...
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:52 PM   #64
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What I worry about is the spiral effect we cannot get out of.
Make cars safer and smarter, people become worse drivers and stop thinking.
So you have to make cars safer and smarter
People stop thinking even more
So cars have to get smarter and smarter and safer and safer.
This I disagree with as most vehicles that I see people that driving like crap are older vehicles, and this sampling is just my observation in a large metropolitan area. Number one craptastic driving vehicles seem to be 5th gen Accords. However, the would coincide with socioeconomic stuff like, richer people are smarter and thus drive newer safer cars.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:55 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
So it is your word against mine.

You say people have become better drivers, and have no real proof.
and I say people have become worse drivers, and have no real proof.

So in the end, what have we accomplished?
You all by yourself have shown that you have no idea how human beings behave.
and I have shown that you have no ability to think outside your little tiny box.
Or you are both right because there are just more of both?
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:00 AM   #66
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Do we need more polarization in this completely insane culture? I guess we do.
Big brother approved.
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:09 AM   #67
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I believe that all the new technology going into cars these days to make them "safer" is a bandaid to the problem of driver education in our country.
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:31 AM   #68
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Can the cameras be used to store my street racing footage?
Don't forget to post them online and then get arrested for it.


And then we can make another thread where the speed limiter on cars is being lowered to 100 by the government because some dumbass decided to speed as well as try to drift like a retard only to smash into a minivan full of kids killing half of them.



But I doubt you'll be able street race much in a 2003 Subaru Outback.
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:50 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
So it is your word against mine.

You say people have become better drivers, and have no real proof.
and I say people have become worse drivers, and have no real proof.

So in the end, what have we accomplished?
You all by yourself have shown that you have no idea how human beings behave.
and I have shown that you have no ability to think outside your little tiny box.
What would be a better metric than the accident rate?

If you've got some sort of proof, I'd be more than willing to entertain your theory. But since it was looking up your theory in the first place that showed it to be incorrect, there's no reason to venture outside of my box because it's nice and right in here and very cold and wrong in your world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
I just didn't like the correlation to cell phones. Left side description of miles list it as highway miles.
So ignore the cell phone part and look at the accident rate, but that is pretty interesting and not what I expected to find. Any mileage information would be from the NHSTA, which tracks vehicle miles, btw.

Hint: It's really hard to find a graph showing accident rates instead of fatality rates.

I wonder if Scrappy got so fired up a few years ago about the mandating of stability control as well. Sounds like we've got a chicken little on our hands.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:13 AM   #70
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OH I don't know, a better metric, could be pass fail rate of drivers tests as pathetic as they are. How about median age of drivers. Younger drivers are worse than older drivers. What is the median age of drivers. Could that be a factor. I would bet the average age of drivers has risen over the past 10 - 15 years. As our population gets older so does the average age of drivers.

My point is the variables effecting how many accidents is limited to ONE thing.

I am not saying we are not having fewer accidents, I am questioning your IMMEDIATE and 100% opinion that it is due to driver skill level alone, is seriously flawed. I think that is simple minded and naive. You refuse to think that it is about a dozen or so other variables all contributing to the lower accident rates. You fixate on, 'Welp it must be better drivers, derp, nothing else could cause accident rates on the highway to go down, nope, deep, nut'n else.'

Lower accidents over the past 10 years does not point to better drivers, your logic is flawed, it points to many many things. So your graph is not proof. You need something else. Prove people have become better. Better yet, prove what is making people better.

Come on wake up.

That graph lists highway miles driven. I am not sure how they come up with that metric alone. I would like to see the source of that graph, and its data sample as it may shed more light on things.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:59 AM   #71
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I believe that all the new technology going into cars these days to make them "safer" is a bandaid to the problem of driver education in our country.
Ding! Ding! Ding!


The USA has some of the lowest requirements for driver education and licensing. It is very cheap and very easy to get a license here, probably because making it expensive and difficult would result in a law suit against someone's freedom. Someone would get offended that they suck and driving and don't get the privilege because they feel it's their given right. People in this country are increasingly unaware of their surroundings. Instead of making the driver education process more detailed and difficult we simply make it mandatory that cars have more "safety" features.

Safety features like ABS and ESC are great. I think these are a wonderful advancement in the driving safety of a vehicle. They help a driver better control the car. Adaptive cruise control and lane departure warning allow a driver to NOT pay attention. You can look down and text or do your makeup and the car will beep when you need to steer or apply the brakes if you get to close to the car in front of you. At some level I'm happy that the idiot doing her makeup or texting his girlfriend has these features as they reduce the likelihood that these horrible drivers hit me or a loved one. It doesn't change the fact that each new "safety" feature allows people to get away with being a poorer driver.

Those of us who are good drivers and actually enjoy driving now have to pay more money for features we don't want or need. We don't like the word "mandatory". Make them optional so we can choose NOT to buy them and don't have to deal with systems which are invasive and reduce our driving enjoyment. It's getting expensive for some of us to buy a new car because we have to look at $45k+ sports car or sport coupe/sedan to have the option to turn off all these annoying features with some form of competition mode.

Last edited by Scooby921; 01-07-2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason: $45 and $45k are a bit different...oops
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:21 AM   #72
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But I doubt you'll be able street race much in a 2003 Subaru Outback.
How do you know what car I drive? I think we have an NSA spy up in here.

I was thinking about buying a miata though... I can street race that, right?
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:01 AM   #73
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Ding! Ding! Ding!


The USA has some of the lowest requirements for driver education and licensing. It is very cheap and very easy to get a license here, probably because making it expensive and difficult would result in a law suit against someone's freedom. Someone would get offended that they suck and driving and don't get the privilege because they feel it's their given right. People in this country are increasingly unaware of their surroundings. Instead of making the driver education process more detailed and difficult we simply make it mandatory that cars have more "safety" features.

Safety features like ABS and ESC are great. I think these are a wonderful advancement in the driving safety of a vehicle. They help a driver better control the car. Adaptive cruise control and lane departure warning allow a driver to NOT pay attention. You can look down and text or do your makeup and the car will beep when you need to steer or apply the brakes if you get to close to the car in front of you. At some level I'm happy that the idiot doing her makeup or texting his girlfriend has these features as they reduce the likelihood that these horrible drivers hit me or a loved one. It doesn't change the fact that each new "safety" feature allows people to get away with being a poorer driver.

Those of us who are good drivers and actually enjoy driving now have to pay more money for features we don't want or need. We don't like the word "mandatory". Make them optional so we can choose NOT to buy them and don't have to deal with systems which are invasive and reduce our driving enjoyment. It's getting expensive for some of us to buy a new car because we have to look at $45+ sports car or sport coupe/sedan to have the option to turn off all these annoying features with some form of competition mode.
Damn, somebody else gets it!!!

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Old 01-07-2014, 10:22 AM   #74
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Damn, somebody else gets it!!!

Hey, just because I didn't post doesn't mean I don't get it :P.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:39 AM   #75
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Mostly I like most the advancements in technology, but mandating by the government is perhaps not the best answer. The market should be able to handle it if insurance companies are paying any attention. Some people would pay quite a lot more for insurance, but that would be completely under their own control.

The only real problem is that it doesn't work now. E.g. jack your truck up so the bumper is at my window level, and in a perfect world your insurance is going to be pretty insane. Maybe if insurance companies automatically got billed for $6.1M for every death one of their policyholders caused, there would be more action.
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