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Old 05-30-2014, 05:13 PM   #401
manys
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Oh my, blind leading the blind
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Old 05-30-2014, 05:29 PM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
What method did you use to prime the engine?
Its a couple of pages back but I primed the car with the oil filter removed until oil came out of the oil cooler. I then ( with ign fuse pulled ) turned it over for 3-4 20 second intervals. Gauge wasnt saying anything just yet but I thought I may have messed up the wiring etc. Have had some tough times with certain brands of gauges.

Anyways, after that, I started it up and it started knocking immediately. Then I looked at the gauge and boom 95 psi or so of oil pressure ..
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:58 AM   #403
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Default I feel your pain

I'm getting kind of scared as well, Kinda in the same boat as you
I'm on EJ block #4
I'm at Step Dump oil. Fill up with more oil
Drive hard and normal for 500 miles into my break in period @ with 400mi
05 STI fresh long block 10k rebuilt and every now and then when I'll Do a Cold start I hear a heavy Clicking clacking sounds just like this... only for 1-2 seconds then goes away right away and each and everytime i hear it with a cold start its starting to get louder.
Just from feeling and hearing I'm thinking the ACL bearing spun or moved during cold start.
I'm starting to think if Thermal expansion could have been a big factor screwed us over during the rebuild.
Or is it just a bad fit or maybe something in the oil system got stuck into one of the journal bearings from last motor explosion. I'll try and catch the sound during my next cold start but I'm pretty sure its Bearing related oil starvation issue.Damn sure does suck to start Pulling and cracking open again >.<.
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Old 05-31-2014, 12:41 PM   #404
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Indeed... It does stink pulling it again, but you're so much better the second time around lol. I pulled the entire and had it all torn apart in around 6-7 hours ( better this time ).

So what do you guys think I need to get? New rod bearings obviously... Do you think the main bearings need replacement as well?? I think I may need a new crankshaft though. Some gouging on the crank that I can feel with my nail. Not sure if that could be resurfaced.

Here's the crank damage:

Last edited by BeastianSTI; 05-31-2014 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 05-31-2014, 01:26 PM   #405
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If the scores are running with the journal, you should be OK. If they're running against it, you'll need a new one. I would replace all the bearings while I'm in there too. Even if they look ok, is worth the gamble to be back where you are now?
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:33 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by hogdweeb View Post
If the scores are running with the journal, you should be OK. If they're running against it, you'll need a new one. I would replace all the bearings while I'm in there too. Even if they look ok, is worth the gamble to be back where you are now?
So the scoring on the crank in the picture appears to be with the journal, right ? Tracing the outer diameter of the journal
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:15 PM   #407
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I'm on my phone, can't get a good view. Are they ribbing around the journal, or perpendicular to it?
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Old 05-31-2014, 05:18 PM   #408
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I'm on my phone, can't get a good view. Are they ribbing around the journal, or perpendicular to it?

Ribbing I think
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:06 PM   #409
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Sorry, meant to be running. Swipe has a bad habit of putting in words that I didn't slide over.if they're running with the journal they'll be going around it, not front to back as the crankshaft would sit in the engine.
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Old 05-31-2014, 10:44 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by hogdweeb View Post
Sorry, meant to be running. Swipe has a bad habit of putting in words that I didn't slide over.if they're running with the journal they'll be going around it, not front to back as the crankshaft would sit in the engine.
Gotcha. What does everyone else think on this ?
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:47 AM   #411
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Id replace all bearings and proly the crank. Anythin that catches your nail can't be that good. Sell it for a 100 to someone that wants to use a polished crank and buy a new one for 350
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:17 AM   #412
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Id replace all bearings and proly the crank. Anythin that catches your nail can't be that good. Sell it for a 100 to someone that wants to use a polished crank and buy a new one for 350
If the scores are running with the journal, and they're that bad, the crank can be turned for less then buying a new one...then again, we can't see the depth of them so that's something he has to bring up with his machinest. If they're running against it, he's better off buying a new one. He didn't have the engine any higher then an idle, and from what I've read when he heard it he shut it down. I'm not arguing your point, however we both have good options and ultimately, it's a decision to be made with him and his machinest.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:07 AM   #413
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Just play it safe and get the new 2011+ crank and new bearings is cleaner and think it would be less money if you try to put it back together again and the same thing happens less likely to repeat what u just did happened.
I say play it safe go new.
that crank is already compromised who knows how long it will last durning a heavy tune gives more room for errors during the next few year or months lol.
little bit easy to blueprint if you do it your self with new parts.
money for quality and you get what you pay for don't go cheap.
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Old 06-01-2014, 12:27 PM   #414
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There is a lot of opinion in this thread so Im going to give you my 0.02. I have 10 years on subys and I build suby motors. Have great success at it to, including decent power builds. I do all my own work if I can.

Replace that crank. You don't want to machine it for couple of reasons. One is they are cheap. It will cost you probably 100 dollars to machine it. New one is roughly 320. Also when you machine it, you remove the harding off the surface so what you are left with is a weaker surface. Sure a machine shop will tell you it will be ok, and it will be for awhile. But you don't want to build an engine for awhile, you want to build an engine for as long as possible and as good as possible. If thats not your goal, buy a stock engine.

Buy you some mics and bore gauges. Fowler stuff will work, I don't care what big shots say, sure its not mitsitoyo stuff or starrett stuff, but the results are repeatable and accurate enough. You need to get the most accurate you can, I have electronic bore gauge reads to 0.00005" IIRC and outer mics that read to 0.0001" and they will repeat measurements daily. Even if you have machine shop do your work you can double check behind them, that way you know its right.

On rods shoot for 0.002" +- 0.0002" and on mains 0.0015" +- 0.0002". Some differ on those specs, but that shouldn't cause a problem. On PTW loose is better than tight, yeah it'll make noise and wear rings little quicker but it won't seize a piston. On 2618 0.0035" and 4032 0.003"

When you are done with all machine, clean the crap out of the engine. Better yet, have the machine shop hot tank it. When putting the pistons in the holes use ATF on the rings and the bores, don't use engine oil as it cause carbon spots to form. Use some good assembly lube on the bearings, as you seem to did. Clean, clean, clean, and when you think you have clean, clean some more. Buy you couple of cans of brake clean as it works well clean aluminum surfaces. If you need to label stuff like bucket to keep them organized. Im a mess when I build an engine, it looks like a tornado hit, but its an organized tornado and I know where every single bolt is as I have weird way of doing things. I just reringed an FB25 that pays 12.5 under warranty, I think it took me that long to clean all the silicon off the engine, seriously. Engine work is all about how much time and attention you pay to the parts and how well you organize and clean them. Also proper lubrication is a big key. But if you had assembly lube on the bearing, you didn't hurt them when you started it up, even if you didn't prime it. Every one on her says to prime engines, and its a great idea. But thats what the assembly lube is for, when there is no oil. An engine at 300 rpms aka starter speed doesn't pull much oil and has to spin a lot, even with the plugs out. But an engine at 1200+1500 rpms with assembly lube on all the surface and some ATF in cylinders to lube the rings and to seal them will prime the engine way quicker than the guys who spend half day priming the motor. Most of guys who talk about priming only know of that because of NABISCO. Also there is another trick of trade for you, half cap of ATF on top of pistons, will instantly start and engine on startup as rings will seal on first cycle, it won't spin and spin as it tries to build compression.

Let me also be clear about my priming statement above, prime the engine before starting. I usually turn them over couple of times to get the oil light to turn off. Once that happens, fire that baby up. There is no need to worry about the turbo, I put some oil in it as Im building the engine. Im sure it makes it way out but there is residual there. Also put assembly lube on the cams, cam lobes, under the buckets (after you verify lash) and any other lubricated rotating surface. That way there is no nonlubricated surface, techincally you can start that bitch with no oil and you should be just fine for at least few seconds, I highly don't recommend that.

Also don't cut any corners, if money is issue. I know were all not rich, then take time and gather it, or figure out way to try to make it work. Usually cutting corners in long run will result in just having to do it over again, like the guys who like to plastigauge bearings cause they don't want to spend $300 on mics, but then have bearing failure and swear its cause its a Suby. But they didn't mine spending that 300 on those fly A$$ nikes. I know we all don't have money, but if you want a race car, you gotta have race car budget or have the time to get a proper budget. Cutting corners usually leads to negative results.

Hopefully there is something in there for you or someone to learn, if not I tried

Last edited by bswilmington; 06-01-2014 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 06-01-2014, 01:17 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdweeb View Post
If the scores are running with the journal, and they're that bad, the crank can be turned for less then buying a new one...then again, we can't see the depth of them so that's something he has to bring up with his machinest. If they're running against it, he's better off buying a new one. He didn't have the engine any higher then an idle, and from what I've read when he heard it he shut it down. I'm not arguing your point, however we both have good options and ultimately, it's a decision to be made with him and his machinest.
you "could" turn the crank but it makes no sense to me. Saves you maybe 200$ and your left with a crank that lost its hardening off the surface and have fun mix matching bearings to get the wanted specs. Just less of a headache and the "right" way is to buy a new crank. Considering they arnt that expensive its a no brainier to me
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:30 PM   #416
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you "could" turn the crank but it makes no sense to me. Saves you maybe 200$ and your left with a crank that lost its hardening off the surface and have fun mix matching bearings to get the wanted specs. Just less of a headache and the "right" way is to buy a new crank. Considering they arnt that expensive its a no brainier to me
Yeah you guys are right. I am definitely going to buy a new crank. Now with that said, can I assume that I can use standard sized bearings and be a okay? BC recommends .0027 oil clearance for the rods, but they said .002 is acceptable.

Could I get extra clearanced rod bearings to put me at that number?
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Old 06-01-2014, 03:43 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

Yeah you guys are right. I am definitely going to buy a new crank. Now with that said, can I assume that I can use standard sized bearings and be a okay? BC recommends .0027 oil clearance for the rods, but they said .002 is acceptable.

Could I get extra clearanced rod bearings to put me at that number?
It seems like bearing sizes only increment the clearances by .001, which wont put me where I need to be. In the scenario where standard size puts you at .002 and extra clearance puts you at .003 but you want .0025.. what do you do ?
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:36 PM   #418
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Beastian. ..you have pm
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:29 PM   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bswilmington View Post
There is a lot of opinion in this thread so Im going to give you my 0.02. I have 10 years on subys and I build suby motors. Have great success at it to, including decent power builds. I do all my own work if I can.

Replace that crank. You don't want to machine it for couple of reasons. One is they are cheap. It will cost you probably 100 dollars to machine it. New one is roughly 320. Also when you machine it, you remove the harding off the surface so what you are left with is a weaker surface. Sure a machine shop will tell you it will be ok, and it will be for awhile. But you don't want to build an engine for awhile, you want to build an engine for as long as possible and as good as possible. If thats not your goal, buy a stock engine.

Buy you some mics and bore gauges. Fowler stuff will work, I don't care what big shots say, sure its not mitsitoyo stuff or starrett stuff, but the results are repeatable and accurate enough. You need to get the most accurate you can, I have electronic bore gauge reads to 0.00005" IIRC and outer mics that read to 0.0001" and they will repeat measurements daily. Even if you have machine shop do your work you can double check behind them, that way you know its right.

On rods shoot for 0.002" +- 0.0002" and on mains 0.0015" +- 0.0002". Some differ on those specs, but that shouldn't cause a problem. On PTW loose is better than tight, yeah it'll make noise and wear rings little quicker but it won't seize a piston. On 2618 0.0035" and 4032 0.003"

When you are done with all machine, clean the crap out of the engine. Better yet, have the machine shop hot tank it. When putting the pistons in the holes use ATF on the rings and the bores, don't use engine oil as it cause carbon spots to form. Use some good assembly lube on the bearings, as you seem to did. Clean, clean, clean, and when you think you have clean, clean some more. Buy you couple of cans of brake clean as it works well clean aluminum surfaces. If you need to label stuff like bucket to keep them organized. Im a mess when I build an engine, it looks like a tornado hit, but its an organized tornado and I know where every single bolt is as I have weird way of doing things. I just reringed an FB25 that pays 12.5 under warranty, I think it took me that long to clean all the silicon off the engine, seriously. Engine work is all about how much time and attention you pay to the parts and how well you organize and clean them. Also proper lubrication is a big key. But if you had assembly lube on the bearing, you didn't hurt them when you started it up, even if you didn't prime it. Every one on her says to prime engines, and its a great idea. But thats what the assembly lube is for, when there is no oil. An engine at 300 rpms aka starter speed doesn't pull much oil and has to spin a lot, even with the plugs out. But an engine at 1200+1500 rpms with assembly lube on all the surface and some ATF in cylinders to lube the rings and to seal them will prime the engine way quicker than the guys who spend half day priming the motor. Most of guys who talk about priming only know of that because of NABISCO. Also there is another trick of trade for you, half cap of ATF on top of pistons, will instantly start and engine on startup as rings will seal on first cycle, it won't spin and spin as it tries to build compression.

Let me also be clear about my priming statement above, prime the engine before starting. I usually turn them over couple of times to get the oil light to turn off. Once that happens, fire that baby up. There is no need to worry about the turbo, I put some oil in it as Im building the engine. Im sure it makes it way out but there is residual there. Also put assembly lube on the cams, cam lobes, under the buckets (after you verify lash) and any other lubricated rotating surface. That way there is no nonlubricated surface, techincally you can start that bitch with no oil and you should be just fine for at least few seconds, I highly don't recommend that.

Also don't cut any corners, if money is issue. I know were all not rich, then take time and gather it, or figure out way to try to make it work. Usually cutting corners in long run will result in just having to do it over again, like the guys who like to plastigauge bearings cause they don't want to spend $300 on mics, but then have bearing failure and swear its cause its a Suby. But they didn't mine spending that 300 on those fly A$$ nikes. I know we all don't have money, but if you want a race car, you gotta have race car budget or have the time to get a proper budget. Cutting corners usually leads to negative results.

Hopefully there is something in there for you or someone to learn, if not I tried
I like this guy ^^
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:26 PM   #420
BeastianSTI
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deleted....

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Old 06-01-2014, 06:27 PM   #421
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So I guess im going to try to link up with someone from a shop etc to dial mine in where they need to be (rods/mains)..
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:15 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Now with that said, can I assume that I can use standard sized bearings and be a okay? BC recommends .0027 oil clearance for the rods, but they said .002 is acceptable.

Could I get extra clearanced rod bearings to put me at that number?
I know it sucks but NO one can answer that for you. Buy standard size bearings and measure....only way to find out
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:13 PM   #423
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I know it sucks but NO one can answer that for you. Buy standard size bearings and measure....only way to find out
Ok so if I put standard rod bearings in, and it measures out at. 002", and the extra oil clearance bearing goes up .001, totalling .003. What do you do to dial into .0027?
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:26 PM   #424
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Beast,

When I set up manley rods for a 0.002" clearance I mix a King standard, and a King Std-X bearing halves to hit it. They ranged from 0.0018 - 0.0021 when I last did that. Team Scream I believe has done the same as well.

Hope that gives you some insight
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:39 PM   #425
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Question for you guys - just threw in a set of king main bearings - std size and I am getting readings anywhere from .0023 to .0025 on the mains for clearance. What are people's thoughts on this? Most people recommend .0015-.002 but this is a used block and I will not have it lined bored. Are there clearances acceptable or way to large?
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