Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday September 19, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-05-2014, 01:03 PM   #51
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

I think the dealership put in an 07 STi shortblock when the original owner blew it up @ 30k. Is there any way I can visually verify that it's #3?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by BeastianSTI; 03-05-2014 at 01:11 PM.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:12 PM   #52
Motion Machine
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 383547
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danville Virginia
Default

Look at #5 main, it is machined for the shoulders of the thrust bearing.
Motion Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:15 PM   #53
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
I think the dealership put in an 07 STi shortblock when the original owner blew it up @ 30k. Is there any way I can visually verify that it's #3?
Doesnt matter year. All ej257 blocks are phase 2 which makes it a #3 thrust.
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:16 PM   #54
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion Machine View Post
Look at #5 main, it is machined for the shoulders of the thrust bearing.
But I am wrong lol looked at it again thats def a #5 thrust

Hard to see some of these pics on the stupid app
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:16 PM   #55
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Haha - thanks for the input guys!
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:19 PM   #56
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion Machine View Post
Look at #5 main, it is machined for the shoulders of the thrust bearing.

Wow - I wish I stopped by your machine shop while I was in Danville a bit over a year ago! Was doing some work @ the Commissioner / Treasurers Office - really nice people in Danville. Jimmie Gillie is quite the character - haha.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:36 PM   #57
Justin V
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 98747
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: GA
Vehicle:
07 WRX
WRB

Default

Awesome! Motion Machine is a vendor, I really want them to do my machine work.
Justin V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:43 PM   #58
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin V View Post
Awesome! Motion Machine is a vendor, I really want them to do my machine work.
Whatcha waitin for?
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 01:45 PM   #59
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Looks like they do quite a bit of machining, based on: http://www.motionmachineinc.com/Services.html

It seems like most shops don't do align bores / crank balancing, that i've seen.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 02:05 PM   #60
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Looks like they do quite a bit of machining, based on: http://www.motionmachineinc.com/Services.html

It seems like most shops don't do align bores / crank balancing, that i've seen.
I used Justice Racing for my previous build and they did both for me. IDK if they farmed the crank balancing out or not but I know they do the mains in house or at least they did
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 02:39 PM   #61
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Damn - how much did they charge you for torque plate bore / hone?

I just called Engine Lab here in the Tampa area, and it looks like it's going to be $180 to have the block torque plate bored... That's more than double the price of normal boring from other shops.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 03:31 PM   #62
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Damn - how much did they charge you for torque plate bore / hone?

I just called Engine Lab here in the Tampa area, and it looks like it's going to be $180 to have the block torque plate bored... That's more than double the price of normal boring from other shops.
Idk what they normally charge. They did a whole long block for me since my cams and journals were scored from pickup failure. I towed the car there they yanked the engine, sleeved it, cleaned up the mains, used their spec'd CP pistons manley I beams, king bearings, bore/hone, trued up the bellhousing surface to the centerline, and final cleaning/assembly. I supplied them with new head castings +1mm ferrea valves, ferreas spring/shims/retainers/keepers GSC S1's. They did the all the necessary machine work for the valves, assembled the heads and installed the heads to the block. Finished reassembling the engine (valve covers manifolds etc) installed the engine back into the car. Broke the engine in and I picked the car up about 5 weeks later to the tune of $12,500 (thats including the parts I supplied and all the work and all of the parts they supplied and a new TD04)
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 04:09 PM   #63
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Idk what they normally charge. They did a whole long block for me since my cams and journals were scored from pickup failure. I towed the car there they yanked the engine, sleeved it, cleaned up the mains, used their spec'd CP pistons manley I beams, king bearings, bore/hone, trued up the bellhousing surface to the centerline, and final cleaning/assembly. I supplied them with new head castings +1mm ferrea valves, ferreas spring/shims/retainers/keepers GSC S1's. They did the all the necessary machine work for the valves, assembled the heads and installed the heads to the block. Finished reassembling the engine (valve covers manifolds etc) installed the engine back into the car. Broke the engine in and I picked the car up about 5 weeks later to the tune of $12,500 (thats including the parts I supplied and all the work and all of the parts they supplied and a new TD04)
That's a lot of dough! I'm sure it was well worth having a good shop do it, but damn. If I didn't DIY, I would never be able to afford tweaking my subie lol
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 04:41 PM   #64
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

That's a lot of dough! I'm sure it was well worth having a good shop do it, but damn. If I didn't DIY, I would never be able to afford tweaking my subie lol
Lol yeah it was a nice chunk of change. I DIY as well, but when all of this happened I was still in tech school full time, working full time, and juggling trying to be there for my fiancÚ when her mother passed away, and taking her to the Dr for checkups on our unborn daughter. I was already running on no sleep, so theres no way I wouldve had the time to do it. Hell I had to drink 2-3 pots of coffee a day just to keep moving!
It was nice to be able to drop it off borked and pick it up and go out and drive it like I stole it right away. The only thing I didnt like about the whole deal was feeling like someone was following me on my drive down there with 12.5K cash in the car. I dont think ive ever been more nervous in my life!
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 04:51 PM   #65
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
Lol yeah it was a nice chunk of change. I DIY as well, but when all of this happened I was still in tech school full time, working full time, and juggling trying to be there for my fiancÚ when her mother passed away, and taking her to the Dr for checkups on our unborn daughter. I was already running on no sleep, so theres no way I wouldve had the time to do it. Hell I had to drink 2-3 pots of coffee a day just to keep moving!
It was nice to be able to drop it off borked and pick it up and go out and drive it like I stole it right away. The only thing I didnt like about the whole deal was feeling like someone was following me on my drive down there with 12.5K cash in the car. I dont think ive ever been more nervous in my life!

LOL - yeah that sounds like a good enough reason. I just hope I do it right the first time, and that the machine work is spot on.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 05:18 PM   #66
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

LOL - yeah that sounds like a good enough reason. I just hope I do it right the first time, and that the machine work is spot on.
All I can say is take your time during cleaning and assembly. The excitement of everything finally coming together makes it hard not to rush, and if you are rushing its easy to forget about the attention to detail thats necessary when working with tolerances that are the same thickness of an average human hair (and some tolerances are less than that)
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 05:36 PM   #67
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

That really put it into perspective for me... The average human hair follicle is roughly 100 microns = .003937". The PTW clearance alone is even smaller than that lol!

I'm just going to use a bunch of carb cleaner before putting the case together, and do it in a nice and clean environment. I may actually bring the shortblock into my apartment to ensure there isn't anything in the air.
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 06:03 PM   #68
JonnyV2889
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 197384
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: MWV NH
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Ltd
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
That really put it into perspective for me... The average human hair follicle is roughly 100 microns = .003937". The PTW clearance alone is even smaller than that lol!

I'm just going to use a bunch of carb cleaner before putting the case together, and do it in a nice and clean environment. I may actually bring the shortblock into my apartment to ensure there isn't anything in the air.
Cleaned and calibrated is the name of the game. Have made many parts with .0005" tolerance or less, all it takes is one little chip or some dirt and your screwed.
JonnyV2889 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 07:28 PM   #69
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
That really put it into perspective for me... The average human hair follicle is roughly 100 microns = .003937". The PTW clearance alone is even smaller than that lol!

I'm just going to use a bunch of carb cleaner before putting the case together, and do it in a nice and clean environment. I may actually bring the shortblock into my apartment to ensure there isn't anything in the air.
I wipe the cyl walls down with atf (you can see the crap that comes off even after hot tanking) and put it on the piston skirts before I drop em in. My Machine shop instructor taught me that old trick.

You definitely dont want any dust or dirt floating around. The last thing you want is bearing contamination after you have worked so hard to get this far
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 07:59 PM   #70
Motion Machine
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 383547
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Danville Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Damn - how much did they charge you for torque plate bore / hone?

I just called Engine Lab here in the Tampa area, and it looks like it's going to be $180 to have the block torque plate bored... That's more than double the price of normal boring from other shops.
I get $260 to bore/plate hone/ clean a Subaru. But bear in mind, this is done on a 4 axis CNC with the cases torqued together for the entire process, including honing. I set up off the factory datum and can correct bore locations to the blueprint spec.You cannot access the datum when just clamping the case halves on a mill table or a boring table. I'm not saying you can't do them this way, lots of shops do. But if you want your block blueprinted and have equal deck heights, it must be done on a 4 axis. This video shows the process
Motion Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 08:35 PM   #71
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
I wipe the cyl walls down with atf (you can see the crap that comes off even after hot tanking) and put it on the piston skirts before I drop em in. My Machine shop instructor taught me that old trick.

You definitely dont want any dust or dirt floating around. The last thing you want is bearing contamination after you have worked so hard to get this far
I've heard some say to use engine oil instead of atf. Could the ATF damage the cylinder walls / bore? Why would the say not to use it, I wonder ...
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 09:25 PM   #72
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post

I've heard some say to use engine oil instead of atf. Could the ATF damage the cylinder walls / bore? Why would the say not to use it, I wonder ...
Ive used that trick on the 20 or so engines ive built for myself for friends and for customers at the shop without a failure.
It wont hurt anything. It actually helps the ring seal by helping the seating process along. Never was given a clear explanation as to why but it works! I do it on every build.
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 10:23 PM   #73
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Interesting!

I just sent an e-mail to my local machine shop requesting an itemized invoice for all of the things listed. Hoping I can keep my left leg ;-)
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 10:38 PM   #74
2Fast4U1DAY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 250152
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastianSTI View Post
Interesting!

I just sent an e-mail to my local machine shop requesting an itemized invoice for all of the things listed. Hoping I can keep my left leg ;-)
Ha good luck. I lost an arm a leg and half my left nut on my build by the time I got the 20g, got the fuel system sorted, and a 2 hour tune session. All said and done IIRC I was into it for 15-16k but like I said I didnt really have the time to do the wrenching so I payed ALOT in labor
2Fast4U1DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2014, 10:56 PM   #75
BeastianSTI
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 310506
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2005 WRX STi
Silver, Sexy 'n Raspy

Default

Yeah... Hey - at least you already have a top-feed system. I've gotta source some parts to make it to e85 / ID1300s!
BeastianSTI is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.