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Old 01-15-2014, 10:36 PM   #1
subiefan7162
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Default New Install and Base Map Issue PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

Ok so Im having big problems with my USDM 06 FXT 4EAT, the new stuff I installed and the base map I wrote for this install. before the install I was only running a SPT Short Ram Intake, 3in turbo back exhaust, VF48, STI top mount, Grimmspeed EBCS and an APS BOV. the new install replaced the short ram and the top mount, now my mods list pertaining engine is as follows:
APS 70mm CAI
AP Metal Turbo inlet
3in TBE
VF48 Turbo
Grimmspeed TMIC
Grimmspeed EBCS
Omni 4 Bar MAP Sensor
TGV Deletes
ID1000 Injectors
AP Fuel Rail System
Tomei FPR set to 44psi
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Moroso Air/Oil Separator
Innovate Wideband AFR XD16 Kit
93 OCT US
EVAP solenoid and Secondary Air Pump deleted
All useless CELs disabled

Ok so I did my install and wrote my base map (appearently I'm not allowed to add attachments or I would have included the map at bottom of this post) and the car runs like crap, idles kinda rough especially at a cold start. once the car warms up it still runs lean, like high 17 to 19s AFR, and any attempt at revving is met with lots of break up and stumbling. I've looked around for any leaks and have found none (Fuel, Vacuum, Oil) only think I haven't done yet is a boost leak check but during the install I double and triple checked everything so I'm pretty sure there are no boost leaks. please help me ASAP!!!!!!!! Its very appreciated

here is the link to my Romraider post that includes my map:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=15&t=10278
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:06 PM   #2
bluemax189
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Default

What I would do:
#1 Boost leak test it
#2 Closed loop maf calibration
#3 Open Loop Maf calibration
#4 set tables to be safe, timing low, boost targets low, afr rich etc.
#5 Build your boost tables(td's, wgdc's, boost targets, etc)
#6 Afr tables
#7 timing tables
#8 avcs

Main thing throwing you off is you did a lot at once. Oh damn just saw you did the injectors too. Theyre right up there on the list as well. You'll need a known good maf calibration to get them dialed in correctly. I mean you can do an intake and injectors change at once but it might throw off some other tables.
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:19 AM   #3
subiefan7162
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Ive been seeing a lot of people posting about closed loop and open loop MAF calibration, what do you mean by this? the only MAF table I see that requires calibration and re-scaling is the MAF scaling map in the MAF section, nothing about separate maps for open and closed loop....
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:25 AM   #4
WRXt4cy
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Double post
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:27 AM   #5
WRXt4cy
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Closed loop just means your ECU is watching the front o2 and trimming fuel, open loop means its checking your fuel map and shooting for those targets. You should adjust the closed loop areas (~80 g/s or less) of your MAF scaling so that the ECU isn't having to do much for short or long term trimming and you should adjust the open loop areas using your wideband such that you hit your fuel targets.

I eyeballed your tune and everything seems reasonable as decent starting point based on your mods. I'm guessing you have a vacuum leak so I'd say start there.

What does your AFR correction show at idle? +25%?
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:45 AM   #6
subiefan7162
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I don't have AFR correction selected for logging but the only places I could see having a vacuum leak would be the mounting between the head and tgv delete, mounting between tgv delete and manifold, mounting between ypipe and tmic, but I doubt that as well because they have brand new gaskets at all three locations, so I just need to do a boost/vacuum leak check to find out for sure, then im at a loss for what else could be wrong.
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:49 AM   #7
bswilmington
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321WHP 422WTQ dynojet SAE

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This is what I noticed with fueling system when I looked over your map.
This is major part of your problems I believe is your injector info, maf scaling.
I would try these changes and see if its better, up to you.


For ID1000 I would change what you have there.
I use these. I know your Voltages are different but you can change that column to match these.
Scalar 960
latencys (I think you left yours stock??)
8V---2.60
10---1.68
12---1.24
14---0.99
16---0.81

Take your original Maf scaling and multiply your g/s by 1.16 (70mm intake^2/65mm^2 original maf) = 1.16 This is assuming your original Maf was 65mm as I believe it is. Notice the word original in there, if you changed the scaling any I would start with fresh maf table.




There is other little changes thats probaly needed in there but I think this will get you up and running decent. Your tuner should know what to do for the mods you have. Why didn't you get a shop to supply you with tune if you were unable to just out of curiosity??

Last edited by bswilmington; 01-16-2014 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:53 AM   #8
WRXt4cy
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Yeah, check for leaks first. Your injector latency might be a tad low so if you don't find leaks, try raising that up to see if you fuel correction and AFR levels out. With being as lean as you are (and assuming fuel correction is maxed out and not helping), I think its probably a big leak.
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Old 01-16-2014, 01:27 AM   #9
subiefan7162
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its true I did not change my latencies, I was about to change them to your values listed but I noticed that my voltages read out different, yours read out 8,10,12,14,16 and mine are 6.5, 9, 11.5, 14, 16.5. so can I use the same values or do I need to calculate something else? and as far as getting a tuner, I decided to attempt to do it myself as I successfully wrote my map for the mods before this install and the good tuners are a pain in the ass to find and get your maps done in time, but I may just give up and go to one anyway. Keith at AWDTuning told me it was 200 for 8 maps, to where the tuner I used along time ago only charged 100 for a month of maps, for 8 maps I don't feel that's enough to get the car where it needs to be, to be at its best.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:14 AM   #10
bswilmington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefan7162 View Post
its true I did not change my latencies, I was about to change them to your values listed but I noticed that my voltages read out different, yours read out 8,10,12,14,16 and mine are 6.5, 9, 11.5, 14, 16.5. so can I use the same values or do I need to calculate something else? and as far as getting a tuner, I decided to attempt to do it myself as I successfully wrote my map for the mods before this install and the good tuners are a pain in the ass to find and get your maps done in time, but I may just give up and go to one anyway. Keith at AWDTuning told me it was 200 for 8 maps, to where the tuner I used along time ago only charged 100 for a month of maps, for 8 maps I don't feel that's enough to get the car where it needs to be, to be at its best.
If you use those latency change the voltage side to match the latency. You can change both sides of the table
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:51 PM   #11
subiefan7162
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LOL I feel like an idiot, that worked thanks bswilmington. ok so now that I have redone the injector latencies and the MAF scaling im going to try the new map out and see how it goes
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:20 PM   #12
subiefan7162
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It was a fail. Still runs like crap, I tried rechecking leaks but found nothing. Idk what else to do, I need to do a boost leak check, I just wish I had a better tool to do so.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:32 PM   #13
bluemax189
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definitely need a boost leak test. A local guy here had some injector seals go bad causing a leak, never would have found it out without a boost leak test.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:34 PM   #14
subiefan7162
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so I found an air leak, silicone between the inlet and the turbo wont seal all the way, I just have a hard time understanding how that would make it run lean, unless its causing the MAF to run really low values and lean out the system I guess
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:48 PM   #15
bswilmington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefan7162 View Post
so I found an air leak, silicone between the inlet and the turbo wont seal all the way, I just have a hard time understanding how that would make it run lean, unless its causing the MAF to run really low values and lean out the system I guess
That's it. Instead of air going through maf, it goes unmetered through the leak. So let's say at idle your pulling 5 g/s but maf is only reading 4 g/s then afr would be lean by 20% as ECU think you are moving less air than you really are.
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:41 AM   #16
subiefan7162
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True that thanks bswilmington, hopefully that will solve my problems, then I can get to the fun stuff
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:52 PM   #17
subiefan7162
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Update: so I fixed the coupler, but I'm still having problems, idk what to do at this point
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:00 PM   #18
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefan7162 View Post
Update: so I fixed the coupler, but I'm still having problems, idk what to do at this point
Check in with your tuner. See if he can get you pointed in the right direction or review your tune/logs closer to see if its a tuning issue or a mechanical issue.

Does it drive well enough to get it to him?
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:08 PM   #19
subiefan7162
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I've been writing my own map
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:40 AM   #20
quazimoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefan7162
Ive been seeing a lot of people posting about closed loop and open loop MAF calibration, what do you mean by this? the only MAF table I see that requires calibration and re-scaling is the MAF scaling map in the MAF section, nothing about separate maps for open and closed loop....
Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefan7162 View Post
so I found an air leak, silicone between the inlet and the turbo wont seal all the way, I just have a hard time understanding how that would make it run lean, unless its causing the MAF to run really low values and lean out the system I guess
Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefan7162 View Post
I've been writing my own map
You think thats a good Idea? Did you scale the MAF for the 70mm intake?
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:51 AM   #21
bluemax189
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you need to research some more on closed and open loop tuning. But first you HAVE to verify no leaks. It's no good tuning the maf with a leak. if the below is too much to understand take it to a tuner.

closed loop tuning:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=5404

Open loop tuning:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=33&t=5321
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