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Old 04-02-2014, 02:22 PM   #26
maw230
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Still researching and came across this article: http://m.searchautoparts.com/motorag...es-subaru-4eat

I'm mainly concerned with this section:
" One quick way to determine if there is an external problem causing this complaint is to insert a fuse into an FWD fuse holder. This can be located independently near the firewall or shock tower in the engine compartment or in the fuse box (Figure 10). The independent fuse holder will have a cap with the letters FWD on it (Figure 11). The inside fuse box cover will identify the FWD location as well (Figure 12).

By inserting this fuse, the transfer clutch solenoid is being turned on to release the transfer clutch. If it does release the clutch and the wheel hop condition is alleviated, confirmation is made that an external control problem is the cause, especially if the ABS light is lit (Figure 13). If the problem remains, the solenoid has mechanically failed or the transfer control valve is stuck in the applied position or the clutch pack itself is seized."

I don't know if this is a credible source, but if so then I'm conflicted because the fuse insertion does in fact alleviate the issue. Am I looking at this wrong? :-/
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maw230 View Post
Still researching and came across this article: http://m.searchautoparts.com/motorag...es-subaru-4eat

I'm mainly concerned with this section:
" One quick way to determine if there is an external problem causing this complaint is to insert a fuse into an FWD fuse holder. This can be located independently near the firewall or shock tower in the engine compartment or in the fuse box (Figure 10). The independent fuse holder will have a cap with the letters FWD on it (Figure 11). The inside fuse box cover will identify the FWD location as well (Figure 12).

By inserting this fuse, the transfer clutch solenoid is being turned on to release the transfer clutch. If it does release the clutch and the wheel hop condition is alleviated, confirmation is made that an external control problem is the cause, especially if the ABS light is lit (Figure 13). If the problem remains, the solenoid has mechanically failed or the transfer control valve is stuck in the applied position or the clutch pack itself is seized."

I don't know if this is a credible source, but if so then I'm conflicted because the fuse insertion does in fact alleviate the issue. Am I looking at this wrong? :-/
You are looking at it right.

I will say that I've seen this to be true, but I have seen an exception. The diagnostic path says your problem is not a solenoid if the fuse works.

How do you know the head gaskets are gone?
What's the car doing?
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:41 PM   #28
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$970 for the transfer valve? This thing a plain 4EAT or does it have something fancier?

BTW don't forget that in the later years (04+ on mine) inserting the fuse turns off the solenoid, as at some point they changed the system operation.

Side note-
On my '03 4EAT (outback) the only way to get a solenoid (other than used) is to buy a new transfer valve (about $130).

Last edited by CNY_Dave; 04-02-2014 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:23 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
$970 for the transfer valve? This thing a plain 4EAT or does it have something fancier?

BTW don't forget that in the later years (04+ on mine) inserting the fuse turns off the solenoid, as at some point they changed the system operation.

Side note-
On my '03 4EAT (outback) the only way to get a solenoid (other than used) is to buy a new transfer valve (about $130).
It's an 05 Outback Sport standard 4eat I think.. The paperwork I got from the dealer today says "found failure of transfer solenoid", but the other paperwork they emailed me (I will post later) says the valve body needs to be replaced.
I've decided to do the work myself, but I don't know where to begin.. Possibly with the solenoid?

As far as the head gaskets go the dealer performed a visual inspection to come to that conclusion. When I picked the car up it was half a quart low. Haven't had a chance to get underneath it.

The rumble/shuddering appears worse now than ever and isn't limited to sharp turns only.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
$970 for the transfer valve? This thing a plain 4EAT or does it have something fancier?

BTW don't forget that in the later years (04+ on mine) inserting the fuse turns off the solenoid, as at some point they changed the system operation.

Side note-
On my '03 4EAT (outback) the only way to get a solenoid (other than used) is to buy a new transfer valve (about $130).
When you say "transfer valve" are you referring to what I referenced as the transfer valve body?
Will I be able to simply buy a new or used solenoid and replace?
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:44 PM   #31
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Ok, here is the document I got from the dealer. It outlines all the maintenance they recommend along with pricing. As mentioned previously, the final receipt (not shown here) says "failure of transfer solenoid" while this document recommends replacing the valve body. I wasn't able to attach it directly, so I linked it from google drive.

Please let me know what you guys think. Wish I could trust the dealer to give me an honest answer instead of trying to rob me blind.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Y...it?usp=sharing
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:43 PM   #32
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Wow that's some list.

I'm not saying that all they list is not needed, but its probably more than you need.

Can you look an confirm you are leaking coolant from the heads.

For what they quoted you, you can get a brand new short block and a good working used transmission all installed.

If the head gaskets are gone, then you are on borrowed time.

Look for a good used transmission and be done with it if you don't want to open it up and fix it.

You can always take it somewhere else for a second opinion. Unfortunately you already spent some money for them to look at it.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:26 PM   #33
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I took a look last night and I see quite a bit of oil, but no coolant. The torque bind is first though, because we don't yet have the funds for head gaskets. Certainly won't be having the dealer do that job though.

I guess I will just remove the rear end of the tranny and take a look.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:12 AM   #34
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Well in order to remove the valve body, you will need to drop the pan and remove like ten bolts or so 10mm bolts.


Same concept on a subie transmission.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:38 AM   #35
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Yeah that part didn't seem too bad. But if this problem is rarely due to a valve body and the dealer is just trying to take my money it leads me to believe I should go after the solenoid and /or clutch packs first.
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:10 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maw230 View Post
Yeah that part didn't seem too bad. But if this problem is rarely due to a valve body and the dealer is just trying to take my money it leads me to believe I should go after the solenoid and /or clutch packs first.
In all honesty, I would do the duty c solenoid in the transfer case along with the plate. That just might solve all of your issues with that fix alone. It's cheap and not too hard to do.
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Old 04-12-2014, 09:43 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by maw230 View Post
Good to know. To me the best thing to do is to start digging into the transmission and looking for the problem myself.
Know of any places in particular to find a used valve body?
I don't know what to do about the head gaskets. Can't afford their price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider327 View Post
In all honesty, I would do the duty c solenoid in the transfer case along with the plate. That just might solve all of your issues with that fix alone. It's cheap and not too hard to do.
I think I've decided to start there too. What "plate" are you referring to?
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Old 04-12-2014, 05:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maw230 View Post
I think I've decided to start there too. What "plate" are you referring to?
So you'll need the following parts:

https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31337AA191-2090 (Gasket)
https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31942AA130-2091 (Solenoid)
https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31954AA071-2113 (Plate/Gasket)

These are the items you need to do the complete job. Good Luck
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Old 04-12-2014, 05:59 PM   #39
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I think they are trying to rape you, and charge 900 bucks for a 150 dollar part.
Really, I do, unless that trans has the transfer valve built into the main valve body. Which it doesn't.

BTW the plate is just a flat metal plate with holes drilled in it that goes between the valve and the back case of the trans. No gasket or gasket goop on either side of it.

Make sure you check the screen filter in the passage behind the valve- it looks like a rubber O-ring, it pulls right out.

If you are careful you do not need to pull the pan- Tie a wire or string to the connector before unplugging it.

Please note the parts pics do not show the actual valve, the one they show in all their pics is the old style from before 2000 or so.

Last edited by CNY_Dave; 04-12-2014 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:38 PM   #40
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Hey i'm learning about the trany. Thanks for posting. If your willing to tackle a trany yourself. the head gaskets are a piece of cake. There are lots of posts on this. the main thing is use quality head gaskets, subaru, fel-pro, 6 star only. the MLS design. I'm doing mine now and I'm replacing lots of other stuff and im in it for under $500.
In my opinion, its easyer to pull the motor to replace the head gaskets. While the motor is out it should be easyer to get the trans out, and perform your work. Good luck it looks like your on the right track.
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Old 04-13-2014, 01:35 PM   #41
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A note on terminology- the manual does refer to the bolt-on chunk of aluminum that is the 'transfer valve' as the 'transfer valve body'. I guess the 'transfer valve' itself in the subassembly spec is the actual moving chunk of steel (the spool valve that is controlled by the solenoid, which is really a solenoid valve).

BTW I would love to see a pic of the new or old valve and solenoid, to see if it's the older-style '+12V releases the AWD, 0V locks the AWD) or the newer which functions the opposite way.
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:41 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider327 View Post
So you'll need the following parts:

https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31337AA191-2090 (Gasket)
https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31942AA130-2091 (Solenoid)
https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31954AA071-2113 (Plate/Gasket)

These are the items you need to do the complete job. Good Luck
Would it be smart to grab the clutch packs/plates/whatever as well? https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31523AA410-2027
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:13 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maw230 View Post

Would it be smart to grab the clutch packs/plates/whatever as well? https://subarupartsforyou.com/p/31523AA410-2027
Yes. If its open, do the clutch packs too. The clutch pack is not going to break the bank and its way to easy to put them in.
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:02 AM   #44
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Sounds good. I'll order the parts today. Dave, I will try and get that picture for you.
The guy who said that I should do the head gaskets as well, I just don't have the time right now. Nor do I have a motor lift!

Where are you guys putting your jack stands for this job since it's kind of in the middle?
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:02 PM   #45
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Quote:
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Where are you guys putting your jack stands for this job since it's kind of in the middle?
The pinch welds, at the scissor jack locations.
They won't really be in the way.
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Old 04-27-2014, 05:46 PM   #46
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Update:

I've got the transfer case off (that was a gd nightmare ) and have some questions. First, the part that the clutch plates latch on to (possibly the reduction drive shaft?) has small grooves worn in it from the clutch plates. I read that could be a problem, but I'm not sure. I will link to some pics later.

Next, there doesn't appear to be a transfer duty solenoid anywhere...I'm beginning to wonder if it's located beneath the transmission pan in the valve body? Let me know if this picture works. Or is it behind the 'gear' located in the bottom right of the tranny section still on the car? Looks fun to remove.

I will get some more pics up ASAP as I need help ASAP.

grooves from clutch plates:


where is solenoid!?!?!!?


old clutch packs. they look identical to the new ones...


anyone know which side up this ring goes? i think i have it right, but not sure

Last edited by maw230; 04-28-2014 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:09 AM   #47
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The groves are the main problem. The clutch plates stick in them and even though the pressure releases, the clutch plates don t. Take a file or small grinding disc and file them down. Replace the clutch pack disc, make sure to use the same spacer you remove from the clutch pack. You will need to soak the clutch plates in atf for about 30 minutes before installing them. Also pull the inner drum that is still in the rear of the trans, it will just pop out with a little pressure from a flat head screw driver. and remove the groves from that drum also. The shaft will come out with the inner drum. but it will slide right back in when you reinstall it.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:50 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maw230 View Post
Update:

I've got the transfer case off (that was a gd nightmare ) and have some questions. First, the part that the clutch plates latch on to (possibly the reduction drive shaft?) has small grooves worn in it from the clutch plates. I read that could be a problem, but I'm not sure. I will link to some pics later.

Next, there doesn't appear to be a transfer duty solenoid anywhere...I'm beginning to wonder if it's located beneath the transmission pan in the valve body? Let me know if this picture works. Or is it behind the 'gear' located in the bottom right of the tranny section still on the car? Looks fun to remove.

I will get some more pics up ASAP as I need help ASAP.

grooves from clutch plates:

where is solenoid!?!?!!?

old clutch packs. they look identical to the new ones...

anyone know which side up this ring goes? i think i have it right, but not sure
Pics are not working.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:34 AM   #49
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In the clutch pack there are fiber plates, and metal plates. If you look at the slots the metal plates slide into. you will see little groves cut into the slots. those are not supposed to be there. If you pull the inner cluch drum out of the back of the transmission you will see the same thing there,
The solenoid is right there in the tail, you disconnected the wire harness going to it when you took off the tail housing
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:43 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwbugpilot View Post
In the clutch pack there are fiber plates, and metal plates. If you look at the slots the metal plates slide into. you will see little groves cut into the slots. those are not supposed to be there. If you pull the inner cluch drum out of the back of the transmission you will see the same thing there,
The solenoid is right there in the tail, you disconnected the wire harness going to it when you took off the tail housing
Thanks.
So I should be able to file the grooves down without causing other issues? It seemed like there wasn't a lot of metal there to work with.

As far as the solenoid goes, I will look again. I definitely disconnected a harness before removing the transfer case, so I will look there.

I will get the pics updated tonight.

Thanks again guys.

Edit: will filing them down make it easier to occur again? I never want to open this thing up again if I can avoid it, so would I be better off replacing these parts? Anyone know how much they run or have links?

Last edited by maw230; 04-28-2014 at 01:59 PM.
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