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Old 02-06-2014, 04:01 PM   #1
musicfreak190
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Default Viper 5906v and iDataLink ADS-ALCA

Hey Guys! I have just about had it with the lack of range the factory remote has to unlock the car on the 2013 STi. I am looking into the Viper 5906v and iDataLink ADS-ALCA.

I like Viper systems as I had a 5900 is my old car, but I have no experience with the iDataLink bypass module. Does anyone have any input on what they think of the ADS-ALCA and the GR STi?

From the research I have done so far, it seems that this iDataLink module is the best module out for our cars. I assume I can use the data to data connection between the Viper and Bypass module.

If anyone has nay input that would be awesome.

Thanks!
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:19 PM   #2
thedaddyb
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the ADS modules are a great product. I've been using them at work for years and swear by them. I don't think I have seen a single failure yet. (unlike with the xpresskit DBALL)

Recently there have been some issues with the ADS modules communicating properly with the newest software revision on some Directed brain modules. In this instance some of the data will not properly transmit between the two modules. This is an easy fix and just requires the module to be hardwired.

Also note that you will need two ADS modules if you want transponder over-ride as well as door-lock/convenience features.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by thedaddyb View Post
the ADS modules are a great product. I've been using them at work for years and swear by them. I don't think I have seen a single failure yet. (unlike with the xpresskit DBALL)

Recently there have been some issues with the ADS modules communicating properly with the newest software revision on some Directed brain modules. In this instance some of the data will not properly transmit between the two modules. This is an easy fix and just requires the module to be hardwired.

Also note that you will need two ADS modules if you want transponder over-ride as well as door-lock/convenience features.

I thought that since I am going remote start/alarm system that I will not need the 2 modules because I could wire all the door stuff to the starter and all the data lines for the TB to the idatalink?

I REALLY appreciate the response.. Praying you see this.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:18 PM   #4
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Yes that is correct you will need 2 modules. One for the alarm and one for the starter.. because subaru made it that way. Good thing for you is that your model has a neutral safety (probably because our models have a remote start option from factory) wire that you can just tap into for the remote start! So.. things you'll need.. the alarm/remote start, 2 bypass modules, and a cable to upload the code to your modules. I originally went this route but found it easier to use the dei module. You only need one but you have to sacrifice a key(they aren't cheap).. I used my valet key. I also snapped off the tip of the key where the groves are, so even if they get the key it wont go into the cylinder.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:28 PM   #5
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The OP should be able to hardwire the convenience features insted of using a module for them and only use a module for the immobilizer. Personally I would not use the neutral safety switch for a remote start, do it the correct way and run the remote start in manual mode and arm it when you want to use it, but that's just me.
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by scoobyless View Post
The OP should be able to hardwire the convenience features insted of using a module for them and only use a module for the immobilizer. Personally I would not use the neutral safety switch for a remote start, do it the correct way and run the remote start in manual mode and arm it when you want to use it, but that's just me.
never understood how manual mode worked.. I've tried and doesn't seem to work and it doesn't hurt to have the neutral safety wire. It's there why not use it?
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by musicfreak190 View Post
I thought that since I am going remote start/alarm system that I will not need the 2 modules because I could wire all the door stuff to the starter and all the data lines for the TB to the idatalink?

I REALLY appreciate the response.. Praying you see this.
There are a bunch of different ways that you could go about tackling the wiring. All of the convenience features can be hardwired at the BCM, except for the factory alarm system. That system is controlled by data and can only be controlled through a factory remote or a data module like the ADS piece. Honestly you might not be too worried about the cheesy factory system when you are adding an alarm anyways. You can also bypass the immobilizer with a universal bypass and lose your spare/valet key. These systems are pretty fail safe and will cost a fraction compared to the ADS module.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobyless View Post
The OP should be able to hardwire the convenience features insted of using a module for them and only use a module for the immobilizer. Personally I would not use the neutral safety switch for a remote start, do it the correct way and run the remote start in manual mode and arm it when you want to use it, but that's just me.
Honestly, I despise the manual transmission mode. I hate the procedure and having to remember to do it every time you park the car.
On the other hand, the neutral safety switch is a mechanical switch and can fail. I've probably done 75+ manual transmission Subarus over the years and I have seen one NSS wire that was malfunctioning. (on a stock low mileage STI, no transmission work ever done) That being said, if you want to be 100% sure the car will not start in gear, it is best to go with the manual mode on the remote start system.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:10 PM   #8
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No manual transmission wiring is fail safe. You could forget to roll up your windows one day and someone could put your car in gear and it would start. I personally use the NSS switch wire on almost all Subaru's but I HIGHLY recommend testing it every so often to make sure the switch is working properly. There is one issue with hardwiring all of your convenience features. The factory alarm WILL arm itself if the door is locked with the door still open (ie pressing the lock button on the switch as you exit the car). This will cause the alarm to go off if you then try to enter the vehicle using the Viper remote. There is a way to disarm the factory alarm by triggering both the ignition and the immobilizer bypass to activate at the same time but that can be a PITA. I personally prefer to just use 2 data modules. That way you know you won't have an issue.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:19 PM   #9
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you don't NEED two modules... its just makes it simpler...

you just need one CA and if you were using a compustar you could use a blade ca and then a standalone if you must, other wise you just hardwire it all... no biggie.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:06 PM   #10
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Exactly. For me, the added benefits of the second module (less intrusive on the car, factory alarm control, etc) is worth the cost of the module.... but to each their own. You technically don't need any modules....
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klarowe View Post
No manual transmission wiring is fail safe. You could forget to roll up your windows one day and someone could put your car in gear and it would start. I personally use the NSS switch wire on almost all Subaru's but I HIGHLY recommend testing it every so often to make sure the switch is working properly. There is one issue with hardwiring all of your convenience features. The factory alarm WILL arm itself if the door is locked with the door still open (ie pressing the lock button on the switch as you exit the car). This will cause the alarm to go off if you then try to enter the vehicle using the Viper remote. There is a way to disarm the factory alarm by triggering both the ignition and the immobilizer bypass to activate at the same time but that can be a PITA. I personally prefer to just use 2 data modules. That way you know you won't have an issue.
Or just put the factory alarm into valet mode. It's only a basic door trigger anyways. (unless it has the optional shock sensor)

It's an issue on basic remote starts that most people will purchase. Even with ignition, keysense, and immobilizer the factory alarm will sometimes still honk for a split second before the remote start activates. It would be nice if Subaru had a basic factory alarm disarm wire that could be energized. It really is a flaw in their system that you can't disarm the factory alarm using a key in the door.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:45 PM   #12
musicfreak190
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Wow guys thank you so much for the responses!..

So I am going to do the 2 modules because I have looked at the hard wire diagrams for the convenience features.. and honestly it's not that much wiring.. but why start taping wires you don't need if you can just go through the can data wires.

So that's settled for me.. I don't want to loose a key so I will do the TB and DL modules from idatalink.. and I will hardwire the wires between the remote/starter to the 2 modules instead of using the DBI cable to prevent anything weird (I know DEI is not open source.. so idatalink doesn't exactly 100% support DEI prodcuts through DBI).

I definitely want to use the NSS because the Manual Transmission Mode is kind of annoying.. I understand it is safer as the NSS can in fact fail, but I will be very careful.

I really really appreciate everything.

I have 3 questions left though :/.


1. Where can I find the neutral safety switch. All of the schematics I can find online show no sign of it.

2. Does anyone have any pointers on the Clutch Bypass or is that pretty general?

3. And what order do you guys do the programming first? The Bypass modules or remote starters?

Seriously guys thanks so much.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:57 PM   #13
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you should just do a compustar system that way you don't have 3 boxes under your dash and the need to ground a bunch of wires


and as far as people saying they will be very careful... those are the people who wind up having a car get lurched into a building or something. its a matter of time if you take that approach... all it take is one day when you bump the button in your pocket and the next thing you know you're ****ed. I would highly recommend the reservation mode as its realistically no different then getting out of your car any other day.

Clutch bypass is hooking the negative 2nd start wire to a relay and then tagging the wires of the clutch to the other poles of the relay depending on if its NC or NO.

Doesn't matter as far as programming order. You'll have to KLON the key so just take your time and do it right....

Also.... if this is your first time doing this.... Subaru's are not a good first time car. They are pretty complicated as far as the remote start portion goes for an average joe.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cefaln452 View Post
you should just do a compustar system that way you don't have 3 boxes under your dash and the need to ground a bunch of wires

and as far as people saying they will be very careful... those are the people who wind up having a car get lurched into a building or something. its a matter of time if you take that approach... all it take is one day when you bump the button in your pocket and the next thing you know you're ****ed. I would highly recommend the reservation mode as its realistically no different then getting out of your car any other day.

Clutch bypass is hooking the negative 2nd start wire to a relay and then tagging the wires of the clutch to the other poles of the relay depending on if its NC or NO.

Doesn't matter as far as programming order. You'll have to KLON the key so just take your time and do it right....

Also.... if this is your first time doing this.... Subaru's are not a good first time car. They are pretty complicated as far as the remote start portion goes for an average joe.
I will reconsider the mts mode and do the nss as well.

Hey so yes this is my first time but I am good with electrical. What would you say is the part of the remote starter that is more complicated than usual. I ask because I will focus my next batch of things to research on exactly that. I don't plan on doing this for a few months as i don't want any doubt or confusion.

Btw thanks again for the he input every little tips helps
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:04 PM   #15
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You will have to do more wiring than you think. Even though you can use the module, it doesn't just use the CAN wires. You should look through the ADS install diagrams before making a decision. A remote start should always be installed by a professional. One minor mishap or incorrect connection can cause thousands of dollars in damage... i've seen it in person. If you do decide to do it yourself, make sure you test and retest everything. Don't make ANY assumptions. Get yourself a good DMM and SOLDER EVERY CONNECTION!!!

The Subaru is slightly more complicated because you have 2 additional ignition wires to connect. Most units will only have 1 programmable additional output so you will have to wire up a relay to power the extra ignition wire. You also have quite a few connections to make for the bypasses including cutting some factory wiring. So if you make a bad connection, you will leave yourself stranded. Also, the bypass modules require a dealer account to iDatalink in order to flash the modules. Unless you know someone with access, you will not be able to flash either module.

Long story short, save yourself the hassle and take it to a professional.
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klarowe View Post
You will have to do more wiring than you think. Even though you can use the module, it doesn't just use the CAN wires. You should look through the ADS install diagrams before making a decision. A remote start should always be installed by a professional. One minor mishap or incorrect connection can cause thousands of dollars in damage... i've seen it in person. If you do decide to do it yourself, make sure you test and retest everything. Don't make ANY assumptions. Get yourself a good DMM and SOLDER EVERY CONNECTION!!!

The Subaru is slightly more complicated because you have 2 additional ignition wires to connect. Most units will only have 1 programmable additional output so you will have to wire up a relay to power the extra ignition wire. You also have quite a few connections to make for the bypasses including cutting some factory wiring. So if you make a bad connection, you will leave yourself stranded. Also, the bypass modules require a dealer account to iDatalink in order to flash the modules. Unless you know someone with access, you will not be able to flash either module.

Long story short, save yourself the hassle and take it to a professional.
Yeah I've been doing car audio for years for competitions. I own a dmm and always solder when necessary. I have seen both bypass diagrams and they are easy to follow. How ever the relay for the second ignition i will have it to look into more. There is no doubt in my mind i can do this and i will be doing more going forward not just my car.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:47 PM   #17
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Ok. Theres nothing wrong with going for it, just don't pull the rookie mistake of not testing something. These new cars are very unforgiving if you ground or send 12 volts to the wrong wire. It gets expensive quick.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicfreak190 View Post
Wow guys thank you so much for the responses!..

So I am going to do the 2 modules because I have looked at the hard wire diagrams for the convenience features.. and honestly it's not that much wiring.. but why start taping wires you don't need if you can just go through the can data wires.

So that's settled for me.. I don't want to loose a key so I will do the TB and DL modules from idatalink.. and I will hardwire the wires between the remote/starter to the 2 modules instead of using the DBI cable to prevent anything weird (I know DEI is not open source.. so idatalink doesn't exactly 100% support DEI prodcuts through DBI).

I definitely want to use the NSS because the Manual Transmission Mode is kind of annoying.. I understand it is safer as the NSS can in fact fail, but I will be very careful.

I really really appreciate everything.

I have 3 questions left though :/.


1. Where can I find the neutral safety switch. All of the schematics I can find online show no sign of it.

2. Does anyone have any pointers on the Clutch Bypass or is that pretty general?

3. And what order do you guys do the programming first? The Bypass modules or remote starters?

Seriously guys thanks so much.
1. The NSS is located at the ecu on the passenger side of the car under the carpeting. You will need to remove a metal protective plate to gain access to it. There are pin-out diagrams on this forum that will show you the location of the wire. (also note that it will only test with ignition on in the vehicle)

2. Already been covered, but yes, run a relay from the negative starter on the remote start so when the relay is energized it will connect the wires in the two pin plug. (there are two plugs at the clutch pedal. one for the cruise control cancel switch and one for the clutch safety switch)

3. Programming order doesn't really matter. I will usually program the alarm/remote start last because on most vehicles it will be getting the tach signal from the module.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:48 PM   #19
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Yes.. Thank you guys so much.. When I get home I will look for the nss diagram. As for the secondary ignition wire that eas mentioned above. Would any of you have any further tips on that?
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Also, the bypass modules require a dealer account to iDatalink in order to flash the modules. Unless you know someone with access, you will not be able to flash either module.
Anyone can sign up for an account as a "freelance installer" on the iDatalink website to flash the modules, but you will need to buy their USB cable.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:30 PM   #21
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Oh they must have changed it back. They originally allowed anyone to sign up, but then they changed it to professionals only. So they must have changed back.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:13 PM   #22
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who wants to be a doll and explain to me the "secondary ignition wire"..

Is this something that the bypass modules wire into? Don't recall seeing anything besides just the regular ignition wire on theidatalink module diagrams.

http://diagrams.marktoonen.nl/index....&ModelID=19943

If you look at that schematic you will see there is only 1 ignition wire but 2 starter wires for the 2008 to 2011's..

and on here

http://diagrams.marktoonen.nl/index....&ModelID=20447

it shows 2 ignition wires for 2011-2013's.

I have a 2013 but I want to be sure as the new gen imprezas are considered the 2013 and some sites just ignore the fact that the WRX is still an impreza..

So my real question is which diagram is the right one?
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:01 PM   #23
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Yes, you will have 2 ignition and 2 starter wires. They have absolutely nothing to do with the bypass module. The Viper will have one additional selectable ignition output (pink/white) that you can use for one of the additional ignition wires. You will need to use a relay driven off the appropriate (-) 200mA output to power the other one.

The 2008-2011's did have a similar setup. The only difference is that it was a 2nd accessory wire instead of 2nd ignition. It still required a relay to connect it.

The relay gets connected as follows:
87 - 12v constant (fused)
30 - Additional ignition wire (either 2nd Ignition or 2nd start)
86 - 12v constant (fused)
85 - (-) 200mA output from Viper (either 2nd ignition or 2nd start)
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:04 PM   #24
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The bypass install manual will ONLY show the installation required for the bypass. There are quite a few more connections that will not be covered in the bypass install guide. If you do not have a factory hood pin (most will not), you will also have to install one.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:34 PM   #25
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If I use the NSS can't I just use that instead of the factory hood pin?
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