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Old 02-07-2014, 08:11 PM   #1
emsmap
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Default Building oil pressure with new pump

I am not getting oil pressure in my 2002 WRX. Just dropped my hybrid in that I built. I filled pump with oil, ignition fuse is out and all spark plugs, battery charger on battery, and even took oil gallery plug out. I am cranking 5 second intervals which I have done 10 times in a row. I am not getting even 1 psi of pressure.

I did not pack my pump with Vaseline and I would rather not take my radiator and timing belt back off to do so. What other tips can you all give me? Thanks

EDIT:::::: Thank you to OutFrontMotorsports for posting a video on how they prime the oil pump. Very much appreciated! Scroll to Post #38
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Last edited by emsmap; 02-12-2014 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:49 PM   #2
KillerBMotorsport
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Pull the oil filter and crank for 10 second intervals. This will get oil into the pump the fastest. There's no load on the bearings, so no harm will come to cranking with the plugs out.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:19 PM   #3
emsmap
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Thanks! PS: I have your pickup on so I know that's good! haha
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:21 PM   #4
outfrontmotorsports
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Pull the oil filter and crank for 10 second intervals. This will get oil into the pump the fastest. There's no load on the bearings, so no harm will come to cranking with the plugs out.
I second that but if that doesn't work we had one that would not prime that way either and required to put 5-10 psi of air down the dipstick tube while capping off the crank and valve cover breather holes and crank the motor at the same time

You'll never forget to prime a pump after this experience

Outfront
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post
I second that but if that doesn't work we had one that would not prime that way either and required to put 5-10 psi of air down the dipstick tube while capping off the crank and valve cover breather holes and crank the motor at the same time

You'll never forget to prime a pump after this experience

Outfront
+1 I used the positive pressure in crank and it work very well. You just need to know a bit your venting system to do it properly
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:36 PM   #6
2Fast4U1DAY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outfrontmotorsports View Post

You'll never forget to prime a pump after this experience

Outfront
LMAO. I know I wont after readin some of the horror stories of not being able to get pressure lol
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:53 PM   #7
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You'll never forget to prime a pump after this experience

Outfront
by prime pump do you mean fill it will Vaseline?
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:41 PM   #8
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i cranked my 50 times and got no oil pressure with the fuse out, put it back in and started the car built oil pressure almost immediately, not sure if it was the smartest thing but I think the pump needs more rpms to build pressure
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:18 AM   #9
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short bursts of 5 seconds usually doesn't do it for me. I've always done it by pulling the crank sensor and flooring the gas (to shut off the injectors) and cranking for 20 seconds at a time, wait 10 seconds, repeat 3 or 4 times. Usually by the third or fourth 20 second crank interval I see around 5psi, enough for the idiot light to turn on and I continue doing it for another 2 intervals
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicfire View Post
short bursts of 5 seconds usually doesn't do it for me. I've always done it by pulling the crank sensor and flooring the gas (to shut off the injectors) and cranking for 20 seconds at a time, wait 10 seconds, repeat 3 or 4 times. Usually by the third or fourth 20 second crank interval I see around 5psi, enough for the idiot light to turn on and I continue doing it for another 2 intervals
Let me tell you and the rest here about my experience with priming my rebuilt NA hybrid motor.

First off, unplugging the crank sensor makes it where the ecu is not getting any info from that sensor so the ecu will not issue any spark or fuel so no need need to floor then.

Ok, so I had also used the KillerB pickup tube and 06 sti pan and baffle plate on my engine. Wasn't overkill since I had to get the parts any way. I had put a bit of engine assembly grease in the pump. I turned the engine upside down after sticking the pan and stuff on and took out one of the bottom plugs on the pump. Filled it with oil put the plug back in and then poured oil down the oil galley where the stock oil pressure sensor is. Once full enough. I got everything else ready to go. I left my plugs out along with the crank sensor unplugged. I have a defi racer series oil pressure gauge by the way which was put in the stock sensor location. I put the stock one right in front of the cross over pipe, it barely fit..

My battery was good so I primed the fuel system then went at it. What I got was quite different than what I had been reading The engine turned over soo smooth that I almost couldn't hear it but my friend was standing right there to watch and listen. I believe I cranked the engine for (2) 8-10 second intervals and then I had oil pressure as the idiot light went out and oil pressure was registering somewhere in the 30 to around 40 psi range.

So, all it took was (2) 8-10 second intervals to get oil pressure in my engine.. using a 10w40 dino oil

Remember, for anyone else reading this, unplug the crank sensor, take your plugs out while putting oil carefully down the top oil galley on top of the block under the alternator and then prime it. Should take about a 1/3 of a quart of oil for reference.
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:41 AM   #11
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You need to crank the motor longer (3-4 20 second intervals). I usually roll over any of my fully built motors on the engine stand with the oil filter removed. I use the crank pulley bolt and turn it with a socket wrench (~1 rev per second). Once it starts to dump oil out of the filter hole I stop. Then prime the new filter put it on and roll it over until oil comes out of the turbo line. Install the turbo line on the turbo and you are all set.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:09 AM   #12
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Putting oil into the top gallery is as bad as filling the filter (it's essentially the same thing if gravity has long enough to have its way). That oil has to be pushed out of the way for the pump and system to prime. This takes more effort than just pushing air out of those passages.

Pressurizing the system via air pressure I've never done, but the I'd be concerned with it for a couple reasons. 1) since the sump isn't sealed from the engine it pressurizes everything, both the in and the out. Since the outlets are smaller it should produce some positive pressure, but my gut feeling is that it's marginal at best. I could be wrong. 2) applying pressure can give you a false sense of success since you are applying air pressure, it will register on your gauge as pressure too. Without a decent gauge to determine that there's a positive pressure differential, it could be misleading. For example, if you are relying on the OEM oil light, you'd have a false sense of prime. Outfront is great at posting creative videos, maybe they can post this process showing oil oozing out of the galleries somehow. That would be cool and sure would make me a believer!

If you don't need to prime the turbo, just crank it. The oil pump is horribly inefficient at very low RPMs, which is why spark plug removal helps quite a bit. Starting the car will also push oil in a few seconds vs 40+ seconds. Assuming assembly lube on everything, it should be fine, the wild car is always the turbo :/
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:30 AM   #13
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On the builds I've done it usually won't show any pressure on a gauge. What I like to do is pull the oil line off the turbo and crank the engine until I get oil out of there. Since that is essentially the last component that sees oil pressure you know you are primed.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:34 AM   #14
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Thank ya all! I'm going to take filter off this evening and crank. If I get nothing. I will be starting the car. Will let u know what happens. Fingers crossed
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Putting oil into the top gallery is as bad as filling the filter (it's essentially the same thing if gravity has long enough to have its way). That oil has to be pushed out of the way for the pump and system to prime. This takes more effort than just pushing air out of those passages.

Pressurizing the system via air pressure I've never done, but the I'd be concerned with it for a couple reasons. 1) since the sump isn't sealed from the engine it pressurizes everything, both the in and the out. Since the outlets are smaller it should produce some positive pressure, but my gut feeling is that it's marginal at best. I could be wrong. 2) applying pressure can give you a false sense of success since you are applying air pressure, it will register on your gauge as pressure too. Without a decent gauge to determine that there's a positive pressure differential, it could be misleading. For example, if you are relying on the OEM oil light, you'd have a false sense of prime. Outfront is great at posting creative videos, maybe they can post this process showing oil oozing out of the galleries somehow. That would be cool and sure would make me a believer!

If you don't need to prime the turbo, just crank it. The oil pump is horribly inefficient at very low RPMs, which is why spark plug removal helps quite a bit. Starting the car will also push oil in a few seconds vs 40+ seconds. Assuming assembly lube on everything, it should be fine, the wild car is always the turbo :/
A bit more info about this technique from an old post I did 4 years ago, from what I remember I was able to get 75psi with the starter and I kept that 75psi even after removing the air pressure from the crank. Back then I used 40psi, which is probably too much I would try with 15-20:

Found this out tonight. Very easy, we'll get you oil pressure on starter in less than 5 sec. Got oil light off in 2 sec. and 75 psi after 10 sec on starter!

Make sure your spark plug are off, it is easier on your starter and your engine will spin faster.

Then let's build pressure in the crank case to help the oil pump. You need to know your crankcase ventilation system, but that's pretty easy with the help of someone. In my case I had hoses for my catch can, I simply capped the head breather (at intercooler) and then plug the crank breather to the air compressor at 20 psi. Pushed a bit of air in the crank and made sure there was no leak. Then I started the car while my father was pushing air in the crank, it took 2 sec to get the oil light and about 10 sec to get 75 psi.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:43 AM   #16
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But I also just realize that you are right about building pressure on both side in the internal of the case, I'm puzzled, not sure why it worked... I will try again when I start my new build in a few weeks and report back.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:49 AM   #17
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Anyone use an oil primer for our cars? Thinking of getting one
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Putting oil into the top gallery is as bad as filling the filter (it's essentially the same thing if gravity has long enough to have its way). That oil has to be pushed out of the way for the pump and system to prime. This takes more effort than just pushing air out of those passages.

Pressurizing the system via air pressure I've never done, but the I'd be concerned with it for a couple reasons. 1) since the sump isn't sealed from the engine it pressurizes everything, both the in and the out. Since the outlets are smaller it should produce some positive pressure, but my gut feeling is that it's marginal at best. I could be wrong. 2) applying pressure can give you a false sense of success since you are applying air pressure, it will register on your gauge as pressure too. Without a decent gauge to determine that there's a positive pressure differential, it could be misleading. For example, if you are relying on the OEM oil light, you'd have a false sense of prime. Outfront is great at posting creative videos, maybe they can post this process showing oil oozing out of the galleries somehow. That would be cool and sure would make me a believer!

If you don't need to prime the turbo, just crank it. The oil pump is horribly inefficient at very low RPMs, which is why spark plug removal helps quite a bit. Starting the car will also push oil in a few seconds vs 40+ seconds. Assuming assembly lube on everything, it should be fine, the wild car is always the turbo :/
After thinking this through a bit more, I do understand what you are saying. However, can you explain why I got oil pressure so fast compared to anyone else here? I did forget to add that I also filled the oil filter before screwing it on but from what you said it doesn't do anything in regards to priming the oiling system. I also push removing the spark plugs for the reason of no compression and much easier time on the starter cranking the engine over faster.

Last edited by subi400; 02-08-2014 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:19 PM   #19
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Got pressure this evening. Did three 15 second cranks and it started pouring out oil pressure line. Good stuff
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:36 AM   #20
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+1 for removing the oil filter and cranking until oil pours out.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:45 PM   #21
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Cranking with the filter off seems counterproductive to me. With no filter your only priming the pickup tube and pump. Meanwhile your using up the assembly lube. Put everything together lines and all. Start it and let it idle. You should have assembly lube everywhere anyway. Everytime you change the oil the engine starts with no pressure and only normal oil film on the bearings. Unless your going through the same process pulling plugs everytime you change the oil it seems to me your overthinking it
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:19 PM   #22
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This is for those priming a new engine where the cams need to be primed before startup or with a new turbo installed that needs oil BEFORE being spun up. It takes the longest to prime the pump and removing the filter removes a major restriction after the pump allowing it to prime faster. Once oil is sucked into the pump it happens extremely quickly.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:55 PM   #23
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So once you oil at the filter bung, should you install the filter empty? Or filled with oil?
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:58 PM   #24
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Bump, any special trick to help prime an external oil cooler?
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Old 02-11-2014, 01:07 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Pressurizing the system via air pressure I've never done, but the I'd be concerned with it for a couple reasons. 1) since the sump isn't sealed from the engine it pressurizes everything, both the in and the out. Since the outlets are smaller it should produce some positive pressure, but my gut feeling is that it's marginal at best. I could be wrong. 2) applying pressure can give you a false sense of success since you are applying air pressure, it will register on your gauge as pressure too. Without a decent gauge to determine that there's a positive pressure differential, it could be misleading. For example, if you are relying on the OEM oil light, you'd have a false sense of prime. Outfront is great at posting creative videos, maybe they can post this process showing oil oozing out of the galleries somehow. That would be cool and sure would make me a believer!

:/
'

No creative way to do a video however, pressurizing the crankcase is very effective. you're thinking too hard about pressure on the ins and the outs. to have air go past bearings and crank journals with .001-.002" with assembly lube isn't anything compared to 5psi of crankcase pressure pushing oil up an open 3/4" tube. this way will always work and work fast. 40 psi is way too high and could lead to blowing seals out.
Outfront
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