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Old 10-19-2002, 02:41 PM   #1
Maniac
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Question 22mm Rear Swaybar and Solid Aluminum Links

Hey, everybody!

I have a bone-stock MY02 WRX sedan. I want your opinion on rear swaybar / link replacement.

Currently I have the stock 20mm rear sway and nylon links. I read that a beefier rear sway and stiffer aluminum links will reduce body roll and help eliminate understeer.

I mostly drive in the city / on highway. I do not intend to offroad, but will go on the track.

If all else is stock in my suspension, do you recommend messing with the rear sway. And if so, what is a good size to get (22mm?). Should I get an adjustable one, and in what range.

Right now I got my eye on a fixed 22mm Whiteline or an adjustable Whiteline 22-24-26 bar and some Kartboy style solid alum. links.

What do you guys recommend? Need your help!
Thanks!
Maniac
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Old 10-19-2002, 04:13 PM   #2
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anybody?
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Old 10-19-2002, 04:33 PM   #3
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The first thing I'd recommend getting is a copy of MRT's book, "Training WRX". They have tons of time-tested advice about how to improve the performance of our cars, and present all of it in a step-by-step fashion, going from the simple mods to the more crazy upgrades.

That said, a larger swaybar and the solid endlinks will probably help you to sitffen up the rear of the car, giving you more of a neutral handling suspension. 22mm seems to be a popular choice for the rear bar upgrades.

I haven't replaced my swaybar yet, but I do have some solid endlinks that I got from Primitive Racing, and they're pretty tough.
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Old 10-19-2002, 09:19 PM   #4
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My setup is DMS40(w/regrets), 22mm fr/ 24mm rr non adj sway bar, WL front enlink, and stock rear endlink....

The handling is neutral...I may have a slight understeer as I enter the corner but I come out of the corner neutral or with a mild over which ever I choose. I haven't had the rear swing around yet .... X-my fingers....

You mentioned that you have a stock setup so I would just do the endlinks first (fr and rr) and see how you like it. Do you have a wagon? If so, you can find a sedan bar cheaply and start there first. Oh...before I forget, get some better tires. As for me I am partial to RE92's. They are fun to slide around.

good luck...BlueMax
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Old 10-19-2002, 10:05 PM   #5
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I'd say buy better tires first, and if your going to be doing track time (like you said), you'll need better brake pads.

I'd rather be able to control my deceleration than my handling in the corners.......although having both is better.

As for the bars n stuff, I'd go with the adjustable rear with endlinks. I'm a bit biased towards the adj. one because I like the idea of being able to play with the settings till you find one that's just right for you.

Happy motoring.
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Old 10-19-2002, 11:50 PM   #6
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I would definitely recommend either a cusco or whiteline adjustable rear sway bar (I've heard complaints about the whiteline bushings though) and the MRT aluminum links. That's exactly what I have on a basically stock car and I love it.
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Old 10-19-2002, 11:58 PM   #7
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I've been to the track only once so far, to Watkins Glen. This is what I have realized.

If your primary concern is track and spirited street, I'd recommend first changing your tyres. The stocks one are really NOT worth much. A set of sticky tyres will do wonders.

A larger sway bar will reduce understeer/plowing.

A set of beefy endlinks will give you crisper response. I have the Kartboy set, and I strongly recommend them

Hope this helps.

- Gil

Last edited by Gil; 10-28-2002 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 10-20-2002, 12:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluemax
My setup is DMS40(w/regrets),
Just curious, why with regreat?

I was looking to get 50mm DMS in the near future, and would like feedback if possible
thanks


p-rex
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Old 10-20-2002, 12:12 AM   #9
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Yes a adjustable sway bar and KB endlinks or MRT endlinks are a great MOD!!!!!

ive got the Cusco adjustable and KB endlinks....
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Old 10-20-2002, 12:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnySubaru
or whiteline adjustable rear sway bar (I've heard complaints about the whiteline bushings though)
Just curious (since I have whiteline bushings and bars) what have you heard about in the complaint department?
thanks

p-rex
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Old 10-20-2002, 01:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: 22mm Rear Swaybar and Solid Aluminum Links

Quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
Currently I have the stock 20mm rear sway and nylon links. I read that a beefier rear sway and stiffer aluminum links will reduce body roll and help eliminate understeer.

I mostly drive in the city / on highway. I do not intend to offroad, but will go on the track.
Doing this by itself (22mm bar and solid links) will also make your car tail-happy and unstable. Making you more liable to drive your car backwards into a rail on the highway.

Remember once you spin past 60 degrees, you are just a passenger.

A better approach is to get better tires, agressive alignment, stiffer/lower suspension with upgraded sway bars front and rear.
And advanced driving lessson never hurt either. You also want to get used to any new changes to the suspension on closed/quiet areas before driving on public roads. You don't want your car to surprise you during an emergency manuver.
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Old 10-20-2002, 02:35 AM   #12
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whats up Bro?

FWIW, SCC has a Progress 22mm Rear Sway bar and they reported getting smoked on the track because the car was very tail happy. (this was by a Lancer EVO VII, though) But the "tail happy" part doesnt sound too ideal for handling... great for drifting though!
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Old 10-20-2002, 11:51 AM   #13
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Angry

"Doing this by itself (22mm bar and solid links) will also make your car tail-happy and unstable. Making you more liable to drive your car backwards into a rail on the highway."


BULL****
I have completely stock suspension and a whiteline adjustable rear bar with whiteline endlinks. The car STILL understeers, but not nearly as bad as stock, its almost neutral, but with a slight understeering tendancy.
I have it set on the middle setting(22mm).
It has made a 100% improvement on the car. Ask TetsuoMX, he is an autocross instructor and got a chance to drive my car. The car will spin easier than stock IF YOU GO NUTS with the gas pedal. Under normal to agressive situations the car is very well balanced. All a rear bar will do is dial out some of the understeer the factory intentionaly designs into the car. I have to ask, have you even ever driven a WRX with a rear bar/links only? I would bet on not.


Yes do tires YES get a real alignment.
And YES do the rear bar/endlinks


Oh and OF COURSE the lancer smoked them on the track, it has a 50+ hp advantage

Last edited by Davenow; 10-20-2002 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 10-20-2002, 05:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Davenow

Oh and OF COURSE the lancer smoked them on the track, it has a 50+ hp advantage [/b]
Well the handling characteristics of both cars were WAY different! The LanEVO awarded the driver when driven with the perfect line, whereas their WRX with a Progress 22mm rear sway bar was said to go sliding all over the place. Maybe they had it on a more extreme setting than you, causing the major oversteer.

Stiffer rear = less understeer or even oversteer.

I believe there are 3 different settings, right? So, either its the different brands having different performance characteristics with the same sized bar, OR its just the different settings. (I dont have one, so help me out here)

Dave is set on the middle and has slight understeer, almost neutral handling with a stock WRX.

SCC's tail happy WRX would be set on the end hole or the inner hole?

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Old 10-20-2002, 09:00 PM   #15
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SCC had there's set at 24.
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Old 10-20-2002, 10:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Davenow
"Doing this by itself (22mm bar and solid links) will also make your car tail-happy and unstable. Making you more liable to drive your car backwards into a rail on the highway."

BULL****
I have completely stock suspension and a whiteline adjustable rear bar with whiteline endlinks. The car STILL understeers, but not nearly as bad as stock, its almost neutral, but with a slight understeering tendancy.
Whatever. I have seen Subarus (98 RS's to 02 WRXs) plow into walls both experienced and inexperienced drivers. In each case the chasis was upset in some way either bad traction conditions or bumps and dips that caused the rear end to step out. And as I mentioned, once the car skids past 60 degrees to your line of movement, you are just a passenger and can just hang on and pray. In every case, there was a larger rear sway bar involved.

Yes, a larger rear swaybar on the Subarus feels awesome in the dry, but under transient conditions handling will change.

Also note that the rear sway bar does not really affect understeer. The job of the rear sway bar is to affect the rear tires and the delay in which the rear tires lean over to the point they lose traction and gets the rear end to rotate or step out. The front sway bar, caster and camber are the elements which determine the level of front understeer.

And for the record, I have gone through the STI V5 suspension on my car as well as DMS 40mm Golds and am now awaiting a third suspension set. I too have the Whiteline adjustable rear sway bar and have front and rear endlinks. I was involved with the original set of solid endlinks which are probably very similar to the Karboy solid endlinks. I am on a first name basis with everyone at my alignment shop and have run as much as 2.5 degrees of negative camber with 2 degrees of castor on my front tires and as little as 0 degrees of camber on the rear tires.

I have nothing against modifying the suspension and tweeking the car. Just be aware and be careful.
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Old 10-20-2002, 11:15 PM   #17
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Thanks for everyone's feedback. It looks like a 22mm bar is the max for the rear to get the car closer to neutral, all else being stock.

Actually, according to my quick calcs, a 22mm bar is roughly one and a half times more torsionaly rigid than the stock 20mm. I can see how a 24mm would make the car tail happy. A 24 mm bar is twice as rigid as the stock 20mm.

Does anybody have any comments on body roll reduction with a stiffer rear swaybar?

Hey, Huy!

Nice to hear from you! Did I miss the October HB meet?

Maniac
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Old 10-21-2002, 12:23 AM   #18
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I've got a 20mm swaybar (from the sedan) and solid endlinks- big improvement. My friend's GC8 with a 22mm bar and stock links is getting the solid ones soon too- the factory links on his car are seriously tweaked. If anyone is really interested, I know where to get the endlinks pretty cheap -Bolster
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Old 10-21-2002, 12:40 AM   #19
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i am and will they work with an 02 OBS
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Old 10-21-2002, 12:56 PM   #20
kenchan
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manic- yah, definitely less roll after the rear swaybar and vivid endlinks. it made so much improvement it even lessen tire squeal from the front tires on a fast corner. the anti-roll feels kinda exponential...meaning, you're probably feeling the endlinks work first initially, but then as you turn into the corner, the roll gets stiffer and stiffer to a very balanced lean. the car is very predictable.

im using the 22mm setting on the whitelines (rear bar only).
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Old 10-21-2002, 05:49 PM   #21
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Default Adjustable rear sway bar. 20mm vs 22mm

I have adjustable MRT rear swaybar, end links, and MRT springs.

I've had this setup for about 5 months already. The front is stock at 20mm and the rear at 22mm. This past weekend I switched it to 20mm to feel the differences.

Both have thier advantages and disadvantages.

With the 22mm sway bar short turns, cornering is firm. However the disadvantage I feel with 22m is canyon driving. Long sweeps etc. With 22mm it is not easy to keep a consistant line on a sweeper. I have to keep re-adjusting the steer to stay in line. The end result of the turn is that the turn was not executed smoothly. The rear turns in differently. When I switch to 20mm the turning is much more consistant. I dont need to re-adjust stear as I'm in the turn keeping a smooth curved line. I feel better with the 20 mm.

I would not recommend buying a rear swaybar. The only good reason to have it is the adjustability. I would install endlinks on the stock rear swaybar.
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Old 10-22-2002, 07:59 AM   #22
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how much are the KB endlinks. also do you think it would still be unnecessary to replace swaybay in an 02 OBS
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Old 10-23-2002, 10:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
P-Rex
I was looking to get 50mm DMS in the near future, and would like feedback if possible
I think you're fine with the DMS50's. The DMS40 are the ones with the issues of poor quality and development...rust, clunking, sticky struts, bouciness..all the costs going back to the original owner...DMS won't stand behind their product..etc... If you do a search, you'll probably find out that I'm not the only one with these problems. My next suspension will not be with DMS. I had made my peace with them so I'll just end it here.

Happy Motoring..BlueMax
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