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Old 04-19-2014, 05:38 PM   #26
Ultimateone
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Originally Posted by Celery GT-5 View Post
According to the mag tests they are slower than the gr's. Might be faster from a roll due to gearing
Yeah that and the dynos that are coming in from the Proven power forum are showing such earlier spool as well, awesome stuff.
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:04 PM   #27
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yeah it definitely spools earlier
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:03 PM   #28
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Anyone put 05+ STi bbs wheels on here yet for fitment? Looking to grab a pair for winter while Im waiting for the car but would suck if the center hubs did not fit... but I've seen later STi wheels going on the 15s. So I'm sure they should fit.
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:08 PM   #29
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they should fit

I might get some for summer and use the stocks for winter. The BBS's are 17 lbs

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Old 04-19-2014, 10:10 PM   #30
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we should make a new website for the new motor !!!
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:30 AM   #31
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^ Then you will have eliminated 90% of why I come to this site. I'll come and ask questions on occasion when I have a project, but that's it. I'll be less informed when my car does arrive and I'll feel less connected to this site. Maybe that's the way NASIOC is supposed to be and, if so, then that's cool and I'll just visit a lot less.

@Hinshaw: re-read my post. I said I could go to the technical forums for technical questions; I did not, however, see a place to discuss issues about the CVT, ordering/waiting, or just trading new info about the car. Hondaslayer himself noted in another post that the CVT questions didn't really have a proper home.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I am just a bit surprised. Most sites try to increase traffic; you guys are trying to reduce it. While killing threads full of enthusiastic newbies may increase signal-to-noise, it's a stern approach to growing an enthusiast community.
What the heck are you talking about? There is a transmission technical forum.

Are you advocating there should be a separate sub-forum for every trans Subaru makes?

Post in the transmission forum if you have a transmission question. Jesus.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:46 AM   #32
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blockwise: they're similar to the EJ engines, except the cylinder liners are much thicker, all open deck.

the heads are completely different, using roller rocker design now, separate cam carrier/case which is replaceable without a new head. Which can be really nice if a cam gets wiped out or something.

Dual timing chains, 14mm oil pump, water pump is belt driven and replaceable without having to tear into timing cover.

some basics
Dual AVCS?
Mitsu turbo?
Twinscroll?
Scavenging pump for the low-mount, or is that some kind of a feature that the 14mm pump helps with, justifying its size?
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:50 AM   #33
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Yep it's Dual AVCS,

apparently it uses some sort of Garrett Twinscroll turbo now.

Scavenge pump is mounted to the back of the passenger side cylinder head, the turbo oil drains into a tank mounted to the bottom of the turbo then is pumped back into the engine
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Old 04-20-2014, 10:57 AM   #34
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Dual AVCS?
Mitsu turbo?
Twinscroll?
Scavenging pump for the low-mount, or is that some kind of a feature that the 14mm pump helps with, justifying its size?
dry sump oil return.

yea its a honeywell twin scroll..... turbo is so small at redline its only at 7psi on my friends wrx @6700

some people say that the wrx makes 22psi stock too. i know of 2 people who have boost spikes over 20psi..... the turbo drops so hard up top it seems too small.


i hope this turbo isnt as small as a td04...... putting aftermarket parts on that for the lil hp gain imo isnt worth the trouble.

2015 wrx needs bigger turboz for moar powa
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Old 04-20-2014, 12:14 PM   #35
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dry sump oil return.

yea its a honeywell twin scroll..... turbo is so small at redline its only at 7psi on my friends wrx @6700

some people say that the wrx makes 22psi stock too. i know of 2 people who have boost spikes over 20psi..... the turbo drops so hard up top it seems too small.


i hope this turbo isnt as small as a td04...... putting aftermarket parts on that for the lil hp gain imo isnt worth the trouble.

2015 wrx needs bigger turboz for moar powa
You can find compressor maps online for the GT2259 that's on the 2015 WRX so that should give us some idea of what it's capable of. I've been hoping an expert would chime in with some analysis on what we can expect from this turbo. Looking online it looks like the GT2259 is mostly used on diesel engines?

I did some math using the compressor map for the GT2259. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the stock turbo won't break 400CFM? This puts it more inline with the TD04-13T than the VF39 (450CFM). The big difference is it looks like the GT2259 flow maxs out around 23PSI where as the 13T would choke around 15PSI. I was hoping for something bigger on the 2015 wrx, but it will be interesting to see what it can do!
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:07 PM   #36
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You can find compressor maps online for the GT2259 that's on the 2015 WRX so that should give us some idea of what it's capable of. I've been hoping an expert would chime in with some analysis on what we can expect from this turbo. Looking online it looks like the GT2259 is mostly used on diesel engines?

I did some math using the compressor map for the GT2259. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the stock turbo won't break 400CFM? This puts it more inline with the TD04-13T than the VF39 (450CFM). The big difference is it looks like the GT2259 flow maxs out around 23PSI where as the 13T would choke around 15PSI. I was hoping for something bigger on the 2015 wrx, but it will be interesting to see what it can do!

im not sure that the 2015 wrx turbo is the gt2259.... if it is its super tiny. plus people run 22psi on a stock 2015 wrx... so its coming from the factory maxed out........ not good for subaru scene but good for a stock car i guess. i guess your using all the turbo if its maxed out.....

http://www.turbozentrum.de/tpl/downl...9_452214_3.pdf

if i do my math right that turbo smokes out at around 270bhp
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:56 PM   #37
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What is the source for this GT2259 claim? Its max flow as listed is less than 220 grams/sec at the choke line. It's likely that the actual wheels are not publicly available on the aftermarket, not in the way you're used to. You gotta trust me on this... Honeywell has entire families of compressor wheels for OEM use that you've never heard of.

Notice how that lists the GT2259 as oil cooled center housing? Obviously the FA20DIT is water cooled. Also, look at the max compressor speed on the choke line. It's about 160k... I bet the real max speed on the real turbo is closer to 200k. Honeywell sets nominal limits on compressor rpm based on max wheel tip speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toys-N-Joys View Post
yea its a honeywell twin scroll..... turbo is so small at redline its only at 7psi on my friends wrx @6700
I've already talked about this in the News & Rumors thread on dyno results for the engine. You are using a Port Fuel Injection mentality. You are thinking that if the boost is dropping, it must be a small turbo running out of breath. The engine is past peak power at redline for one thing. And while the "it's small and it runs out of breath" is certainly possible, the low boost more likely reflects the fact that the combustion and gas exchange is much more efficient than an EJ and very little boost is required.

As I have already discussed in that other thread, just because it spools fast doesn't mean it's small. On a DI engine the AVCS can be used much more aggressively for scavenging to spool the turbo. In this operation, intake pressure exceeds exhaust pressure during overlap. Air blows right through the combustion chamber, out the exhaust valve to spool the turbo without being trapped inside the chamber. PFI engines don't use much scavenging because they spray fuel on the back of the valves. That fuel gets thrown out the exhaust valve during overlap, causing unacceptable HC emissions on a stock engine.

Those internet rules of thumb for calculating power from airflow on a boosted engine don't work so well on DI engines. That's because the brake specific air consumption of a DI engine with intake and exhaust AVCS is typically lower. This is because the cams can be phased for better trapped mass at high speeds, and because the combustion can be advanced much more due to the knock relief.

Basically, turbo DI engines with dual AVCS make more power and better spool because they don't have to throw as much air at it to make the engine output. If the engine ran a lot of boost, that would actually be bad sign... lots of trapped residual gas, high pumping work, end gases prone to knock, or very long duration cams meant for Miller cycle operation.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:32 AM   #38
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What is the source for this GT2259 claim? Its max flow as listed is less than 220 grams/sec at the choke line. It's likely that the actual wheels are not publicly available on the aftermarket, not in the way you're used to. You gotta trust me on this... Honeywell has entire families of compressor wheels for OEM use that you've never heard of.

Notice how that lists the GT2259 as oil cooled center housing? Obviously the FA20DIT is water cooled. Also, look at the max compressor speed on the choke line. It's about 160k... I bet the real max speed on the real turbo is closer to 200k. Honeywell sets nominal limits on compressor rpm based on max wheel tip speed.
I saw this thread about a week ago with someone making the claim of a GT2259 (rexworx's post):

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2613849&page=9

I hope it isn't a GT2259 either. Does anyone know what turbo the newer JDM legacy's are using? I know they have an FA20DIT, but are rated at 296hp. Would be nice if the WRX was using the same turbo.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:44 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
1.What is the source for this GT2259 claim? Its max flow as listed is less than 220 grams/sec at the choke line. It's likely that the actual wheels are not publicly available on the aftermarket, not in the way you're used to. You gotta trust me on this... Honeywell has entire families of compressor wheels for OEM use that you've never heard of.

2. Notice how that lists the GT2259 as oil cooled center housing? Obviously the FA20DIT is water cooled. Also, look at the max compressor speed on the choke line. It's about 160k... I bet the real max speed on the real turbo is closer to 200k. Honeywell sets nominal limits on compressor rpm based on max wheel tip speed.



3. I've already talked about this in the News & Rumors thread on dyno results for the engine. You are using a Port Fuel Injection mentality. You are thinking that if the boost is dropping, it must be a small turbo running out of breath. The engine is past peak power at redline for one thing. And while the "it's small and it runs out of breath" is certainly possible, the low boost more likely reflects the fact that the combustion and gas exchange is much more efficient than an EJ and very little boost is required.

4. As I have already discussed in that other thread, just because it spools fast doesn't mean it's small. On a DI engine the AVCS can be used much more aggressively for scavenging to spool the turbo. In this operation, intake pressure exceeds exhaust pressure during overlap. Air blows right through the combustion chamber, out the exhaust valve to spool the turbo without being trapped inside the chamber. PFI engines don't use much scavenging because they spray fuel on the back of the valves. That fuel gets thrown out the exhaust valve during overlap, causing unacceptable HC emissions on a stock engine.

5. Those internet rules of thumb for calculating power from airflow on a boosted engine don't work so well on DI engines. That's because the brake specific air consumption of a DI engine with intake and exhaust AVCS is typically lower. This is because the cams can be phased for better trapped mass at high speeds, and because the combustion can be advanced much more due to the knock relief.

Basically, turbo DI engines with dual AVCS make more power and better spool because they don't have to throw as much air at it to make the engine output. If the engine ran a lot of boost, that would actually be bad sign... lots of trapped residual gas, high pumping work, end gases prone to knock, or very long duration cams meant for Miller cycle operation.

1. so i guess i know a guy who works at honey well...... its a MGT2259S he told me personally to look up the 2. gt2259 charts. flows similar but the subaru turbo has some new designs, twin scroll, 60 a/r...... still uses the same gt2259 wheels or atleast i was told that. so i would think it flows similar.


3. turbo is small and it runs out of breath in upper rpm........


4. how much rpm does tuning avcs affect the spool? let me guess you can spool a huge turbo super hella flush at 1000rpm? avcs is emmissions.

2 strokes make way more hydro carbons than a ej subaru


5. these stock 2015 wrx's push 22psi stock no mods.... thats pretty high for stock... and i see how pushing the tubro from the factory can make a engine look better than it really is.

throw that turbo on a ej platform and i bet it spools faster than the previous wrx turbos. doesnt mean the di engine, dual avcs, or fa plaform is doing it...

this turbo shouldnt make much more power if you push more boost..... safley. but in stock form unmodified its a nice dd fast spool turbo. i would guess that intake, and a dp with re tune would add maybe 20whp maybe alot of torque... a ewg or a turbo swap will be the best mod on these 2015 wrx's/ i want to see a td05 20g on that engine.


i still perfer a old subaru chassis, sti 6spd, 20g, ewg dumping hydro carbons to the atmosphere..... i like learning new tech and moding cars... i hope my posts help people too.



http://garrettbulletin.com/products/...rester-legacy#


im not a turbo expert... but a regular guy like you. pitman on unysoc and a few other forums.

Last edited by Toys-N-Joys; 04-21-2014 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:00 AM   #40
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thats a awesome looking 2015. the gold bbs will never go old.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:04 AM   #41
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It's not a real pic but yeah

The unsprung weight redux can't hurt either
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:09 AM   #42
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It's not a real pic but yeah

The unsprung weight redux can't hurt either
awesome edit skills then. i guess i dont have a good eye for spotting photo chops.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:15 AM   #43
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Yeah it's pretty easy to do a side profile wheel chop
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:13 AM   #44
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1. so i guess i know a guy who works at honey well...... its a MGT2259S he told me personally to look up the 2. gt2259 charts. flows similar but the subaru turbo has some new designs, twin scroll, 60 a/r...... still uses the same gt2259 wheels or atleast i was told that. so i would think it flows similar.

.
Sleeve bearings? Steel alloy turbine and shaft?
Since someone mentioned it's a for-diesel turbo, it doesn't have spool additive mechanisms like variable vane, right?

Can someone post a photo of the turbo-manifold assembly?

This may make a great platform to retrofit the EJ to low mount, then change the turbo.
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:50 AM   #45
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There are already low mount designed setups on the aftermarket scene for us GD+ guys.

2015 WRX
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:04 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by carnz-pj-410 View Post
blockwise: they're similar to the EJ engines, except the cylinder liners are much thicker, all open deck.

the heads are completely different, using roller rocker design now, separate cam carrier/case which is replaceable without a new head. Which can be really nice if a cam gets wiped out or something.

Dual timing chains, 14mm oil pump, water pump is belt driven and replaceable without having to tear into timing cover.

some basics
Brand new engine deserves a new 2015+ FA20DI motor subform just like how the EJ 2.0 and EJ 2.5 have.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:21 AM   #47
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Brand new engine deserves a new 2015+ FA20DI motor subform just like how the EJ 2.0 and EJ 2.5 have.
Read the thread, it's in works.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:01 AM   #48
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There are already low mount designed setups on the aftermarket scene for us GD+ guys.
The used marked for these OEM ones is likely to settle at a price which is a fraction of the new cost of the aftermarket.
Due to the high aftermarket cost, there is not a high number of users, so reliability of those is what their manufacturer says it is.
Due to the same cause, nobody is selling those used, so the only way to buy an aftermarket low mount is new.
A Factory solution, even from a different Subaru, is something to look forward to.
I am looking even to the Legacy factory low mount, but I don't see them come out for sale used on this forum, I did not try a Legacy forum.

With this looking modular and geared towards Garrett, I see this as great news..
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:22 PM   #49
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Sleeve bearings? Steel alloy turbine and shaft?
Yes journel bearing. Or atleast i was told that by a good source. I didnt rip them apart yet. No billet wheels and unsure of shaft

This is to everybody..... Its not hard to get a small turbo to spool fast either... so thats the main reason this turbo spools so quick.... a td04 spools fast with low tech because its small
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:35 AM   #50
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4. how much rpm does tuning avcs affect the spool? let me guess you can spool a huge turbo super hella flush at 1000rpm? avcs is emmissions.


5. these stock 2015 wrx's push 22psi stock no mods.... thats pretty high for stock... and i see how pushing the tubro from the factory can make a engine look better than it really is.

throw that turbo on a ej platform and i bet it spools faster than the previous wrx turbos. doesnt mean the di engine, dual avcs, or fa plaform is doing it...




i still perfer a old subaru chassis, sti 6spd, 20g, ewg dumping hydro carbons to the atmosphere.....
So many issues.

AVCS is a huge help in spooling turbos. This has been proven by basically every tune on any motor that has it. If you care to research, you can even look it up yourself in ppb, with out avcs working decent sized turbos (say, 20g) will spool slower, I saw one 20g that spooled a 1000rpm slower than with it working. And that's an example I can think of offhand from ppb. Or, you could call a tuner. Any tuner actually, and have them explain it to ya.

22psi is high... For a Subaru. Otherwise, a ton of modern single turbo engines are pushing that or more. Ford Focus, MB AMG45, Evo, etc.


DI, dual avcs, and the better flowing heads from the FA20, all play a significant roll in better spool and transient response. The twinscroll design and significantly shorter exhaust helps quite a bit as well.

Also, making any claim about future power with mods is beyond speculation at this point. The engine and turbo are new, until we have hard data on both, I don't know why you would even try to speculate. Quite frankly, there is no reason to anyway, we will be seeing modded ones soon enough.
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