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Old 10-21-2002, 10:57 AM   #1
scottjua
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Angry DAMNITMAN! HELP!!! this one is long...but it could have been you

ok here goes...all you DFW area guys maybe you can help me... Or ANYONE for that matter.

I have been waiting to post about getting the car for pics and having it driven for more than a week so far. Alas, my fortune is not so great. Here's the short and quick of it all:

Get the car (WRB 2002 WRX Wagon) home of the first night. looking it over in the garage showing some friends the new addition to the home and replacement for my APR Passat, and what do I see? Small spots all over the car that look like the paint is bubbling up and is raised in spots. I get the speedshine and caly out and lightly go over a few of the spots to see if they are from something sitting there. Nope, they are in the paint and ALL over the car. I found a few spots that looked like yellow splotches of bird poop was still present, clayed it off and sure enough more raised paint areas. The very next morning I called Huffines and talked to both my sales guy and the Subaru manager to tell them about my concerns and this paint problem. They couldn't tell me over the phone what it was but asked me to bring the car in to have them look at it and see what they can do about it.

I bring the car in and the manager can also see the spots and says they will have it buffed out, and not to worry about it. Just leave it with them when I can and they will take care of it. So...I get the car to them about two days later and drop it off, get a demo and go home praying that they will get these spots out. The next evening when we get home from work I get a call from the Subaru of NA rep at Huffines, and he basically tells me that they CANNOT remove the spots from the car and that it is definitely a defect of some sort. Whether cause by birds or what is underterminable at this point. When they try to buff it out the raised paint spots turn into tiny indentions in the clear coat. He tells me it's not too noticelable but there are a few thigns they can do. One option is to have the whole car re-painted. Granted it won't be a factory paint job and then can't be coverd by Subaru any longer. won't be original, etc etc. OR they can try to buff it out anyway and in lew of having a defect compensate us with any factory options we might like up to a point.

Well, to be honest I know the implications of having a re-paint and want to avoid this by all costs. So I agree to come on down and see how bad these buffed out spots look and we'll go from there. When I get there it's basically as desribed. Instead of raised paint it's indented. Still, you can only tell at certain angles and at least I'll have the factory paint. If there ever IS an issue with oxidizing or other crud it will be under warranty. So let's just get them buffed out and talk about options then. I'd totally prefer my perfect paint to anything they can give me...as I am WAY anal about the original condition of my cars... but since it can't be changed at this point...I guess I really only have one choice.

Cutting to the chase, we make a deal on some 17" wheels and tires while also having them do their best to buff out the spots. They also agree to have the car tinted for free since we were about to have it done ourselves as well. Very nice of them. They have been very nice and cooperative to this point. My wife and I are suprised and are ready to go out and reccomend Huffines to anyone we come across...

SO...we leave the car to get buffed completely and tinted. The next day I give them a call and they tell me it's ready and to come pick it up...and this is where the story get's more complicated and I NEED YOUR HELP! When we see the car...it's got some kind of crud all over it. Looks like soapy water has been left to dry all over the back and where the windows are. Obvioulsy from the tint job. I asked the manager what the heck all this crud is and he says it's from the tint place laying the tint on the outside of the windows to get the shape right before they put it on the inside of the windows. Sound weird to me as I have never heard this approach, but ok...whatever. Still, they don't offer to have it cleaned which would have served two purposes....1. make it nice and presentable 2. Make it easy to see if the paint fix really worked and how the buff out went. SO...since the car is nasty looking I can't really tell where the hundreds of spots they foudn on the rear of the car are and if they've been succesfully buffed out.

We move to the front of the car and I look at the hood where the most obvious spots were. Miraculously they had dissapeared. Evern the indentations where they had showed me the previous day they COULD NOT get out were GONE now. Weird. Thinking we were satisfied, they left us to it... However I though it was too weird that I could not SEE these spots anymore, so I got out and looked closer this time. What do I find? There are some tiny scratches on the hood as if someone skipped something across part of it scraping the finish to reveal a white-ish scratch in places. I immediately go get the manager to show him and I point it out to him. Suspiciously they are right next to where the SPOTS once were, so I questioned if the detailed had done this on accident...but he assured me they would take care of it when our wheels came in.

NEXT thing I find: We get into the car about get down the road a bit when I look over and notice a crecent shaped cut out of the window modling on the passenger side. The rubber modling that keeps water out of the door and acts as a squeegee (sp?) has been sliced slightly, obviously from the tint place. I look at the rest of them and there seems to be quite a few places where they have done this, and the overall tint cut seems to be pretty poor. Rush job? So again, I call them at Huffines and leave a message about this...

NEXT thing: Leaving the hoem depot in frisco I come out to see a dent in the hood that was only visible at certain light and angles right on the hood. Like a door ding but on the hood where it starts to curve forward. Usually curves are the hardest to dent I would assume...??? But neverthe less there it is. A few expletives explode from my mouth as I point this crap out to my wife, and immmediately get on the horn to Huffines. Again I am told they will take care of it when we get the wheels. Again they sound very nice and courteous and we are not fuming, jsut dissapointed.

NEXT: (I know you're thinking what else?) I get home and start looking at the car "it's jsut too weird that those indentations are GONE, how can I miss those?" I think. I lift the hood and notice something out of place. The ID sticker on the two fenders are numbered alike but the hood is numbered differently. I open all the door and the trunk and start checking the ID tags...and they are all ALIKE EXCEPT for the hood! I think "They swithced the hood!" So I take closer inspection and look at ALL of the bolt under the hood and in the engine bay. All of the bolts looks like they have never been touched and have all the factory paint sealed around edges. EXCEPT.... the four holding the hood to the lift mounts. These four bolts have had the paint disturbed around them slightly and also have wrench BITE MARKS in the facets!!! I am 100% positive at this point they did change the hood. So I call Huffines again and tell the manager this new info...where he assures me there's no way they would have done that...and that some how they changed lableing companies in the middle of numbering their cars...and that this must be why my hood in numbered out of sync. I don't think so...but I listen to it and let it go.

Well, last night after talking toa couple of friends in who know these things very well, and we look at the car, they assure me that my suspicions are correct and that the numbering should be all alike, otherwise why bother having all of the pieces numberd at all! I think this makes sens, so you can tell which parts are original, and with the physical evidence this proves that SOMEONE changed hoods on the car without telling me, and the manager (if he really doesn't know), and the Subaru NA rep. So someone is lying in the chain here...and I'm not making accusations...but either they has been truth covered up or truth NOT REVEALED.

This is where I need your help. Can anyone who has bought a car locally or at huffies check their number tags on their doors, trunk, from fenders, and hoods to see if they are ALL numbered alike. Also check your bolts holding the hood to the hood lift mounts to see if the dark blue paint (or whatever color) is intact...and if there are any wrench bite marks in the facets of the bolts!!!??? PLEASE...I apprecaite it VERY MCUH in advance.

Any thoughts...advice...???

I don't think they are knowingly trying to be sneaky, I just think something is amiss...and I want to KNOW what. I want my original hood even with defects...other wise imagine this. I try to sell the car and someone as anal about their cars as me looks at these tell-tale signs. I no longer have the original body parts...why? CAn I look them in the eye tell them this story and expect them to BELIEVE ME? Would you?

Another last fact to contend....is they want to SWAP my stock 16" whee;s for the "compensated" 17" wheels and tires. My theory is if I WANTED to upgrade to those in the first place I wouldn't be financing that portion of the car's price. I am PAYING for my stockers and they are COMPENSATING me with an option for a few reasons. It's more moeny for them to re-paint...it's more hassle as well as what other inconveniences they might incur in a total repaint. I think I should be able to KEEP my 16" while getting the "Compensation 17"... What do you think...???


Thanks guys...
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:15 AM   #2
tEkkGOD
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well i went out to the rain and checked for numbers and the bolts

i did not see any numbering on the hood and the fenders nor on the trunk
just subaru

all the bolts were painted whited and looked untouched
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:21 AM   #3
scottjua
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thanks so much! I think this numbered sticker thing might be isolated to my cetrain dealer. Any huffines people able to comment?

The bolts confirms it more or less...but the more info I have the better.

Sorry it was raining, I REALLY DO appreciate it! ^_^
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:44 AM   #4
Jarvis
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Bankheist needs to chime in here, but he may be told not to....in any case, you're due more than you're getting, and you seem to be meticulous and fair and level-headed. Good for you. I wouldn't let any item go unmentioned for very long. Make a list and have them sign your copy. You're right, they may not be trying to be sneaky, but you need to have them legally recognize the issues at hand. It will pay off if the process breaks down later. Good luck.

Jim
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:51 AM   #5
Bumsarama
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Default Advice

Have you tried contacting Subaru about this? Before you do so, if you bought the car through a loan from a bank other than Subaru's own lending service, tell the bank about it, they want the car to be in perfect condition just in case they have to repo it one day.
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Old 10-21-2002, 12:07 PM   #6
TXBlueBeast
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Default My Numbers Match

I bought my car from Huffines about 3 months and just went out and check the numbers on the hood and fenders and they all match. Also, my bolts for the hood look untouched! Hope that helps!!!
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Old 10-21-2002, 01:15 PM   #7
John C
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It's new, yeah?

Lemon Law

"A motor vehicle may be declared a lemon if it meets all of the following conditions:

The vehicle has a serious defect or abnormal condition.
The defect or condition is covered by a manufacturer's written warranty.
The owner reports the defect or condition to the dealer or manufacturer within the warranty term.
The owner gives the dealer or manufacturer a reasonable number of attempts to repair the defect or condition.
The owner gives the manufacturer (preferably by certified mail) written notice of the defect and at least one opportunity for repair.
The defect or condition persists and substantially impairs the vehicle's use or market value, or creates a serious safety hazard.
The owner files a timely Lemon Law complaint and pays the filing fee. "
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Old 10-21-2002, 02:07 PM   #8
scottjua
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I think a lemon claim is FAR off from what I am looking for. I mean the cars runs just fine and the only real problem to begin with was the paint defect. The other stuff seems to be CAUSED by someone, whether knowingly or unknowingly doesn't matter to me as long as it gets fixed. I think Huffines has been trying to do the right thing and I am appreciative of their friendly addressing of our concerns, however there is a question posed and it needs answered. I won't go over their heads just yet, they have been friendly so far and I talk to the manager again today and he said he doesn't KNOW of the hood being changed and wanted to assure me that he thought no one did swap it...but I also KNOW differently until proven otherwise...which I don't think they can do.

If it was a perfect hood I would not even have noticed... oh well.

So I guess we'll see how this goes...

Any thoughts on the wheels issue? I am not trying to take advantage of the situation cause all I really wanted was my car the way it should have been. BUT, since we are where we are...any thoughts on the stock wheels? Most people seem to think I should be entitled to keep them...
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Old 10-21-2002, 02:33 PM   #9
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i think you need to write a LONG letter to Subaru and the manager of Huffines detailing all the hassle you've been through, list all the days and times you've called and visited...It doesn't quite qualify under the lemon law however there are some other things you can do to possible get retribution which include, reporting them to the Better Business Bureau, the Secretary of State, Subaru Inc, the local newspaper, as well as your local TV's "bad business" group. (each major network news station has one).

and if Huffine's is standing by the car is in OEM condition, have them sign an affidavit saying your car is in original condition as issued from Subaru's factory. .. hell i'll even come notarize it for ya but we both know i wont need to make that trip coz they wont...

oh and next time take a digicam and get it all in pictures too...

personally from everything you've described, there's no way i'd take the car...i'd make them give you a brand new one, like you originally requested and never take your car to their shop EVER AGAIN...

Last edited by SpyderGirl; 10-21-2002 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 10-21-2002, 04:22 PM   #10
scottjua
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Default UPDATE...later in the day

update...

Service guy form huffines called to apologize to me for the misinformation about the hood swap. He admitted that they DID IN FACT swap the hood for another one. He told me that the body guys burned through the clearcoat/paint while buffing out the spots and they figured that they would be putting this new hood on as a temporary replacement and he figured my original hood would be going back on that car. He also said he called the manager and apologized to hima s well for the right info not getting to him as he knew nothing about it.

So I called the manage yet again to tell him what I found out and then the stories got a little mixed up again. The manager says that my hood was never going to go back on my car because it has now been totally RE-Painted...BUT the service guy told me it was still as-is condition. And that the new hood (dent, scratches, and all) could be fixed. BUT I could have my original back if I wanted...just know that it HAS been repainted.

So there's still some minor detail to iron out on the hood situation.

The manger sounds less happy everytime I call, and I can understand but hey...you'd be doing the same wouldn't you?

Now about the wheels situation...what do I do since I feel I should be able to KEEP my stock 16" wheels/tires???

What do I do about the HOOD thing? I am yet to see it still, but do I take the original now that its supposedly been repainted...or get them to fix the new one? Dented/repainted...which one?

my brain hurts...
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Old 10-21-2002, 06:00 PM   #11
dsmith
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Default Dealer comments??

This is a what if post, hoping a dealer is reading this and can comment.

What if, in a case like yours, after a dealer has tried and failed at an attempt to fix a problem that is obviously detrimental to the car's resale, and as noted the car performs fine, the dealer does the following:

Doesn't give you a set of wheels and tires, tint, etc...
Does give you a new car, fixes the paint on the other car and wholesales or sells that car on the used lot?
Dealer then (or before) leans on the manufacturer to cover/split the cost difference.

My guess is that the difference between wholesale and dealer cost is less than $5k, no negative publicity, and more customers.

Am I missing something?
David
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Old 10-21-2002, 06:05 PM   #12
glilly
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I don't mean to sound crass, but... Keep your stock hood, just for the reasons the numbers match. We all know that Subaru paint sucks, so wether it;s been re-painted or not won't matter in the next few months no matter how good you take care of the paint (unless you get that 3m clear stuff). As for the wheels, you would think our are entitled to the wheels, and actually i'm not sure if you are or not, but i've nevr yet seen a buyer get to keep the stockers, ....be happy you got the 17's for no charge, ...if you want the 16's, talk to Bankheist or anyone else selling them for $400 or less. It's a bargain. I understand your pain and hardship, you've obviously been though a lot over this, but i'd recommend putting it aside and enjoy the car.
Greg
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Old 10-21-2002, 09:55 PM   #13
scottjua
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Default Re: Dealer comments??

Quote:
Originally posted by dsmith
... no negative publicity, and more customers.

Am I missing something?
David
Just to be clear I am not out to make negative publicity for the dealer and I am not looking to get more than what was originally offered me. The Subrau of NA rep extended the invitation to compensate with said wheels and tires, and I assumed this would be in addition to my already purchased stock wheels. All I sought out to correct initially was the original defect. The rest is a by-product although favorable and unfavorable for me at the same time. I could care less for the wheels if my car was in perfect condition, but since I like the car, and don't WANT a NEW car...this direction seems the best option. I think the dealer is doing a good deal, but I also think there are some kinks in what should be a smooth path to get this taken care of.

I just don't want to be made into the bad guy here...I didn't just come up with it all to get some free stuff. I think most of you understand that. And this is in response to my interpretation of what I think you meant.

I think I'd still rather keep my stock hood if the paint is done correctly. n fact I DID call back and checked with the service manager, who told me that my original hood was not a total re-paint. Only a 2 inch area on the edge of the hood. What it looks liek remains to be seen and again, what I do...is based on how it looks and if the original hood's paint will now still be covered under subaru warranty...???

The wheels, I feel I should be able to keep...I agree there. I have been without driving it for long enough, I jsut want to enjoy it. So does my wife.
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Old 10-21-2002, 10:32 PM   #14
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Dude, I feel your pain. I have the same anal properties that you obviously have....so just for the sake of consulation and maybe a little laugh in these hard times...let me tell you what happened to my baby last weekend. Texas-OU right? My wife was supposed to leave a former UT schoolmate a key out for house so they could come sober up after the game, while we were out the same night. She forgets the key...we're at a reception and she gets a call from this highly intoxicated friend (along with a few others) from inside my garage!!! They had managed to get the door to garage up some how and were now partying all around my car as well as looking for alternate ways to get inside our house. My wife...God love her...for the sake of everyone else at the reception,I guess, decides she does'nt need to share this highly classified information with her husband. Sunday, nice cool morning for a drive in my brand new WRX, I push the little blue unlock button on the key chain...you know the one...the car gives off a three or four quick chirps. I immediately think; that's strange, I've never heard that from this car before. I start thumbing through the owners manual, after pulling out of the garage, and AH-HAH! some dirty rat has set off the alarm! I get out and go over the car, and apart from hand prints and smugges all over the passenger door and window I don't see anything. About ten minutes later walking out of the local 7-11 with my coffee in one hand and paper in the other, THERE IT IS, two perfectly round and symmetrical dents in the hood. I think I had to have been in the low tens coming down my street in route to talk to my kinda better half.I wake her up and sqeeze the events from the night before out of her....she spills her guts and just like she had predicted the night before...I go ballistic. The girlfriend admits to being drunk and falling down around the car but can't imagine where the dents in the hood would have come from...even had the balls to ask if I'm sure they were'nt there already. So I'm not sure what's worse, trying to get what you need from a dealer? or me trying to get someone who does'nt even remember being in my neighborhood to pay for Mr. Dent Wizard to come and try to make my hood look like new again. Really hope you get your troubles worked out and in your favor.
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Old 10-21-2002, 11:32 PM   #15
zeke
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Default Hold up!

You need to make one thing very certain with these guys, you do not want that car. I am all the way down in Austin and all I have ever heard about Huffines is bad things. All of the numbers SHOULD be the same throughout the car. Having them any other way will tell you a couple of very important things. One, someone had to change the hoods (this I am sure is not done unknowingly), two, if you and your wife ever go and try to trade this car you will loose alot of money because no one will ever believe the story you just told us.
If you just recenlty got the car you should tell both the bank and SOA that you were and are being mislead about the cars current and original condition. If you wait to long to make something happen than you will be stuck with what you have now. A car that is worth alot less that it should be and a dealership that instead of helping you is only burying you further in a car that should be headache free.
I am sure there are plenty of other dealerships in that area that would love to sell you guys a car that has no problems. Good luck and remember you do have rights. Z
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Old 10-22-2002, 01:55 AM   #16
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Personally, i don't think they would be able to sell this car to many people. Finding someone as understanding as yourself is pretty awesome.

I admire your willingness to cooperate on a situation like this. If it was me I would definitely be asking for a new vehicle. The one they're selling you, with or without tint and 17" wheels, is NOT worth what you paid.

I had a great experience with Huffines, and I'm sure they will do whatever you ask to try to make the situation kosher.

Chad
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:04 AM   #17
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**** man... to bad you couldnt have just said **** this a while back and gotten your money back... thats totally wrong how they are bouncing stories around... thats rediculous considering you just spent 24k+ on a new car..


JUST SUE EM BEETCHES!!!
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Old 10-22-2002, 08:07 AM   #18
Texas25RS
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Just a long run of bad service at Huffines.... I have a few stories and will only be taking my car there for something MAJOR now to several "little" things that were done poorly or lost or whatever.... for the best service in the area, they leave a lot to be desired....
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Old 10-22-2002, 12:51 PM   #19
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yes...I will consider all options. A new car would be such a hassle but when value and all come into consideration maybe that's something we can pursue. I guess I'll give them the chance to offer US an alternative first. I plan to give them a run down of my perspective of the whole deal and then see how they reply. If it's not favorable, I will start with MY suggestions.

Apparently we are waiting on the tires to come in before we head there and start this whole "conclusion"...that is IF it ends up in a conclusion.

*sigh*

Ugh
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Old 10-22-2002, 01:07 PM   #20
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scottjua,

Sorry to hear about your experiences here. I've bought enough cars so far in my life that I can tell you most of the time there have been at least a few things that didn't work out like I was told, or that I expected, or that should have been. In fact, only one dealer absolutely took care of everything completely to my satisfaction, with a complete focus on customer satisfaction, and that was Goodson Acura in Irving on a 3.2 CL Type S. Certainly on all our other cars we've bought new during say the past 5 years (Chevrolet Suburban, Chevrolet Corvette, Porsche 911, Porsche Boxster, and yes the Subaru WRX), there have been things not quite right that couldn't (or just plain didn't) get resolved properly by the dealer to my satisfaction. Having said that, my personal experiences with Huffines have been fine, but the only time I've been to their Service shop was for a warranty wheel stud situation that they were very helpful with. As you noted, a lot of options have been thrown on the table here in this dialog. You've got to do what is right for you, and then move on with your enjoyment of the car. Sad to say, but on most new cars, there are going to be some "things" that aren't perfect, even though we're paying mighty good money for them, indeed. Hope we see you at the State Meet this weekend in Houston!

Regards, GoodFinder
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Old 10-22-2002, 01:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by glilly
As for the wheels, you would think our are entitled to the wheels, and actually i'm not sure if you are or not, but i've nevr yet seen a buyer get to keep the stockers, ....be happy you got the 17's for no charge, ...
I don't know about wheels.. but when I purchased my RS.. I got quite a few dealer performance upgrades. (yes.. I know.. I'd do it different if I could do it over)

I got to keep my stock shifter.. pipe.. muffler.. spoiler.. and pod compartment.

All I had to do was ask. The way I saw it.. I paid the sticker price (which was the car with all stock parts) and then the cost of the performance parts.. (the new stuff). I'd better get both.

In your case.. since they are giving you the wheels.. it might be different. But if I was paying the extra (what? 4 grand?) for 17" wheels.. I'd better damn well get the stockers.

- Dean
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:42 PM   #22
Texas25RS
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoodFinder
In fact, only one dealer absolutely took care of everything completely to my satisfaction, with a complete focus on customer satisfaction, and that was Goodson Acura in Irving on a 3.2 CL Type S.
I guess the Acura dealers take a little more pride or something... as much as I hate the sales side of the dealerships owned by Vandergriff... Vandergriff Acura has given me the absolute BEST service.... and that was on a messed up 94 Integra GSR, not a $31K luxery car....
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:55 PM   #23
scottjua
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ah...let's get one thing straight...maybe this changes the idea for a few of you.

Keep in mind I'm not bitchin about keeping my stock 16s because they are giving me the 4000$ BBS 17" wheels...I am getting the 1200$ Legacy B4 carry overs...making the difference between what I lose in cost to my 16s and the DEALER cost (not retail) of the 17s even less.

If they were giving me the BBS wheels I could care less about the stock 16s. It would more that even itself out.
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Old 10-22-2002, 02:58 PM   #24
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I agree...I have never heard any complaints about service from anyone I know. From the NSX people to the integra owners, they all have great things to say.
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Old 10-22-2002, 03:32 PM   #25
Willman67
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Default A similar occurance with happy resolution

A similar thing happened to my new 1995 toyota 4x4 truck (black). Apprently some birds crapped on it about 6 months after I bought it an it literally ate all the way through the clear coat and into the black down to the primer. the crap wasn't on the truck for more than 1 day. Apparenty the birds were eating blackberry looking berries from a tree in my back yard (I forgot the type) and making target runs on my truck on the way out.

Well the dealer wanter to make sure it wasn't from the auto transport ( like hydraulic fluid). My toyota dealer called the regional service rep, he came by and said "Its the bird crap for sure...I'd hate to see those birds!"..toyota offered a full repaint of the truck at a shop of my choice which I did. It didn't cost a penny and they even got me a rental for free. Thats customer service and the dealership earned the first opportunity at my business from then on.

But then again my next vehicles have always been subbies!

Wm
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