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Old 05-12-2014, 10:02 AM   #51
DMBrown
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Originally Posted by blubaru703 View Post
wasn't the caliber slower than the neon, even though it had more power?
it was also heavier but imo looked 10 times better. I used to be in a neon club and I can tell you that reliability issues come from inadequate owners trying to run crazy amounts of boost and not being able to drive.

As far as the dart, I'm glad they are offering it in a AWD setup been saying that since the first SRT in 03'. Dodge has always had the know how to do so......Diamond Star Motors.......DSM. Solid AWD platforms back then, then they just got away with it. Guess they immersed themselves with tons of torque steer and wasted power. I love the SRT brand if I could get one bone stock I would take it. I can't wait to see what the Dart does especially if they make an ACR model......with Dodge's resurgence as a power bragging company it should get very interesting.

And who cares about power windows in the rear? Hasn't been a neon ever made with them.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:43 AM   #52
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The dodge dart has the perception (at least to me) of being a lower quality vehicle compared to it's competitors from mazda, toyota, and even the pathetic honda. Considering it's priced similar to those, that only means two things to me: I'd never buy it and people who do are dumb and don't know cars as well as I do, or they wouldn't buy it either (I am very condescending).
Here's the thing though; even though MSRP is comparable, in the real world the purchase price is way less. Truecar currently has the Dart pegged at $3000 under INVOICE.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:44 AM   #53
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One point I didnt see mentioned was overall vehicle engineering. It isnt just about speed and handling. People were walking away from accidents in Subarus with mere bruises where similar accidents in the SRT4's had occupants smeared across the highway. To have that much power in such an unsafe vehicle at that time, was borderline criminal.
Could say the same thing about an Elise. Or any exotic. Or any motorcycle.

The vast majority of SRT4 owners didn't crash them and didn't die, so to force the rest of them to all pay more for more safety that they frankly didn't want to pay extra for would be criminal.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:52 AM   #54
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The vast majority of SRT4 owners didn't crash them and didn't die, so to force the rest of them to all pay more for more safety that they frankly didn't want to pay extra for would be criminal.
I completely agree. Why we can't let people who want to take the risk take the risk is beyond me. Everything has to have 10 airbags, high belt lines, and weigh 3500lbs now... So frustrating. A good set of TWO front airbags and 3 point harnesses will prevent deaths and serious injury in a vast majority of the accidents that are survivable at all. I don't care for trying to "fix" that 1% of the .001% of deaths that happen from small overlap accidents and such.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:17 PM   #55
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I am still interested in seeing what Chrysler can wring out of the Dart...the platform is already capable of supporting AWD. The Chrysler 200 offers it as an option with the Pentastar V6 making some decent power. It may not be the exact kind of advanced AWD system purists want to see, but it can send 60% of the power to the rear wheels and even if they threw it under the Dart mechanically unchanged with a more aggressive tune for the slushbox and a manual offering, you'd see a heck of a difference in performance vs a FWD model. I am sure they could squeeze improvements in the budget and still come out on top. If Chrysler can get the OK to rummage through the Fiat parts bin they could build something that rivals the WRX for a similar price.

I know it may sound a little far fetched...but an AWD Dart with the 4C motor bumped to 280-300hp would be a sweet, sweet thing...Now that Chrysler is pretty much in Fiats back pocket, wait I mean they are equals in this partnership thing *cough..owned* because its FCA now...they have access to the parts to build something equivalent to an Evolution or STi...but lets just start with the WRX for now.
Actually, the 200C AWD is an active system. I don't know about sending 60% of the torque to the rear though. Most of these active systems are slip-based, meaning you have to have an excess of torque at the front to generate a speed difference across the driveline before the clutches at the back can do anything. While the design of the system can potentially handle 60% of the total driveline torque there aren't many situations where you develop enough speed difference to deliver that torque to the ground. I think that is more of a marketing thing. Like the Cadillac SRX is advertised to put something like 90% of the torque to the rear. It's possible for the hardware to sustain that load, but never at any point in time does it ever see 90% of the load. It might see 50%.

Nonetheless, you are correct that the addition of an AWD system should certainly help it. If they are using the same AWD system as the 200C it should be a bit better than an open diff or even an LSD if they get the calibration right. The question will come down to response time of the active hardware and what kind of functions and features are in the software.
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:39 PM   #56
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The vast majority of SRT4 owners didn't crash them and didn't die, so to force the rest of them to all pay more for more safety that they frankly didn't want to pay extra for would be criminal.
Didn't they? I know I sound like a dick, but I just assumed so. We used to call them Skittles because they were so ridiculously plentiful (plus the colors and shape of the front end). Nowadays I hardly see them anymore; since I know they are iron stout reliable, I just assumed they'd all been crashed. Either by the original owners, or when they started getting cheaper and into (even) younger/dumber hands.

Cool cars, regardless.
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:10 PM   #57
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Didn't they? I know I sound like a dick, but I just assumed so. We used to call them Skittles because they were so ridiculously plentiful (plus the colors and shape of the front end). Nowadays I hardly see them anymore; since I know they are iron stout reliable, I just assumed they'd all been crashed. Either by the original owners, or when they started getting cheaper and into (even) younger/dumber hands.

Cool cars, regardless.
I'm guessing same thing that happened to the 3G Eclipse, Celica, RSX, etc; as they get older and older they get cheaper and cheaper, while the odds of some kid picking one up and poorly modding it and grenading the motor becomes higher and higher.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:50 PM   #58
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...I just assumed they'd all been crashed. Either by the original owners, or when they started getting cheaper and into (even) younger/dumber hands.
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Originally Posted by fiatlux View Post
I'm guessing same thing that happened to the 3G Eclipse, Celica, RSX, etc; as they get older and older they get cheaper and cheaper, while the odds of some kid picking one up and poorly modding it and grenading the motor becomes higher and higher.
I wish I had some hard statistics at the ready, but I would guess the same thing happens with Subarus.

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Old 05-12-2014, 07:57 PM   #59
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I'm guessing same thing that happened to the 3G Eclipse, Celica, RSX, etc; as they get older and older they get cheaper and cheaper, while the odds of some kid picking one up and poorly modding it and grenading the motor becomes higher and higher.

Hey, I own an RSX.

I think 3G Eclipses didn't have the same kind of reliability, they are far less ubiquitous these days. But they were never tremendously popular with the tuning scene anyway, despite the 2F2F cameo. Regarding the Celica, I would have to disagree; of course like my SRT4 observation above, the results are completely anecdotal, but I'm noticing I still see a lot of 7th gen Celicas running about. Though I think Toyota sold a lot more of them compared to the other examples, because they ran from like 1999-2005 and sport compact sales were still quite strong in the early years of it's run.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:45 PM   #60
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I wish I had some hard statistics at the ready, but I would guess the same thing happens with Subarus.

Mike K
I think the same thing happens with just about every affordable performance car. Mustangs, Neons, WRXes, Camaros, DSMs, whatever - it happens to all of them. Try finding a fox body Mustang or a bugeye WRX that hasn't been ragged out to within an inch of its life. By this point, they've all either been modded to the moon, have stupid high mileage, or both.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:43 AM   #61
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This will be great to force Subaru into making something out of the WRX/STi. Maybe the STi will get a power bump after 10 years...

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I like the stripe and would hope they came with matching Scorcher T/As!!
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:07 PM   #62
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I think the same thing happens with just about every affordable performance car. Mustangs, Neons, WRXes, Camaros, DSMs, whatever - it happens to all of them. Try finding a fox body Mustang or a bugeye WRX that hasn't been ragged out to within an inch of its life. By this point, they've all either been modded to the moon, have stupid high mileage, or both.
I actually have a Fox Body Mustang ('88 GT Vert) that is in nearly perfect condition. I'm even the fourth owner. It only has 83,000 miles. I do agree that most that I saw before I bought this one had been totally ragged out.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:37 AM   #63
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Number of times my SRT has been in the shop with issues in the last 6 years: 0
Number of miles: 140,000 (135,000 miles modded with straight pipes, CAI, and predator tune)
Number of DIY repairs: 1 tail light bulb replacement, 1 lift gate gas strut

F-ing bullet proof.

Compared to my 9 year run with my previous '04 STi (100% stock the entire time):
@1,000 miles - Complete catback exhaust replacement due to rust
@2,000 miles - Heat shield replacement
@2,900 miles - Clutch pedal replacement due to loud squeak
@16,000 miles - ECU replacement due to cylinder #3 misfires
@30,000 miles - A/C compressor replacement
@40,000 miles - Clutch replacement
@40,500 miles - Oh, hey, clutch pedal squeak is back
@50,000 miles - A/C compressor #2
@60,000 miles - Sold (still miss it even with the above issues)

Just sayin'. The Dodge/Chrysler stigma is quite unfounded with the SRT line.
True, I have a caliber srt4 and it's been flawless for 66k miles.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:59 PM   #64
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I hope they directly compete with the WRX and Sti, and make it a few grand cheaper on both fronts.

Hopefully they come out with a well put together beast.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:34 PM   #65
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it was also heavier but imo looked 10 times better. I used to be in a neon club and I can tell you that reliability issues come from inadequate owners trying to run crazy amounts of boost and not being able to drive.

As far as the dart, I'm glad they are offering it in a AWD setup been saying that since the first SRT in 03'. Dodge has always had the know how to do so......Diamond Star Motors.......DSM. Solid AWD platforms back then, then they just got away with it. Guess they immersed themselves with tons of torque steer and wasted power. I love the SRT brand if I could get one bone stock I would take it. I can't wait to see what the Dart does especially if they make an ACR model......with Dodge's resurgence as a power bragging company it should get very interesting.

And who cares about power windows in the rear? Hasn't been a neon ever made with them.
U silly. The caliber was a joke. Nobody wanted them and still nobody does. As much as I personally hate neon srt they were an absolute game changer and are deserved lots of credit. A cheap light fun fast car, what more could u ask for. Than came the slow heavy funny looking caliber, they totally dropped the ball with that.

And Chrysler had nothing to do with any of the Dsm engineering. The whole awd system and engine are basically the exact same as an evo 3. All Chrysler did was provide the plant and work force to build them in the usa. I own and have owned a Dsm since 01 that now mAkes 470whp, I actually use evo parts for my trans internals as they are a bit stronger

Last edited by turtleb00st; 06-13-2014 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:05 PM   #66
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U silly. The caliber was a joke. Nobody wanted them and still nobody does. As much as I personally hate neon srt they were an absolute game changer and are deserved lots of credit. A cheap light fun fast car, what more could u ask for. Than came the slow heavy funny looking caliber, they totally dropped the ball with that.

And Chrysler had nothing to do with any of the Dsm engineering. The whole awd system and engine are basically the exact same as an evo 3. All Chrysler did was provide the plant and work force to build them in the usa. I own and have owned a Dsm since 01 that now mAkes 470whp, I actually use evo parts for my trans internals as they are a bit stronger
A beast of a car that many don't talk about is the Cobalt SS Turbo. It was running faster track times on the Nurburgring then the Sti and Evo. It just wasn't built all that well.

For example, the intercooler had hard plastic piping that ran underneath the car and was a direct attachment, as in it wasn't coupled to the intercooler. It was one piece. So say a rock kicks up and you get a hole or you park and go over the stop then you have to buy a whole new intercooler because of that hard plastic hose being so low and exposed.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:47 PM   #67
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A beast of a car that many don't talk about is the Cobalt SS Turbo. It was running faster track times on the Nurburgring then the Sti and Evo. It just wasn't built all that well.

For example, the intercooler had hard plastic piping that ran underneath the car and was a direct attachment, as in it wasn't coupled to the intercooler. It was one piece. So say a rock kicks up and you get a hole or you park and go over the stop then you have to buy a whole new intercooler because of that hard plastic hose being so low and exposed.
I agree the cobalt is bad, the neon srt is bad.... Caliber enh not so much
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Old 06-14-2014, 12:16 AM   #68
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I like the stripe and would hope they came with matching Scorcher T/As!!
That's not the srt dart, that's the mopar edition that came out last year
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:43 AM   #69
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True, I have a caliber srt4 and it's been flawless for 66k miles.
Holy hell, I've never seen anyone who actually bought one.

Gotta be one of the rarest cars on the road. I read somewhere the total production number on Caliber SRT4's was like 700 worldwide. Hang on to it, I guess.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:02 PM   #70
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Holy hell, I've never seen anyone who actually bought one.

Gotta be one of the rarest cars on the road. I read somewhere the total production number on Caliber SRT4's was like 700 worldwide. Hang on to it, I guess.
There's a few in Florida. They just look like a regular neon that's in heat.


I used to see a lot of the up north, but most have exploded or been crashed.
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:30 PM   #71
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There's a few in Florida. They just look like a regular neon that's in heat.

I used to see a lot of the up north, but most have exploded or been crashed.
No exaggeration, I've seen exactly two in my life. One was at a car show. The only one I ever saw in the wild was parked in the parking garage at Universal Studios.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:18 AM   #72
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I live in the town Neons and Calibers were made in I see the SRT models all the time. Maybe they'll road test the SRT Dart het like they did the regular Dart.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:06 AM   #73
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still a Chrysler product. no thanks. interior and drivetrain will be meh.
Chrysler interiors are some of the best in the price range now thanks to Fiat taking over. You do know that the dart is a massaged Fiat Guiletta right??? Same goes for the turbo engine. This car has nothing to do with any chrylser vehicle you're thinking of. The interior is probably one of the best for the entry level price range this thing is at.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:36 AM   #74
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I don't see many SRT Neons, but the ones I do see are usually in pristine condition so they're not being driven regularly by punk kids. That group is still working through the few remaining SE-Rs, Civic Sis, Talon/Eclipses and early model WRXs.
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:20 PM   #75
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I've seen a few SRT-4 Neons this week. The car got a lot of internet hive mind flack for being FWD and a Neon, but from what I gather, the motors were very capable and strong. 4g63-esque.
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