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Old 06-11-2014, 08:52 PM   #26
dwf137
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Of course. It definitely adds weight and some complications but it doesn't leave the same environmental impact that creating lithium ion batteries does.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aschen View Post
the article and video are marketing nonsence

1. what is the energy density
2. can it be manufactured at scale cost effectively

These are the two most important questions for an energy storage system. Im not chemist but I got a strong hunch there is some other nasty chemical in there besides air, aluminum and water.
If only the reaction was a well understood redox one.

Oh wait, it is!
4Al + 3O2 + 6H2O → 4Al(OH)3 + 2.71 V when using a KOH catalyst.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:05 AM   #28
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as I said Im not a chemist, though none of that stuff looks too nasty as I previously thought.

I am sure some other bits are required to sustain the reaction at a reasonable rate though, or we would already power everything with tin foil and a glass of water. The pragmatics of making such a battery work are more involved than high school chem.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
Rotaries, no.
Turbo, yes.

Off the top of my head I can't think of an automaker that doesn't offer a turbo vehicle.
Off the top of my head, in the states: Honda. Caddilac. Jeep. Toyota... just to name a few.

--kC
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:41 AM   #30
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I guess it also depends if you are talking percentage of models made or vehicles sold.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
Rotaries, no.
Turbo, yes.

Off the top of my head I can't think of an automaker that doesn't offer a turbo vehicle.
Lamborghini. Honda. Scion. Toyota. Lexus. Cadillac. Chrysler.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:03 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Off the top of my head, in the states: Honda. Caddilac. Jeep. Toyota... just to name a few.

--kC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Lamborghini. Honda. Scion. Toyota. Lexus. Cadillac. Chrysler.
Honda/Acura - Acura RDX (edit: I guess Acura replaced the 2.3 turbo with a V6 in 2012, so you got me there. They've already reveled future 1.0, 1.5, and 2.0 turbo engines though.)
Cadillac - ATS 2.0 Turbo
Toyota/Scion/Lexus - ISF and soon the IF 250
Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram/Fiat - Dart 1.4 Turbo, 500 Abarth, Ram 1500 Turbo Diesel, Jeep Grand Cherokee turbo diesel

Lamborghini - I don't know, I'll take your word for it.

Last edited by justincredible; 06-12-2014 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:28 PM   #33
Calamity Jesus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justincredible View Post
Honda/Acura - Acura RDX (edit: I guess Acura replaced the 2.3 turbo with a V6 in 2012, so you got me there. They've already reveled future 1.0, 1.5, and 2.0 turbo engines though.)
Cadillac - ATS 2.0 Turbo
Toyota/Scion/Lexus - ISF and soon the IF 250
Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram/Fiat - Dart 1.4 Turbo, 500 Abarth, Ram 1500 Turbo Diesel, Jeep Grand Cherokee turbo diesel

Lamborghini - I don't know, I'll take your word for it.
Turbo ISF? No.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
flywheel storage is an alternative to batteries and is being tested by multiple car manufacturers. I recall Porsche having a concept/race car using this technology. I also believe Volvo is messing around with the technology in test mules.

mechanical storage seems like a great idea, but obviously will dissipate over time. Still seems like it's more efficient in the short term compared to trying to create electricity, store it, then re-convert it. It also avoids massive amounts of batteries.
Interesting. Thanks.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Cazodores View Post
Interesting. Thanks.
it actually looks like the porsche system is just an electrical storage system, so you still have motors converting mechanical energy into electrical energy, then back to mechanical energy as it spins the flywheel. Then when you need the energy back, it has to convert the mechanical energy in the flywheel to electrical energy, and then back to mechanical energy at the wheels. I like it because it gets rid of batteries, but that's a lot of energy conversions, just asking for efficiency losses.

The Volvo system is a purely mechanical system, which I see as having a lot of promise. It uses a clutch to direct power to the flywheel, no need to convert the energy.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11403287...sting-promises
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