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Old 06-12-2014, 11:12 PM   #26
Cazodores
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Not if you are the battery supplier.
True.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:20 PM   #27
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What a stupid business plan. How bout making a more affordable, realistic version.... now someone else will and you will go out of business.
nah, Elon only wants to make more expensive vehicles. the $40k version is for GM to make.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:00 AM   #28
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I wonder if this could be beneficial for Subaru and its EV effort.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:42 AM   #29
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The problem is the free hype machine dried up. So now we get more tesla hype. A large company would not risk a lawsuit just because someone verbally said they would not enforce their patents. It is free advertising again. Tesla was probably upset that their sales are following the same pattern as the leaf and volt, both of which are successful vehicles. Having another successful electric drive vehicle is a good thing IMO.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:12 AM   #30
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What a stupid business plan. How bout making a more affordable, realistic version.... now someone else will and you will go out of business.
I know, what an idiot! I wish he would have thought of this before you did.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:18 AM   #31
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It's good to see a millionaire that doesn't need more millions. I hope this is a start of a trend.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:22 AM   #32
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Crowdsourced development. Perfect. If I were GM, Fiatsler, Ford, I'd already have people on the phone arranging delivery of the data pacakages.

--kC
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:04 AM   #33
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This is a golden opportunity for Nissan.
70 miles per charge on the Leaf is a little sad when the Model S can do 4x that.

Granted, the price difference between to two is pretty significant, but still...
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:20 AM   #34
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I suspect if the Leaf could go 200 miles at the current price it's sales would double.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:21 AM   #35
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The supercharger stations will not be 'free' for long.
They arn't free now, you pay each time or you pay when you buy the car to not pay each time.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:45 AM   #36
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I suspect if the Leaf could go 200 miles at the current price it's sales would double.
Absolutely.

With a 200 mile range I'd be considdering a $30k Leaf today.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:29 AM   #37
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Why is this so surprising to anybody. Like cell phones, the money is not in the cars, never will be, the money is in the charging stations and battery packs. The supercharger stations will not be 'free' for long.

Cell phones, ink jet printers, iPhones, etc. all operate on the same model. Get them hooked on the product, and then charge them for service. If that service is a rental contract for a home based supercharger, or whatever.

He is a shrewd business man, no doubt.
First off, I charge my car regularly at a 480v DC fast charger. Takes all of 10-15 minutes to pick up free electrons. I watch the KWh used when I'm there. If it's a long charge (where my batteries are close to dead) I might be there 20-25 minutes and that means about $1.00 in electricity, and that takes me 70-80 miles. So I get 2 years of this for free, but even when I have to pay for it it's going to be small fraction of what gasoline would cost. There is another network of charging stations (I get free access to those starting in July), that if I use those, it's $1 for members, $2 for non-members. That's 240v, per hour. So you are out picking up groceries, or other necessities, so you plug in for 30 minutes, an hour, whatever, that whole dollar they charge you is going to break the bank I just renewed for home electricity and I'm now paying .091 per Kwh. Commercial rates are much lower (I know someone who does that for a living) so even though they only charge you a buck an hour they are turning a profit (charging networks).

A home based 240v charger, well those are a whopping $750 now. None of it is expensive. I was spending $50-75 a month on diesel in my JSW, and it was pretty fuel efficient (averaged 40MPG). I think now I'm spending maybe $5. When my 2 years of free charging stations runs out, I'll probably be spending somewhere around $10-15 a month. A fraction of the cost of fossil fuel.

Bring on the $35k Tesla. If that dude can make something in the 0-60MPH 5second range, I might just have to buy one.

Last edited by Pre; 06-13-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:36 AM   #38
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nah, Elon only wants to make more expensive vehicles. the $40k version is for GM to make.
Didnt GM make a fantastically practical solution to the EV with the VOLT for 40k? It seems like nobody cared.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:37 AM   #39
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On an off note, I'm loving all of these super-futuristic interiors that are coming out in all of these EV's.... it took them long enough to start to get designs here.


Leaf

The tesla executes the best on both interior and exterior, obviously, but that leaf interior is cool as well. I love things like that. The audi from "I, Robot" is more where I want cars to go (in terms of styling, at least). Ultra futuristic space odyssey type stuff.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:45 AM   #40
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Didnt GM make a fantastically practical solution to the EV with the VOLT for 40k? It seems like nobody cared.
Volt sales have been hurt by production and supply problems and not just demand. There was no stock to sell on January and February.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:11 AM   #41
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I want the new Ultraman edition of the Leaf



About the Volt.

GM is saying the 2016 model will be about $10,000 less. I wonder how much that will spur sales.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:41 AM   #42
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The patent race in this country is killing innovation. We need more forward thinking business men like Musk.

It will no doubt result in other manufacturers putting competing products on the market, but will absolutely push the technology forward to the point that it could become mainstream. He will benefit from that, whether there's competitors out there or not. Even if he's getting half of the sales, if it doubles demand because prices drop, charging becomes more efficient, etc. then he wins.
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:46 AM   #43
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Patents slow advancement AFTER good ideas come because they stop other people from working on improving that idea quickly, but as for the initial idea, I'd say that patents help innovation by giving a good reason to develop new ideas (by giving you essentially a monopoly on something, guaranteeing if it's a good idea you'll get rich).
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Old 06-13-2014, 11:54 AM   #44
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Hydrogen Powered Electric vehicles are the real future.... Or at least should be. The Honda Insight brought it to the table with what seems to be the most practical hydrogen car.

Battery power is fine, it is just like everyone else is saying; Not enough range and too long to charge. Most people can't afford to have an electric car just for driving around town AND another car to make long distance trips!
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:00 PM   #45
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The patent race in this country is killing innovation.
Care to elaborate? For every one of you, there's someone else that says they don't have the incentive to invest in innovation if anyone can come along and use it at will.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:07 PM   #46
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Care to elaborate? For every one of you, there's someone else that says they don't have the incentive to invest in innovation if anyone can come along and use it at will.
I certainly wouldn't invest millions in R&D just so someone else could come along and produce what I have without the need to drop the cash on the R&D, thereby enabling them to undercut my prices since they just have the cost of actually making the part and nothing else.

Research is usually time intensive and expensive. Reverse engineering, not so much. It's one of the reasons why JDM parts cost so much and then the replicas are so cheap.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:00 PM   #47
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Nikola Tesla did the same thing, coincidence? Only thing is he died alone and poor without getting recognition for his inventions/innovations. I bet its a publicity thing, I cant imagine someone is willing to loose everything they worked for in this day and age, but maybe not IDK?
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:18 PM   #48
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Nikola Tesla did the same thing, coincidence? Only thing is he died alone and poor without getting recognition for his inventions/innovations. I bet its a publicity thing, I cant imagine someone is willing to loose everything they worked for in this day and age, but maybe not IDK?
I wouldn't equate promising not to sue over any patents you hold "not getting recognition for his inventions" or risking loosing everything. He's just not going to draw companies into hundred(s) million dollar lawsuits for using his patented tech (hopefully as a stepping stone).
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:23 PM   #49
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The whole point of the patent system is to encourage innovation. I have worked in R&D for 12 years and I can tell you we wont spend any money or effort on something we cant protect. Why would we?

There are some unintended consequences, and the system can be cumbersome, but we are way better off with it.
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Old 06-13-2014, 01:42 PM   #50
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Anyone who thinks this was done for altruistic reasons was born yesterday.

Musk is a businessman, shrewd even, he did this for a business purpose. It wasn't to prove a point that the current patent laws of the country are messed up, or to try and save the environment, or whatever, he has a plan to turn this into more money.
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