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Old 10-23-2002, 07:19 PM   #1
desiwrx02
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Default Would TurboXS Mind...

.. If people go and have their cars tuned, and post their maps online? I mean lets say someone has an UP/DP and gets tuned on the dyno, then i get the maps for free??? Or would that person own the rights, and be able to sell them to me. Or would TurboXS object to that. How is this going to work, as the only maps out at wrxhackers are XS stage maps. Once people go in to get dyno tuned, its going to definitely affect business at the TurboXS dyno, but then again they are making 1000 frickin dollars a pop, when standalones cost 1400...
Ajay
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Old 10-23-2002, 08:25 PM   #2
nmyeti
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Default Re: Would TurboXS Mind...

Quote:
Originally posted by desiwrx02
.. If people go and have their cars tuned, and post their maps online? I mean lets say someone has an UP/DP and gets tuned on the dyno, then i get the maps for free??? Or would that person own the rights, and be able to sell them to me. Or would TurboXS object to that. How is this going to work, as the only maps out at wrxhackers are XS stage maps. Once people go in to get dyno tuned, its going to definitely affect business at the TurboXS dyno, but then again they are making 1000 frickin dollars a pop, when standalones cost 1400...
Ajay
Ajay,
If someone wants to post his or her maps, I say go for it. We built this setup so that you guys could tune and play with it, and if you can use a custom base-map that we built from a dyno tune then have at it.

FYI we are booked till the end of January for dyno time, although we do have some Saturday dates available for UTEC dyno tunes.

-Nathan
www.turboxs.com
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Old 10-24-2002, 05:36 PM   #3
TurboXS
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Default

I agree with what Nathan said and I'll add the following:

People have already done this, and we encourage it. If we didn't want people to "share" we wouldn't have made it so easy for them to do it.

With that said, however, USE EXTREME CAUTION when downloading a UTEC map off the internet, uploading it to your UTEC, and stomping on it. Even minor differences in parts can result in major differences in maps. Intakes are a great example. A fuel map that works well for an Injen intake will not work at all for a Cobb/APS instake. Boost control settings are another example. Some turbos have a choice of wastegates (like the PE series). A boost map that works well for a 10psi wastegate will not work quite so well with a 14.5psi wastegate. Also, someone may make a map for use with C16 Leaded Race Gas and post it somewhere on the net. If they forget to mention that the map was tuned for C-16 and you try to run the ignition and fuel map tuned for 117 Octane gas on 93 Octane pump gas, even the UTECs excellent knock control system may not save you. Last, people need to be aware of the Parameter Settings for the maps as well. If they are changed from our baseline, you need to know that. So while we believe sharing is good, and we encourage it, do so with caution.

As far as our dyno tuning business is concerned, I'm not too worried. We're booked until February as it is and, in the end, nothing is going to beat a custom tune done by a good tuner on a dyno.

Last, as far as "making 1000 frickin dollars a pop" , believe it or not, it does actually cost us some money to buy components, build the UTECs and ship them halfway across the world. And the years worth of R&D was not free either.

Mark
TurboXS
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Old 10-24-2002, 05:45 PM   #4
8Complex

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FWIW, two cars with the exact same setup can and will act differently. It's a fact of manufacturing tolerances.
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Old 10-24-2002, 07:54 PM   #5
desiwrx02
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No offense with the 1000 dollars a pop, but in my honest opinion thats a bit overpriced for strictly standalone boost, timing, and piggy back fueling... But nevertheless its what i need and were paying more for the convenience of keeping the Subaru unit in place and in charge most of the time, so youll see my name on your waiting list for November
Ajay
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Old 10-25-2002, 08:22 AM   #6
Austin
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by desiwrx02
but in my honest opinion thats a bit overpriced for strictly standalone boost, timing, and piggy back fueling...
It's not at all overpriced - it's an awesome unit at a great price. Unichips cost $700, right?
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Old 10-25-2002, 12:56 PM   #7
n2xlr8n
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Default 1K a pop

Quote:
Originally posted by desiwrx02
No offense with the 1000 dollars a pop, but in my honest opinion thats a bit overpriced for strictly standalone boost, timing, and piggy back fueling...
Ajay
You won't think that when you get your car tuned with it. I'm amazed that people will pay $90 for a thermostat, but <wouldn't> pay $1000 for a UTEC..FWIW, it's performance outweighs the cost.
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Old 10-26-2002, 05:52 PM   #8
SpeedRacer-X
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NE1 who thinks the UTEC is an overpriced piggy back needs to put the pipe down and come back to reality.

It acts as a Piggyback at the moment to avoid having to mess with closed loop tuning. Read before you post such uneducated opinions.

Ummm, $1K for the ECU WITH injector drivers is cheap. N00B must not have looked very far with aftermarket ECU's on any car, let alone a Subie.

You go get 322hp/306ft/lbs of torque with a Unichip , you can't unless you pay a small fortune in Dyno time at a vendor that can reprogram the darn thing.

Shawn
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Old 10-27-2002, 11:26 AM   #9
nmyeti
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedRacer-X

Ummm, $1K for the ECU WITH injector drivers is cheap. N00B must not have looked very far with aftermarket ECU's on any car, let alone a Subie.

Shawn
It also has it's own coil-drivers...

-Nathan
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Old 10-27-2002, 12:13 PM   #10
desiwrx02
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I apolgize if my comment was taken badly. I obviously have the right to express my opinion on a public board, nevertheless... I am very appreciative of the product, and like i have said will be purchasing one. The lack of specific competition in the market is the reason, that i feel the way I do, about the price. And plenty of unichips are going for 400-450.

Theres no reason that you cant make identical numbers with a Unichip, only difference is that it one is a more convenient one way. Theres nothing that the UTEC magically does differently than other forms of standalone engine management in terms of making power, that makes it the greatest thing since sliced bread. And Speed-Racer, please tell me you havent been on the dyno since you purchased the UTEC.

Obviously the convenience of working in conjunction with the factory ECU makes it so desirable. I laud TurboXS' ingenuity in producing a product like the UTEC, because it suits 90 percent of WRX owners needs, who drive their cars everyday, not just at the track once a week. I predict that if other companies enter the ball game the true market value of the UTEC will be determined, until then i commend TurboXS for the great product they offer, and a job damn well done as far as support.

Ajay
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Old 10-27-2002, 03:53 PM   #11
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Well, how about someone work up a difference comparison program for the maps? It could check your map vs the new one and highlight the large deviances so you can not only try to avoid problems, but learn from those with better tuning.
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Old 10-27-2002, 04:14 PM   #12
fastburro
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Quote:
Originally posted by desiwrx02


Theres no reason that you cant make identical numbers with a Unichip, only difference is that it one is a more convenient one way. Theres nothing that the UTEC magically does differently than other forms of standalone engine management in terms of making power, that makes it the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Ajay
I don't quite agree with this statement, based on my experience. One of the differences between the Unichip and the UTEC is that the Unichip modifies the stock ignition timing, while the UTEC has absolute control over the timing. This would not be very important if the Subaru ECU had very consistent and predictable timing maps, but this does not seem to be the case. The stock ecu can be very psychotic about timing, making it very difficult to get consistent results over time, thus it makes it necessary to detune the Unichip compared to the UTEC to accommodate the uncertainty of the stock timing. We certainly found this to be true while dyno tuning my car, and I have also heard the same story from Mark at TurboXS This ignition issue was one of many reasons that convinced me to upgrade to the UTEC.

Hope this helps

Mark
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Old 10-27-2002, 05:54 PM   #13
desiwrx02
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Retro, I believe a gentleman came up with a nifty program to do side by side comparisons of UTEC maps.

Fastburro,
Thats true... I was wrong there. But with a non-interceptor like a standalone, theres really no difference.
Ajay
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Old 10-27-2002, 06:15 PM   #14
AzSubie
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Ok, IMHO, aftermarket parts for the WRX do tend to be overly expensive compared with other cars. I mean, my friend who's into the whole jeep thing can get a nice set of headers for his 5.9 liter engine for $340-400. A catback will run 150 to maybe 200 for a nice set-up. Compare that to ours. Yikes. However, looking at the UTEC and what it does and allows one to do, and comparing it to what else is currently available, a $1000 seems like a gonga deal. Plus, the people who built it and support it seem like some of the best in the business. I know I can't wait to get mine in the mail.
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