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Old 07-03-2014, 05:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
Most people have no idea what stuff costs to make and they expect everything to be within their budget. $9K is reasonable.
Don't quote me, I'm going by memory, but I think the billet 4G63 block from the Australian company is more than $9k... and it would be easier to produce than an EJ series block. While $9k is not even on the radar of my budget, it's a fair price given the amount of CNC time it takes to manufacture.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:43 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Bariga View Post
it includes your mom spoolin
So you troll the troll? How does that make you any better?


Anyways

In for results on this crazy block, will be interesting to see what is the next point of destruction.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:21 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Jubathoph View Post
Is billet material any stronger than cast, similar to forged vs cast? Or is it just machined more precisely?

Clearly the block itself is stronger because of the closed deck design and added material.
Much much stronger. Not sure if you know how making billet pieces work but it starts off as a solid block of aluminum and it's made from there. I saw a billet big block Chevy being machined in person a few years ago. It's extremely impressive and it makes you realize how time consuming it is.

I think $9k is a reasonable price. I'd never buy one but it's a ton of work.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:34 PM   #29
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The grain structure in billet material is usually very uniform and much stronger than its cast counterpart. In cast metals producers have much less control and have to do a number of things to try and improve its qualities. When designing a block on a cnc they can actually make it so that the sleeves are properly supported with no fear of dropping one. If you have ever seen a Ferrari sleeve you'll notice that it just pops in with some o-rings on the bottom. They can do the same with this type of block and increase the reliability with a high boost application.
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #30
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Man I wish I could afford the 9k right now.... maybe in the future
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:08 PM   #31
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Take that $15k and save it for a better car....
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:15 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by 0STI6 View Post
Hi Jason,
I'm a noob when it comes to engines so I hope ive worded this right but have u guys considered raising the deck height to run longer rods with the added stroke to keep the rod ratio decent for hi rpm power?
Thanks,
Martin.
Interesting. I'll ask Spiro from Autotech to see what he thinks of that idea? Sounds like a solid theory to me. Sure no problem, we can write the program to raise the deck for sure. If Spiro agrees with your theory then we could certainly try it. I like more revs and less broken rods is always great

Thanks for your suggestion and that valuable in put.

Please keep the ideas coming guys.

I raced our EVO today at the Australian Nulon Nationals and had a crap run, crashing in my own oil twice. It blew the oring out on the oil filter in the first session, so I put it back on with vice grips and did it again after 6 laps on the second run, dam thing. It turns out to be the oil filter not matched properly to the oil filter housing. Two big offs, one at 120kph with the oily skids on the track only surpassed by the skids in my undies.

Bloody EVO's, they put the oil filter right next to RHS front wheel.

Can't wait to get the HULK out when we got this engine sorted.

Cheers Jason.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:28 AM   #33
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Take that $15k and save it for a better car....
Come one Alokin, we build Subies here that can demolish much more expensive GTR's Porsche and such.

People who do these mods mostly get much pleasure from building something themselves and making their own choices to put together their perfect package.

Sure, go buy a GTR35 or Porsche and drive it like it's meant to be driven (most people don't) and that's great for sure, but nothing satisfies like when you build your own tuner car from a shopping trolley and then hose those shop brought supercars at the local track day.

Horses for courses and I'm not knocking either path, but I struggle to find how your post adds any value to this built motor thread?

Regards,

Jason
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:33 AM   #34
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Man I wish I could afford the 9k right now.... maybe in the future
Hey that's cool, you can follow our progress for free.

And maybe one day when we have the full package sorted, we could organise a bulk buy and try get some blocks to the states at better pricing?

Just thinking out loud there? Sometimes that gets me in the $hit, but as I survived two near death experiences today I'm going to press submit anyway.
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:45 AM   #35
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Cool

Gotta love skidies in ya pants ....lol .

I am lucky enough to have put in an order for one of the billet blocks ,and look forward to "creating"some amazing reliable results ,with big horsepower .But as we know big horsepower does not win races ........but there is a saying " to finish first,first you must finish "
I think reliability is the major key here ,undoubtedly.
I will be happy once we get over Time Attack this year and get setup with the billet block for 2015 rounds here in Australia .Along with the S6 Sequential ,this should be a formidable "weapon of choice "
Check out "Time Attack 22b " The Betty" on Facebook and you will see the build we have done and the future mods that will be doing.

To give you an idea it's a 2 Dr Sti Widebody ,Aerosim Kit etc ........Check it out

Could be fun with a 1000whp .......
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:50 AM   #36
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Much much stronger. Not sure if you know how making billet pieces work but it starts off as a solid block of aluminum and it's made from there. I saw a billet big block Chevy being machined in person a few years ago. It's extremely impressive and it makes you realize how time consuming it is.

I think $9k is a reasonable price. I'd never buy one but it's a ton of work.
Thankyou, saved me some typing

Of course it's much stronger that cast, both in material properties and material placement to support the sleaves, mains and decks. +++

I agree, it's not for everyone and sure it's a ton of; expensive product, time, development and work. You'd never do it as a business proposition. We're driven by passion and desire to make a solution that works for the top end of the EJ performance market.

At this price we'd have to sell 100+ units just to get our development costs back. Think Bugatti Veyron - sells every unit at a loss for pure marketing and to prove a point. Sure we'd like to pull some return on our investment at some point, but we really only doing it to prove it can be done and make our race cars the most kicking ass Subies in the world

Surprisingly, we have units pre-sold already but those are special deals and there is no way we'd let these off shore until we've finished track testing and are satisfied that it's fully sorted.

Cheers JW...
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:03 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Rogue_P View Post
Don't quote me, I'm going by memory, but I think the billet 4G63 block from the Australian company is more than $9k... and it would be easier to produce than an EJ series block. While $9k is not even on the radar of my budget, it's a fair price given the amount of CNC time it takes to manufacture.
Thank you.

I think Autotech will try sort out the 4G63 block next .

I hear it will be cheaper than the Subaru blocks. But there is not such a great need for it in the market place.

I drive the Autoech EVO also and look forward to seeing progress on that engine when they start on it. Cast evo blocks from factory are MUCH stronger than the factory EJ blocks, so there is not a great calling for it. BUT the kicker for the EVO is that the OEM cast block sits high and is HEAVY, as well as being forward of the front axel, that's why our subies can out run them in the corners. The Billet 4G63 saves 15kg over and forward of the front axel. For the race and time attack guys that's a massive handling and chassis performance gain.

Cheers Jason
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:08 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by spoolinsti05 View Post
Does it include pistons and rods and crank?
Short motors, balanced, blue printed and assembled to full HULK spec, are around $15,300 USD on todays exchange rate.


Cheers Jason
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:43 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Cowboy View Post
Short motors, balanced, blue printed and assembled to full HULK spec, are around $15,300 USD on todays exchange rate.


Cheers Jason
It sounds like a lot at first, but when u consider some of the big hp suby guys r on like their 3rd or 4th motor it starts to make more sense, that's if all goes well in testing that is.

That's why I've came to terms with the fact that I'll never be able to afford more than 500hp in my car, and even if I did decide one day to bite the bullet and build a big hp ej I would never have enough money to set up my driveline, suspension, aero etc. to fully take advantage of it.

I really hope this billet motor works out for you guys, sick of seeing really well set up subies just get out powered by evos at the track and not get the results they r capable of.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:31 PM   #40
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At the end of the day its still a Subaru. You may smoke stock versions of said super cars ,but against an equally modded version its not even in the same league.

Don't get me wrong, I love my STI and put some crazy miles on it as a DD but making it something its not is a waste of time and money (for joe schmo, not shops in teh biz).

I love making something my own, hell I own a fairly large design business/machine shop and am an engineer by trade so I appreciate all of that.

Shops who make money modding or selling mods for these cars, buying a $15K custom fab'd EJ makes sense to me. They can compete with it and keep their names relevant.

But for some typical Subaru fanboi not so much... hed be better off saving and investing that ~15K and buying a better car a few years down the road.

Back to the block, $15K is a steal for what you get:
I am looking forward to your results, I have a 4axis VMC sitting here ready to go, I just need some drawings


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cowboy View Post
Come one Alokin, we build Subies here that can demolish much more expensive GTR's Porsche and such.

People who do these mods mostly get much pleasure from building something themselves and making their own choices to put together their perfect package.

Sure, go buy a GTR35 or Porsche and drive it like it's meant to be driven (most people don't) and that's great for sure, but nothing satisfies like when you build your own tuner car from a shopping trolley and then hose those shop brought supercars at the local track day.

Horses for courses and I'm not knocking either path, but I struggle to find how your post adds any value to this built motor thread?

Regards,

Jason

Last edited by ALOKIN; 07-04-2014 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 07-04-2014, 05:48 PM   #41
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At the end of the day its still a Subaru. You may smoke stock versions of said super cars ,but against an equally modded version its not even in the same league.

Don't get me wrong, I love my STI and put some crazy miles on it as a DD but making it something its not is a waste of time and money (for joe schmo, not shops in teh biz).

I love making something my own, hell I own a fairly large design business/machine shop and am an engineer by trade so I appreciate all of that.

Shops who make money modding or selling mods for these cars, buying a $15K custom fab'd EJ makes sense to me. They can compete with it and keep their names relevant.

But for some typical Subaru fanboi not so much... hed be better off saving and investing that ~15K and buying a better car a few years down the road.

Back to the block, $15K is a steal for what you get:
I am looking forward to your results, I have a 4axis VMC sitting here ready to go, I just need some drawings
Hi yes and thanks, I agree with what you say. After hanging around so many tuner shops and being a fan-boi myself in the start (ough the good-old days) I do often lament some of the cash spent on stuff that either I didn't really need or stuff that just didn't do what it was supposed to. I could have brought a Porsche for what I've since spent on my 7 year love affair with my 2003 STi, but you know what, if had a chance to do it again, I probably would. I don't think owning a Porsche would have given me the same level of rewards that building two of Australia's fastest Subaru's has.

Dam-it, I still want the Porsche, but not at the expense of my Subies
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by The Cowboy View Post
Short motors, balanced, blue printed and assembled to full HULK spec, are around $15,300 USD on todays exchange rate.


Cheers Jason
If you consider that most of the "high end" motors being built these days are in the $13,000 range, $15k for a short block of such epic magnitude isn't all that bad. Hell, given how much money I have wasted on scrap metal, I could have purchased one of these and been ahead.

The very best of luck to you guys, I will be watching from the side lines cheering you on.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:59 PM   #43
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Had a good giggle about the Porsche.....my sendaments exactly .I could've Have a 911 turbo for the coin I have spent on the Sti,but I wanted something that would still look cool in time ......
E cited about getting the block to test it out and get a few others using them .Yes,it is a lot if coin,but ,let's see how they stack up over time .I'm in ,,,,,,,,
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:01 AM   #44
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Any pics at all on the billet block,would love to see the cutout.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:30 AM   #45
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There's some on the autotech facebook page.
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:38 AM   #46
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Any pics at all on the billet block,would love to see the cutout.
Here are some pictures of one case half, which is currently on the mill. These we taken late last week. We're fitting sleaves next week, as well as bolt the two halves together, tunnel bore, deck and hone ? Getting close.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1316373&type=3

Sorting out a couple of fiddly details at the moment, the boys are working the weekend on it and writing some new code for the CNC, since we made a $10k paper weight last week So nothing exciting to take pictures of today.

Onwards and upwards now thanks...
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Old 07-05-2014, 03:57 AM   #47
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Subscribing for billet goodness. Cant wait to see this thing done.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:27 AM   #48
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There's some on the autotech facebook page.
Here we go, I'm going to try post some photos direct from photo bucket. I just want to show an example one of the significant advantages of the billet block over the sleaved OEM block.

If the closed decking is done nice the Subaru cast block, it looks lovely when you get it back from the machine shop, but what most people don't realise is, that under the fancy CNC closed deck plates, is something like the example below, desperately trying to hold the sleave in the block.

Notice there is very little block material left around the sleave and at the top there is virtually nothing left attaching the bore area to the top deck. Now, very clever people have engineered around this to make CNC close deck systems to tie it all together once the sleave gets pressed in, but at the end of the day there is a limitation to how well this can be done and the success rate varies significantly from one to the other.

[IMG][/IMG]

Where our block looks like this.



There is no risk, it's like a dry sleaved diesel engine. It can't go anywhere, nor can it twist, drop, move or shake. All of which are death to the head gasket seal. The sleaves are replaceable also, so these blocks can be used for multiple rebuilds.
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Old 07-05-2014, 04:53 AM   #49
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Can u fit sleeves to suit small bore 92mm pistons??
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:50 AM   #50
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Can u fit sleeves to suit small bore 92mm pistons??
Yes but it would require a different sleave and then just a matter of boring the block to suit it.

I can't see a major problem with it, but it would be a one off so more expensive and I'm not certain what the advantage is?

I expected more people will be asking if the can have the 102mm piston
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