Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday October 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-13-2014, 11:08 AM   #1
mukak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395068
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Irvine CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Vf34

Default removed factory ubrace now have a question

i have a 02 WRX and just removed the factory UBRACE ( for weight reduction purpose )

after removing the UBRACE i really didnt feel any body flex ( under normal driving ) but i would like to reinforce the bottom by adding a 4 point lower brace

i did some googling on this and 4 point braces require the UBRACE to still be mounted on the car or custom brackets will be needed to fill in the gap

where do i get a 4 point brace that I will not need to modify to fit?

i also dont wanna spend a fortune, any vendors on here got one?

thanks
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
mukak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 06:54 PM   #2
Big-E
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 123843
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Sedan SGM
Let LED's light your way!

Default

Leave out the factory subframe, do not buy a 4-point H-brace since it requires the factory subframe, and instead install the GTSpec Front Lower Tie Brace: http://www.rallysportdirect.com/GTSp...2-2007-WRX-STI
Big-E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 09:22 PM   #3
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

That lower tie brace is a replacement for the jacking point and doesn't exactly connect the same points that a H-style brace would.

After researching it enough to realize all GD-chassis Imprezas came with the U-brace, I decided to leave mine in place. Not only did the Spec C come with a U-brace, it actually came with one with 2 additional mounting points (14 vs. 12). If I ever decide to lose mine, it'll be replaced with the HKS Kansei or Beatrush unit.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 12:11 AM   #4
Big-E
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 123843
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Connecticut
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Sedan SGM
Let LED's light your way!

Default

The lower tie brace does replace the OEM jacking plate and it ties in the forward inner mounting points for the control arms, which are a part of the crossmember and could use reinforcing in that area.

Only the USDM 2004 STI had the additional two mounting points at the crossmember to reinforce it with respect to the forward inner mounting points for the control arms.

The Spec-C did does in-fact have a subframe - see post #6 below for a shot from the Non-USDM FSM for reference.

The Beatrush subframe is $750+ and will not work if you have steel control arms or have aluminum control arms with rearward inner offset bushings (e.g. Whiteline ALK).

The Oswald Performance subframe will fit without any interference with the suspension, whether with OEM or offset rearward inner bushings, and most-likely will allow for almost any type of down-pipe configuration, without or with an external waste-gate blow-off.

Last edited by Big-E; 08-23-2014 at 12:15 PM. Reason: To clarify and correct content
Big-E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 06:22 AM   #5
A-man07
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 271525
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: BagEnd
Vehicle:
07 STi
424whp/382wtq GT3076

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-E View Post

The Oswald Performance subframe will fit without any interference with the suspension, whether with OEM or offset rearward inner bushings.
If I felt the need to replace the U-brace I would only use the Oswald subframe.
A-man07 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 10:29 AM   #6
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-E View Post
Only the 2004 STI had the additional two mounting points at the crossmember to reinforce it with respect to the forward inner mounting points for the control arms.

The Spec-C did not have a subframe to reduce front-end weight.
Both false; this is a rumor that has been perpetuated for years. All models have the subframe - this includes the Spec C and special-run models like the Type RA and RA-R. Since the Spec C was homologated with the 2 additional reinforcement points, it is highly unlikely that Subaru would have omitted the subframe even on the Spec C 16" wheel model (offered in 2006, and likely other years); this was the stripped down model with steel wheels, FHI brakes w/o ABS, manual rear windows, manual door locks and optional A/C. It was rarely advertised as it was intended for racing teams (the majority being Gr.N) that would be replacing many of the parts. Since the subframe would have been required for Gr.N, it would not have been removed.


Attached is a scan from my 2005 International-version FSM:


Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 08-15-2014 at 10:42 AM.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 11:05 AM   #7
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Here are a few shots showing the subframe was indeed homologated and used on the N12 (2006) car:


mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 01:30 PM   #8
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

My understanding is it's for crash protection, so if you like that, keep it. It really isn't intended in any way for structural rigidity (a big U shaped thing isn't exactly an optimal design for such things, nor is anything in front of the front suspension).
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 01:57 PM   #9
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

I can tell you that it absolutely does add rigidity by coupling the rear lca mount point to the crossmember. without it the bottom of the xmember is just floating out in space.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using NASIOC mobile app
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #10
Bikelok
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 254851
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Nor-Cal Bay Area
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx wagon 5mt
PSM

Default removed factory ubrace now have a question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
My understanding is it's for crash protection, so if you like that, keep it. It really isn't intended in any way for structural rigidity (a big U shaped thing isn't exactly an optimal design for such things, nor is anything in front of the front suspension).
This is my understanding as well. It's meant to "swing" the motor down and not back onto your lap in a front impact.

mrsaturn 7085, nice info!!!

Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
Bikelok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 02:31 PM   #11
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

It is partially for crash protection, yes.

I look at the U-brace in a different way. Imagine the brace with the front part (the section spanning the width of the radiator) removed. This would produce two beams running front to rear along the car. Each beam then has 4 bolts connected to the chassis and 1 bolt (2 on the Spec C) connected to the front crossmember. These beams also then bridge the large gap in the bottom of the wheel well, while locating the crossmember fore/aft to the chassis.

The RA-R used a 2-point brace (ST205104S020) between 2 bolts on the U-frame. I believe this was used rather than the H-style brace because it would have interfered with the transmission aero panel (added in 2006+ JDM models).

The SPT (H-style) 4-point brace (SOA8431070) uses 4 bolts and ties the U-frame to the rear transverse link mount.

Lastly, STi offered a 3-point brace (ST205104S000) that ties the U-frame to the jacking point. This only works on the jacking point of the 2005 and earlier model STi, if I'm not mistaken, as the 2006+ plate resembles the JDM WRX model, rather than the reinforced STi 2-piece unit, but I believe the USDM plate had some reinforcement added to the top side.

The jacking point actually had a number of revisions as well (the international service manual has a multitude of configurations). The brace that Big-E linked replaces this part and ties the front transverse link mounts together essentially making it a 3-point mount. It's a well designed brace in that it connects points that will affect wheel alignment, but with the subframe already pretty stout between these two points, I doubt it would reduce movement much as there likely isn't very much here to begin with. This brace will work if you decide to ditch the subframe, however - Beatrush offers a bar for this location, as well. I've got no reason to push Beatrush other than the fact that everything I've purchased from them has completely blown me away in terms of quality.

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 08-15-2014 at 02:46 PM.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 03:08 PM   #12
EvileyeZ88
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 233501
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairfax Va
Vehicle:
07AD 337/335SAXWAGON
99 outback sport

Default

I removed my U brace and replaced it with a Carbing subframe brace, never looked back.

Anyone wanna buy a U brace?

Brought to you in part by: My Thumbs
EvileyeZ88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 03:21 PM   #13
mukak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395068
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Irvine CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Vf34

Default

ok i took the car for a few twisties ( freeway on ramps ) and the car definitely feels more softer and twisty around the corners especially at 45-60 mph

guess i will be putting back the UBRACE and getting a 4 poing HBRACE ( ebay special )

any reviews or comments on the H BRACE from ebay?

or shoudl i get a NAME BRAND 4 point brace? and if so what kind?

and i appreciate all the feedback
mukak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 05:19 PM   #14
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

What have you done to the car otherwise? I can think of a lot better uses for the money than the H-brace...
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 05:43 PM   #15
mukak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395068
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Irvine CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Vf34

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
What have you done to the car otherwise? I can think of a lot better uses for the money than the H-brace...
suspension wise not much just Tein green lowering springs ( stock shocks ) Cusco rear adj sway bar, stock front sway bar and 17x8 2014 Wrx wheels and tires
mukak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2014, 11:42 PM   #16
Bikelok
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 254851
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Nor-Cal Bay Area
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx wagon 5mt
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mukak View Post
suspension wise not much just Tein green lowering springs ( stock shocks ) Cusco rear adj sway bar, stock front sway bar and 17x8 2014 Wrx wheels and tires
Oh boy, green Teins huh, look here:
Tein S-Tech FAQ:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1267918
Tein S-Tech reviews:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums//sho...d.php?t=523585

I don't want to change the subject of the post, but in case you don't know PLEASE look at the links.


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
Bikelok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 12:15 AM   #17
mukak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395068
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Irvine CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Vf34

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikelok View Post
Oh boy, green Teins huh, look here:
Tein S-Tech FAQ:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1267918
Tein S-Tech reviews:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums//sho...d.php?t=523585

I don't want to change the subject of the post, but in case you don't know PLEASE look at the links.


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
thnks for heads up.. i bought the car this way with stock shocks and green tein springs.... i am currently looking into coilovers...

and the car is a total grandpa mobile... i can push my wife toyota camry harder into corners
mukak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 02:55 AM   #18
Bikelok
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 254851
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Nor-Cal Bay Area
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx wagon 5mt
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mukak View Post
thnks for heads up.. i bought the car this way with stock shocks and green tein springs.... i am currently looking into coilovers...

and the car is a total grandpa mobile... i can push my wife toyota camry harder into corners
I'll just add that you may be used to the current ride height now and mistakenly install the next set up as low. In general Subarus do not like to be lowered without lots of other work to make it work right.
Keep the drop to no more than an inch from stock and you should be fine. Your car currently sits much lower than that.



Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
Bikelok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 05:58 PM   #19
mukak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395068
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Irvine CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Vf34

Default

i measured it today and it sits 14.2 inch front 14.0 inches in there rear from center of wheel to the fender lip
mukak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2014, 06:39 PM   #20
Bikelok
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 254851
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Nor-Cal Bay Area
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx wagon 5mt
PSM

Default

Stock US 2002 WRX is 15.59 sedan and 15.24 wagon.



Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
Bikelok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2014, 08:27 AM   #21
EvileyeZ88
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 233501
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fairfax Va
Vehicle:
07AD 337/335SAXWAGON
99 outback sport

Default

I ran the eBay h brace for about 2 years with out the u brace, I just made some spacers out of round stock and put them where the u brace would be.

Worked great, noticed a difference in stiffness

Brought to you in part by: My Thumbs
EvileyeZ88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2014, 09:00 PM   #22
_MADMIKE_
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 251743
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: C.V. Ca
Default

Just to add a data point.

'02 WRX, Ubrace bolts loose, car had sloppy steering response, steering wheel vibration at highway speeds.
'02 RS, Ubrace bolts loose, car had sloppy steering response/vague/lazy steering wheel return after turning.
'03 WRX Ubrace bolts loose, car had sloppy steering response, and a persistent knock retarding timing, one of the bolts under the rear plastic cover was no longer threaded in place.

Tightened bolts and all the above problems went away.

Also in the Service Manual there is a note to check suspension bolts every 30K miles. I now include subrame(front/rear) bolts into this.

If you feel no difference after removing your U brace, reinstall it and make sure all the bolts are torqued to the correct values, per mrsaturn7085 posting. You will feel a difference.
_MADMIKE_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2014, 11:01 AM   #23
mukak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395068
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Irvine CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Vf34

Default

so after driving without the UBRACE i noticed that car didnt handle as good, so I reinstalled it, took it for a drive and could tell the diff in handling right away

to any1 thinking about removing it for weight reduction its not worth it, unless u get an aftermarket brace to reinforce the bottom

my next move is to get an H BRACE, thinking about Cusco or whiteline or maybe just a simple cheapo EBAY brace

also another question, i have a 3 inch downpipe and a 3 inch HKS exhaust, will i have any clearance issues?
mukak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2014, 12:12 PM   #24
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mukak View Post
so after driving without the UBRACE i noticed that car didnt handle as good, so I reinstalled it, took it for a drive and could tell the diff in handling right away

to any1 thinking about removing it for weight reduction its not worth it, unless u get an aftermarket brace to reinforce the bottom

my next move is to get an H BRACE, thinking about Cusco or whiteline or maybe just a simple cheapo EBAY brace
Whiteline's is a GC8 brace IIRC. You can make it work, but an eBay brace will likely 'feel' the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mukak View Post
also another question, i have a 3 inch downpipe and a 3 inch HKS exhaust, will i have any clearance issues?
Doubtful but maybe? I'd probably buy a cheap-o eBay brace or one from a vendor with a good return policy because of this.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2014, 11:45 PM   #25
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

ok....hd cowl stays!!!!

i'll say that again....HD COWL STAYS!!!

they make a HUGE difference....and you can make some easy spacers to make ANY 'h' brace fit and work just fine

and add a one piece front strut bar and ya got the golden triangle


move the battery and get a lw front bumper beam and its SHOCKING how much nicer the car is to drive

once ya get rid of the junk tein springs, that is....oh..and the garbage stock front strut tops
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.