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Old 08-22-2014, 11:32 AM   #1
mukak
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Default doing donuts in AWD car

quick question.. is it safe to do donuts on dry pavement? and what about wet pavement?

how bad is it on the driveline?
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:37 AM   #2
D-rock240
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If you have to ask....you shouldn't do it. Get a RWD beater for that.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:38 AM   #3
cmiovino
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I would not do it on either.

Snow is ok, but that's about all I would push it. Dry is certainly a no-no and wet is still much more griper than snow.

You're putting all kinds of unnecessary wear/shock on the driveline, diffs, trans, etc.. even the engine to some extent. If you do attempt dry or wet donuts, be prepared for some major things to break.

I'm sure someone will chime in saying they've done them and didn't have any issues. I'm sure more wear was done and they haven't done them often. Those are the lucky ones.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:01 PM   #4
MRGierut013
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It's your car and you can do what you want with it. I don't do it in my car.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:05 PM   #5
bnp
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Krispy Kreme or Dunkin Donuts?
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:10 PM   #6
HinshawWRX
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Stop watching rally car's and ken block.

Also, good luck doing any sort of donut with your car.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:15 PM   #7
Gallo2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnp View Post
Krispy Kreme or Dunkin Donuts?
Dammit, beat me to it.

And the correct answer is Randy's donuts.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:23 PM   #8
Brent22
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Why?

I get the child-ish fun aspect of it but why pair a car designed for maximizing traction with an act intended to take advantage of insufficient traction?
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:25 PM   #9
Back Road Runner
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The gear package and even the axles have limited strength. It's not a matter of engine power at all either. It's all about shock loading which is a byproduct of getting and losing grip as you kind of energy lock (generate high inertial resistance) the other end of the system, aka the spinning engine. As the tires make and break traction as you're spinning or attempting to spin around, the variation of loading can generate very significant loading forces through the drivetrain and stress the axles, the diff gears, the transmission gears, and really anything linked in the system. The engine has a saving grace via the slippy clutch above a certain load force, but if you upgrade the clutch, this limit goes up and allows even higher stress within the system of parts. It is often best to be smooth with power delivery to minimize forces. It's not that sliding a car around is specifically bad, but you can generate much less stress by sticking to slipperier surfaces and minimize fluctuations by sticking to consistent surface types. A contrary example would be transitioning between gravel and asphalt where grip can change a good bit or even just on uneven or bumpy surfaces where the tire loading and subsequently grip level varies. Smooth is good as the engine power is comparatively very weak in terms of being capable of generating loading forces through the drivetrain.

At least you have a 6 speed transmission which does give you two benefits. One, the torque split is biased towards the rear which does help rotate the car significantly better than the even 50:50 of the 5-speed. The diff package also helps a good bit at providing more even torque between the tires making the car easier to control. However, the torsen diffs act like open diffs if grip is really low or if you lift a tire meaning it can in some cases operate very much like an open diff car with pretty messy power delivery between tires. You really only notice this in winter on snow and ice or in sport use with a suspension setup that likes to lift or at least heavily unload the inside tire in a corner. Two, the transmission is reasonably tough which means it can take at least some abuse. For what you'll generally do, it will likely hold up rather well. However, weak points are still the axles and you still aren't invisible to gear damage. The limit is just a lot higher than the 5-speed. You still want to avoid shock loading the drivetrain in order to keep stress and fatigue low to promote long transmission life.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:28 PM   #10
Extreme Turbo Systems
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Ill just leave this here....

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Old 08-22-2014, 12:38 PM   #11
Anubis80
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please don't, thanks
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:51 PM   #12
Gallo2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme Turbo Systems View Post
Ill just leave this here....

http://youtu.be/OWmDBzz8FgA?t=31s
There appears to be a significant amount of a white traction reducing substance on the ground. And no, I ain't talking about something Rick James snorted.

Mukak, just wait until you get the first snow day in Irvine, then give it a try. I'm right down the road so I'll help you set up a Gymkhana course.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:56 PM   #13
Brent22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallo2011 View Post
There appears to be a significant amount of a white traction reducing substance on the ground. And no, I ain't talking about something Rick James snorted.

Mukak, just wait until you get the first snow day in Irvine, then give it a try. I'm right down the road so I'll help you set up a Gymkhana course.
You So Cal guys and your "snow days" are just adorable.



Hope you have enough water. That's a nasty one, ain't it?
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:02 PM   #14
joek92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
The gear package and even the axles have limited strength. It's not a matter of engine power at all either. It's all about shock loading which is a byproduct of getting and losing grip as you kind of energy lock (generate high inertial resistance) the other end of the system, aka the spinning engine. As the tires make and break traction as you're spinning or attempting to spin around, the variation of loading can generate very significant loading forces through the drivetrain and stress the axles, the diff gears, the transmission gears, and really anything linked in the system. The engine has a saving grace via the slippy clutch above a certain load force, but if you upgrade the clutch, this limit goes up and allows even higher stress within the system of parts. It is often best to be smooth with power delivery to minimize forces. It's not that sliding a car around is specifically bad, but you can generate much less stress by sticking to slipperier surfaces and minimize fluctuations by sticking to consistent surface types. A contrary example would be transitioning between gravel and asphalt where grip can change a good bit or even just on uneven or bumpy surfaces where the tire loading and subsequently grip level varies. Smooth is good as the engine power is comparatively very weak in terms of being capable of generating loading forces through the drivetrain.

At least you have a 6 speed transmission which does give you two benefits. One, the torque split is biased towards the rear which does help rotate the car significantly better than the even 50:50 of the 5-speed. The diff package also helps a good bit at providing more even torque between the tires making the car easier to control. However, the torsen diffs act like open diffs if grip is really low or if you lift a tire meaning it can in some cases operate very much like an open diff car with pretty messy power delivery between tires. You really only notice this in winter on snow and ice or in sport use with a suspension setup that likes to lift or at least heavily unload the inside tire in a corner. Two, the transmission is reasonably tough which means it can take at least some abuse. For what you'll generally do, it will likely hold up rather well. However, weak points are still the axles and you still aren't invisible to gear damage. The limit is just a lot higher than the 5-speed. You still want to avoid shock loading the drivetrain in order to keep stress and fatigue low to promote long transmission life.
Does shock loading the drivetrain = cluctch kick?
Slippery surfaces are easier to donut. If you don't have snow, gravel and dirt/grass are also fun. However, wet or dry pavement creates incredible g-forces & #andijizzedinmypants feelz.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:06 PM   #15
Thatskipkid
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Let's not forget about starving the oil pickup if you're spinning fast enough. Spun bearings aren't fun.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:08 PM   #16
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Me in the snow. Got it out of my system, no need for more. Kind of neat how the whole car rotates around the inside tire though, different than the whipping around feeling of RWD.

http://youtu.be/Y2jCKE7Vwh8?list=UU2...F_td802s55r1Kg
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:10 PM   #17
Torontolegacy
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Dooo the doughnuts broo.

Chicks loves them.

And, they make you not only more attractive to women. But also make you smarter, taller, funnier and more likely to own a lion as a house cat.

DO IT.


Sent from my iPhone using NASIOC
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:14 PM   #18
blehhh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatskipkid View Post
Let's not forget about starving the oil pickup if you're spinning fast enough. Spun bearings aren't fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Mp0Qok6Ng



This is what we do in the snow, but there's always the risk of the above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JRm9CIdscE
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:18 PM   #19
Cojm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totallynotbeau View Post
Me in the snow. Got it out of my system, no need for more. Kind of neat how the whole car rotates around the inside tire though, different than the whipping around feeling of RWD.

http://youtu.be/Y2jCKE7Vwh8?list=UU2...F_td802s55r1Kg

Note: Link goes to a playlist, after subaru video cute bunny appears.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:18 PM   #20
Brent22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blehhh View Post
in the following days...

"FS: Like new STI - $28k OBO"
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:47 PM   #21
Gallo2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent22 View Post
You So Cal guys and your "snow days" are just adorable.



Hope you have enough water. That's a nasty one, ain't it?
Yeah, low blow, Brent, low blow.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:53 PM   #22
SpamBot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mukak View Post
quick question.. is it safe to do donuts on dry pavement? and what about wet pavement?

how bad is it on the driveline?
Has NASIOC truly sunk to this level of stupidity?



Oh, wait, it did that some time ago!

Carry on!
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:13 PM   #23
Web Foot STi
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One more thing to consider. Every winter when people start doing frosted donuts we get a bunch of posts about power steering problems. You cannot hold full steering lock for more than a few seconds without frying the pump. Because of this I back off the wheel ~1" from full lock while parallel parking...
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:25 PM   #24
Stanley
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Do it on the bridge, yo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAAPLGcSEfk

Serious answer - scoobynuts can be a hoot in the snow if you don't hit anything. Trying them on dry pavement is asking for busted pieces parts.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:30 PM   #25
white guys wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
Do it on the bridge, yo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAAPLGcSEfk

Serious answer - scoobynuts can be a hoot in the snow if you don't hit anything. Trying them on dry pavement is asking for busted pieces parts.
agreed. Do it on the bridge. Make sure you burry the needle also and use mobile 1 while doing it.
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