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Old 10-28-2002, 03:17 PM   #1
skywalker
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Cool Link Problems or Hear-Say. Post Away...

I am tired of all this hear-say about problems with the Link.

People tell me this or that and about 75% ot the time people have heard false information. This world is based on false information, so you don't have to go around hearing every single thing you hear, even if that person is reputable. Do your research and figure it out on your own.

I want to hear from everyone, wether you own a Link or not (tell us wether you own or not). What are people's first impressions when they here Link Programmable tuning, good or bad? What reason do you have? What problems have you heard about? What bugs are in the software? Aything you have heard or read about the Link, bad or good, post away...

I just believe the Link is a good product and was treated poorly from the start. Fire suit ON... Let's go...
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Old 10-28-2002, 03:34 PM   #2
davidm_sh
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hehe, brave man .

For the most part anything and everything I have heard bad about the Link is true.

Stuff I have experienced first hand or have friends who have experienced first hand (me in their car when it happens)
-Fuel cut while cruising on interstate

-TPS problem (goto 0% during WOT run = tip-in fuel settings used = BIG BACKfire - this problem was fixed with firmware update I think)

-when you clear your log your master fuel setting decrements by one. Still IS NOT fixed even with a patch that said fixed it!!

-overrun fuel/computer activity does not activate under 2500rpm = running VERY rich under 2500rpm when foot off the gas coasting in gear = shorter life span of O2 sensors

-Does not power the factory front O2 sensor properly = replace sensor if you ever need to use it again.

-warm starts in the (60-70F coolant temp range) do cause the idle to be lumpy and wander but it only lasts for a minute or two.

-bad idle - Mine was REALLY crappy with a Map I got from sponagule but after a lot of playing, reading (on this board - Thanks to Chav) I got a VERY nice idle. But a lot of people complain and have problems with it.

That is about all I can think of personally. I guess I have experienced all the problems 1st or 2nd hand [heh]. Also I am the type of guy who likes to tune and tweak so I had my laptop open almost everyday for the first 2 months or so while driving fine tuning things like A/F and occasionally timing.

I am sure I have forgotten or not experienced some other things though. All-in-all it's not a bad product but it's bugs are going to REALLy hurt it with all the newer/better alternatives popping up lately.
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Old 10-28-2002, 03:53 PM   #3
skywalker
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Thanks for the reply. Brave, yeah right... crazy is more like it...

You are using the WRXLink correct?

First thing I will say is the Link Plus does not have these problems that you have stated.

The WRXLink and Link Plus both take a while to tune for idle. Like Chav suggested in an earlier thread you need to lower you Clamp in order to get it to run clean at idle. You also have to play around with a few other settings to get it to idle smooth. I would say the hardest thing to tune is the idle, but I would say that is true on almost any standalone engine management unit.

As for your problems I am glad you stated them. Keep them coming...
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Old 10-28-2002, 03:54 PM   #4
8Complex

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The main thing I don't like is the scale that is used for adjustment (not even duty cycle... duty cycle in a scale of 0-255! and a base timing number you have to add in?). Beyond that, I think it's a great unit with great potential and the fact that a PnP unit is on the market makes it even more attractive to quite a few people.

Bill - Are you selling them, working for a shop that sells them, etc? I never did get the story out of you, but I'm fairly sure something is up there...
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Old 10-28-2002, 04:07 PM   #5
skywalker
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8,

Pm'ed you, also I-Speed USA sells and tunes them...
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Old 10-28-2002, 06:35 PM   #6
Midwayman
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Well, I have a link plus and havent run into any problems that werent my own fault.

Scratch that... When my laptop looses connection to the LINK I have to shut down PC link in order to reconnect. Doesnt happen often, but its the *only* thing that hasnt been my poor tuning/ignorance.
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Old 10-28-2002, 07:03 PM   #7
skywalker
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Midwayman,

Yeah, I have that same problem from time to time, though I have a USB to Serial connector, and that gives me enough problems already.
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Old 10-28-2002, 08:37 PM   #8
davidm_sh
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Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
Thanks for the reply. Brave, yeah right... crazy is more like it...

You are using the WRXLink correct?

First thing I will say is the Link Plus does not have these problems that you have stated.
Well I was under the assumption that the WRX plug-n-play unit was a Link "plus". The plus being knock-correction and a couple of other things? Maybe I am wrong [eh]. I also had the V1.3 Link board and was running the latest PCLink software on my laptop.

Like I said before, after a while I got the idle REALLY nice. I mean I could run the idle as lean as 15.x:1 and it would be fine... it was just a tad more touchy on varying degrees of hot starts is all.
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Old 10-28-2002, 09:53 PM   #9
Impreza25RS
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Does the Link require you to keep the lap top in the car and connected at all times? This was one of those things I was always wondering about for security purposes. I owuld imagine that everything is saved in the Link itself but im not positive. Glad your here to answer q's about the Link skywalker because this is the next upgrade for my RS-T. Will this work properly in a 98 (still plug and play?) and when you install it how much tuning needs to be done before the car is drivable? Thanks again.
Kyle
98RS-T Owners UNITE!
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Old 10-28-2002, 11:50 PM   #10
8Complex

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Quote:
Originally posted by Impreza25RS
Does the Link require you to keep the lap top in the car and connected at all times? This was one of those things I was always wondering about for security purposes.
No ECU requires this. It'd just be silly.
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Old 10-29-2002, 02:35 AM   #11
RimRockaz
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Bill,

I want to setup an appointment so you can take a look at the link on mine, and if you can setup an appointment at ATP dyno, that would be the best.

Please PM me w/ the details,

Cal

btw, your pm box is full
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Old 10-29-2002, 02:41 AM   #12
skywalker
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Quote:
Well I was under the assumption that the WRX plug-n-play unit was a Link "plus". The plus being knock-correction and a couple of other things? Maybe I am wrong [eh].


The Link Plus and the WRXLink are to totally different units. The WRXLink is for the WRX only where as the Link Plus is made for just about any car on the road.

The Link plus does NOT require you to have a laptop in your car all the time. Though I have one with me all the time, guess i am a little physco when it comes to tuning... My roommates see me every night pull up, sit in the driveway and tune for the next 30 minutes. The reason i tune so much, I am trying to different octane mixes and trying to figure out the optimal level of gas one should be using. I will say 94 is damn nice...

The Link Plus's (not WRXLink) come with a wiring harness that will plug into your stock wiring loom. As for a 98 I am 90% sure we can make one for that year. I will find out and let everyone know.

QUESTION? Who would be interested in a Link Plus for the WRX?

This will end up costing about the same amount if not cheaper and come with extra features? (Launch Control, Anti-Lag, 2 extra outputs based on RPM or MAP levels.) Plus it will not have all the problems the WRXLink has.

As for a base MAP for the RS-T I have pm'ed you.

~Bill
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Old 10-29-2002, 03:15 AM   #13
christoph1371
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my main problem is that my tuner doesn'y ever want to tune my car:monkey:
why is my car always last


but serioulsy.
fuel cut bugs me (probably cured by tuning)
why do some cars with the link achieve more boost than others... i haven't figured that one out yet
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Old 10-29-2002, 04:15 AM   #14
PHATsuby
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skywalker, can you PM me some quotes on a link-plus? do they make one for my 2001 Legacy GT (BE)? also would it be smart to get it while NA and learn how to use it now because i plan on going turbo in the spring and i dont want to blow my engine up, which would no doubt suck, and leave my dad the opportunity to say "i told you so" and then tell me how i destroyed a perfectly fine car all because i like to love my vehicle. any info would be great. thanks
Ben
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Old 10-29-2002, 11:29 AM   #15
2MANYCARS
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davidm_sh,
I also experienced fuel cut cruising on the interstate, is there a remedy for it?

Skywalker,
What is your schedule looks like? I am thinking about inviting you to a trip to NJ, and help me and my first-time-ECU-tuner to tune my Link. Everything will be paid for. Let me know.
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Old 10-29-2002, 11:59 AM   #16
skywalker
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2MANYCARS,

You can hard wire in the fuel line for the WRXLink and that will fix the problem. A few poeple have done this on the board, not sure who you can talk to about that. A few poeple have doen that and fixed the problems they had.

Also will be PM'ing you about the NJ trip.


PHATsuby (Ben),

I will be PM'ing you more info.

I can also be contacted at wknose@i-speedusa.com
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Old 10-29-2002, 12:43 PM   #17
davidm_sh
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skywalker - News to me. I was under the impression the Link Plug-n-play was basically a link plus with the wiring harness already built in . Learn somthing new everyday I guess [heh].

2MANYCARS - I personally cured the interstate stalling issue by getting a UTEC . But I know pace on this board and clubwrx did the hardwire with good results. Now he just gets more fuel pressure and noise at idle = throws idle off a bit (but can be tuned out), etc... I road trip WAY too much to worry about somthing like that which is why I opted to get rid of the Link. I also heard, from Mike at vividracing, that Link has just released a software or maybe it's a (send your Link in to get new firmware flashed onto it) fix that addresses this problem. He said he would let us know how things go for him from Phoenix to Vegas/Sema show.
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Old 10-29-2002, 01:19 PM   #18
skywalker
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That is right Link did just release a software upgrade. Supposedly addresses a few software bugs. It can be downloaded from carmodifications.com also.
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Old 10-29-2002, 01:35 PM   #19
Midwayman
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Its my understanding that the WRX ecu board is the POSSUM LINK product. Link PLUS is the 2nd generation non car specific ecu. Different boards, etc.

FWIW a legacy probably uses the same harness and ecu if its running a ej25.

Oh, and a new version of PClink was released a few days ago. Download it if you havent
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Old 10-29-2002, 02:40 PM   #20
JenisonWRX
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44s is the board ...

Never got a random fuel cut

The only bad idling I had was before I started tuning it. Now its rock solid in all conditions.

its not rocket science ... yet it is ... its a weird hobby we have
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Old 10-29-2002, 03:00 PM   #21
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Other than the fuel cut issue while hwy cruising my Link has been very good to me. I've heard that they can be tough to get to idle but brainstorm set me up pretty nice. I did recieve a new Chip from Link that relaces one of the main chips on the board. Changes the point @ which the pump speed changes from 10%-30%. Will let everyone know if this fixes the issue. Thanks.

Mike
VR
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Old 10-29-2002, 04:46 PM   #22
2MANYCARS
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Bill,
Do you know which wire is the fuel wire? I mean how do you hard wire it? Thanks again.

Anthony
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Old 10-29-2002, 05:16 PM   #23
WRC 555
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I've had the Link Plus on my car for over 5 months now, 3 of those months with the turbo kit on. I never had any idling problems. I used to get random hesitations and found out that there were some rich spots that the EJ25 didnt like at certain RPM points(specially at 4000rpm).

Problems:
  • Everytime I change some fuel/timing settings and store them, the Master Fuel drops by one. I've gotten used to that so I always add one extra point before storing. I did have the latest software as well, just found out about the new one so we'll see if that fixes it.
  • When I have 'fuel cut' on decel checked 'ON' during partial throttle (15-20%) it seems to cut fuel and the car feels VERY jerky specially in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear. But when fuel cut is not checked the car runs very smooth. Why is TPS set to 10 when the throttle is closed? I know its supposed to be but why is that?

I would like to run with fuel cut on decel so I can get a better gas mileage and be easier on the spark plugs. I just dont like the jerky feeling

Overall though, I am pleased with MYLink Like skywalker, I have a laptop in my car all the time and love to tune every once in a while. Of coarse I have the air/fuel mixture tuned with a wideband, but its cool to see how timing plays a big role when you run 91 octane and 94 octane.

Also if any of you are considering a boost control solenoid, I purchased the 2 port that Link offers. I believe it was around $250. This solenoid is simply amazing, very accurate and quick in response. I've never spiked more than 2kPa at what my boost limit is set to (knock on wood). It may be pricey, but its cheaper than hitting 20psi when your expecting 7psi

Last edited by WRC 555; 10-29-2002 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:29 AM   #24
Andrew
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I just wanted to add that I am using the Link Plus, tuned by skywalker, and this is on an automatic and am pushing 10psi and there is absolutely no problems using an aftermarket ECU with a 4EAT.
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Old 10-30-2002, 05:13 PM   #25
pace
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I don't know what unfounded heresay and rumors you are referring to. Like David, everything I have heard bad about the Link turned out to be true. And some. I know for a fact that many people have experienced some or all of the issues I have, including but not limited to; davidm_sh, Phast, JaMa, WRXThis, vividracing.

I've personally experienced many of the same problems as David listed, particularly the fuel cut bug which resulted in me hardwiring my pump because Link flat out refused to implement a hardware fix (although it looks like they now have a software fix for TPS pump-duty threshold, but I don't see how this could fix my particular issue).

One of the biggest problems for me was attaining a smooth idle that didn't result in plumes of black smoke from my tailpipe. I was essentially running David's idle which was pretty smooth, but way too rich on my car for me to be happy. I reverted to Sponaugle's much leaner idle and tuned from there (still rich enough to turn my tailpipes black after a couple of hours).

Other problems, some of which I'm sure are tuning issues but I have not been able to resolve:

1. Still have significant hesitation off closed throttle. I have tried absolutely everything I can think of to cure this. Going leaner at idle actually seems to have a more positive effect. It's not as bad now as when I was running the richer idle.

2. Terrible 'jerkiness' when slamming the throttle closed or alternating from closed-open-closed.

3. Occasional stutter when at WOT. Logs show no knock. One time I ran the full length of a drag strip with the car constantly stuttering like this. I can only assume it is some kind of misfire but I don't know what is causing it as it is very intermittent.

4. Link will detect a knock event but occasionally does not appear to pull timing as configured to do.

5. Screwy readings in my logs occasionally. Eg. While holding WOT I might see something like the following for TPS: 101, 101, 101, 80, 76, 101, 101, 101.

6. 100% useless lambda tuning. I think it would be more useful to have closed-loop tuning BELOW a specific RPM, not above (when the pseudo-wideband and the narrowband both become pretty useless).

7. AC load anticipation function works fine when you switch the AC on, but they need a similar function for when you turn OFF load. e.g. My RPMs soar when I switch off my AC and sometimes only a throttle blip will restore normal idle.

8. Idle has to be stupid rich to gain any semblance of smoothness.

9. I want the ability to tap into a wideband O2 for logging and closed-loop tuning.


I will steer clear of PossumBourne/Link products in the future. Either go with the UTEC which offers the same functionality and likely better stability, for less money. Or the TEC3 if your budget allows for a real solution.

-Pace

[Edit: I'm using the 44S (WRX)]

Last edited by pace; 10-30-2002 at 10:44 PM.
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