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Old 10-29-2002, 11:02 AM   #1
Murray
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Default management help for jspec EJ20T into 2.2L

i am soon to be purchasing a j-spec EJ20T from a Legacy, but it will not include an ECU. i will still have my EJ22 ECU though, is there any way i can use this ECU with this motor? the car is to be a daily driver/autoX car, the only mod im gonna do is exhaust.
im wondering if this ECU can be wired to this motor or not? what will i need for fuel/spark control?
would it just be wiser to have the people who get me the motor try to find me an ECU as well?
any help is greatly appreciated. thank you.

Murray
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Last edited by Murray; 10-29-2002 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 10-29-2002, 11:52 AM   #2
Jaxx
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the ecu is almost compleatly usless w/o the harness
my guess is that the motor you are lookin at is out of a legacy RS so an EJ20G ..i have one .. and still have not figured out how to drive it

the simplest seems to be that several sand rail shops are using this motor and running a link+ .. they sell setups compleate with the harness prewired..

there are a few people working on simmilar projects over in aftermarket force induction
-j
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Old 10-29-2002, 12:18 PM   #3
Murray
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he motor looks like it comes with the harness..

any idea on where i can get the best deal on a Link+?
i wont need full adjustability or anyhtring special like that..this is why i hope to get the ECU/harness for the motor as well.
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Old 10-29-2002, 01:03 PM   #4
Jaxx
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if it is the compleate harness.. there was an ecu for sale in private last week cheep...

you will still have to lengthen the harness to get it to fit ... also your car is ODB2 .. whcih causes lots more proublems
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Old 10-30-2002, 10:58 PM   #5
ImportInvasion
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Default Re: management help for jspec EJ20T into 2.2L

Quote:
Originally posted by Murray
i am soon to be purchasing a j-spec EJ20T from a Legacy, but it will not include an ECU. i will still have my EJ22 ECU though, is there any way i can use this ECU with this motor? the car is to be a daily driver/autoX car, the only mod im gonna do is exhaust.
im wondering if this ECU can be wired to this motor or not? what will i need for fuel/spark control?
would it just be wiser to have the people who get me the motor try to find me an ECU as well?
any help is greatly appreciated. thank you.

Murray
Murray, so you decided to keep your L??? Good choice! You can definately use your EJ22 ECU to run the EJ20G engine(from the jspec legacy). What you will need to do is use the all the wiring, throttle body and some other sensors from your EJ22 on the EJ20. They will bolt on. That will get you up and running, then if you find yourself running rich (because of the larger injectors of the EJ20), then you can get a fuel controller.
Check out my web site for some more info on the wiring...

If you decide against that, i can sell you my EJ20G ecu from a jspec legacy for cheap(er then a Link).

Noah
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Old 10-30-2002, 11:26 PM   #6
Murray
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wouldi have any troubles putting a non OBD2 motor in an OBD2 car with an non OBD 2 ECU?...

i kinda wanna keep the CEL off and make sure it works for errors...

i will check out that link tomorrow when i have time.
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Old 10-31-2002, 02:08 PM   #7
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Murray, I have a post about that in the AFI forum (no responses yet). But I was also wondering about the possibility of putting a non OBD-II engine into an OBD-II car and running it under OBD-II.

-Jon
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Old 10-31-2002, 02:30 PM   #8
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the motor shouldnt have many more or less sensors..its EFI, so logically its got a cam and crank position sensor, my car has a MAF sensor, this one probly ususes a MAP.
then theres ECT(engine coolant temp), A/C System PSi, knock sensors, TPS sensor, all those should be on teh EJ20G as well as the EJ22
same with pre and post cat O2 sensors.
engine code for the motor im buying is EJ20GDX2CE..was mounted to a trans w/ code Tz102ZBZAA (or 2AA, not sure)
Veh. # was BS5-046090

i dont see the problem of running OBD2 on this motor, fuel delivery will be wrong, but an SAFC can correct that. then boost, my ECU wont know what to do when it see's boost on the MAP sensor..(i believe my car has MAP and MAF, but only uses MAF for determining air charge, MAP is used for vehicle load)
how would spark timing be different from one motor to the other..actually the EJ20G is missing ignition coils, if mine can be used, i can get a new one for $40..

if anyone knows anything more about this, please feel free to post your knowledge..i'd really like to hear it!
Murray
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Old 10-31-2002, 03:31 PM   #9
ImportInvasion
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One of the sensors that is not on any of the EJ20G's i have seen that you will probubly need for OBD-II is the Exhaust Gas Recirc valve (EGR).

I am kind of confused on how you want to control your new engine. If you use your current ecu (the OBD-II EJ22 ecu) to control the EJ20G, you *should* be fine when it comes to emissions/OBD-II check. If this is what you plan to do, you will have to use the EJ22 ecu, all the wiring, and most of the sensors from the EJ22. Your only problem will be the EGR valve, which is not found on the EJ20G, but is required for OBD-II (i think). I have not been able to figure out how to connect this valve/sensor to the EJ20G manifold yet, so it throws a CEL.

However, if you plan to use the EJ20G's own ecu, then you will have a problem with the OBD-II...because the EJ20G is an OBD-I ecu (i think). So i can't imagine how you would wire that in to work with OBD-II. Altho im sure it can it can be done if you have the $$$$.

You can take a look here to clear up your engine and tranny id.
http://www.rrunracing.com/subaru_codes.htm

noah
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Old 10-31-2002, 03:43 PM   #10
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I forget, could someone remind me of exactly where the EGR valve is at, what it taps into etc? Depending upon the location, it may be as simple as having the it tapped for the sensor...

Here is another fun scenario: take the USDM WRX ecu and wire it in and control the EJ20G. This is kind of what I was getting at in another post. This keeps the engine swap cheap(er) and the ecu OBD-II.

-Jon
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Old 10-31-2002, 04:22 PM   #11
Murray
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i believe i can figure a way to use EGR operation on this motor..itsa computer controlled solenoid that opens and allows exhaust to flow into the intake manifold so there is less fresh-air charge entering hte cylinders, which reduces cylinder temperature because the combustion is cooler due to less oxygen.
i believe i can get the EJ22 programmed to ignore EGR system..i can talk with my old teacher about this, he's basically the smartest automotive diagnosis technition in the Eastern US.
im still yet to decide how i want to run this motor.. i would like to keep OBDII working as best it can..if the old EJ20G doesnt use EGR operation, then maybe i can make it think it has EGR operation so it doesnt throw the code.
Murray
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Old 10-31-2002, 04:31 PM   #12
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Stimpy..

the EGR solenoid is on the left side of the engine, it will either be in the exhaust manifold somewhere, or there will be a hose from teh exhasut tract going up to the intake manifold..the solenoid (left of engine) has 2 wires, ones Yellow with red tracer and one green with black tracerthat soon becomes a solid green wire which attaches to ground.
(according to my wire diagram for my 97 EJ22)
i think the late model EJ20T ECU option sounds like it may work..i will have to pic upa wire diagram for it sometime soon to check it out.
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Old 10-31-2002, 06:03 PM   #13
Jaxx
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dam i had a page that explained the engine and trannsmission codes from the looks it is more probblay Tz102ZB2AA

import invasion .. intersting comment on your engine ..

there are 2 versions of ej20G 89-93 one at 200 ps and one a 220ps past 93 may not be a G
...and both are 8.5 to one compression

look at this page
link

murry did you realize that tranny is an auto..

Last edited by Jaxx; 10-31-2002 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 10-31-2002, 07:09 PM   #14
Murray
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yes i realized it was from a motor with an auto Trans..(trans not included)
so i will have to remove hte flex-plate and bolt on a WRX flywheel/clutch assembly.

still trying to figure out what to do about the EGR system if i go with my EJ22 ECU to run this motor. then i guess i will also need a higher flowing Fuel pump and an S-AFC for more precise fuel control.
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Old 10-31-2002, 08:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
so i will have to remove hte flex-plate and bolt on a WRX flywheel/clutch assembly.
Murray, the type of clutch you use depends on the tranny. If you use your L's tranny like I did, then want to get a clutch for the 2.5RS. I got one from Exedy, it will hold a ton of horsepower. But you can't use a WRX clutch on a non-turbo tranny. I think the flywheels are that same. I know the bolt patterns are the same on the L, RS, WRX, legacy turbo, but im not sure about the "thickness" of the turbo flywheels??
..im sure you guys know all this but just making sure.

noah
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Old 10-31-2002, 09:50 PM   #16
Murray
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i was going to replace my current clutch with an Exedy clutch/lightened Flywheel soon as well..the clutch holds up good you say?
the one i can get a decent price on say its roughly 30% stronger over stock..think thats enough to handle 200 HP?
i think im still planning on getting hte flywheel, but im not sure..dependso nthe total cost of this project.
also, anyone know of a way to convert my cable-clutch to a hydraulic clutch type linkage? or is this too much to get into just to make the pedal a little softer? just curious.

no one knows how to eliminate the EGR system from the computer or of a way to fool the ECU to thinking hte EGR is operative when its really not?
Murray
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Old 10-31-2002, 10:58 PM   #17
ImportInvasion
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Quote:
..the clutch holds up good you say?
Yea the Exedy clutch is holding up very well, it is a little harsh on the engagement though. I guess that is to be expected with that much clamping force.

You say its 30% stronger then the stock one...is that 2.5rs stock or L stock? I dont know if there is a real difference...but i would think so. If it is 30% stronger then the RSs, it should be fine. Its easier on your tranny if you get a little bit of slip.

Quote:
no one knows how to eliminate the EGR system from the computer or of a way to fool the ECU to thinking hte EGR is operative when its really not?
Im going to try taking the EGR off my EJ18 and just plug it into the wiring harness, without actually setting it up, to see if that gets rid of the CEL.
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Old 11-01-2002, 10:34 AM   #18
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Murray, there is a post I brought back from the dead regarding the cable to hydraulic conversion. It is in the transmission forum and should be a couple days back. I'm hopefully going to be tackling that in the next few weeks.

-Jon
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:36 PM   #19
Jaxx
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primitive is a good resorce and sells the parts you need ...
also things like lightened fly wheels and copper 4-6 puck clutches

http://www.writerguy.com/primitive/

-j

at this point ... i think that i will buy a compleate lightened fly wheel + act clutch setup from them i have considerd keeping the cable... vs hydrolic .. i personally like the rapid disengagement of the cable clutch
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:45 PM   #20
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Some have said that the cable clutch doesn't offer smooth disengagement with the heavier pressure plates. Guess you can always try the bigger clutch setup and if it doesn't work, then upgrade.

-Jon
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Old 11-01-2002, 02:26 PM   #21
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i read wac's post i thought the problem was smooth engagement .. .lots of shudder ... espically when cold

i need to talk to richard buckner .. he still has a cable clutch in his rally car..
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Old 11-01-2002, 02:52 PM   #22
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Sorry, that's what I meant. I was just thinking backwards.

-Jon
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Old 11-01-2002, 06:58 PM   #23
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the clutch they were referring to was for 93-01 Impreza.
not sure on if it was for RS or L..?

i will have to look into the cable to hydraulic conversion..if its cheap enough, i will do it. i think im gonna buy an old legacy just for the rear brakes and a few other little bits. you can get em for well under 1000 on ebay!!! amazing

lemme know if that EGR fooling trick works..if so, thats whati will do!

Murray
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Old 11-01-2002, 07:04 PM   #24
Murray
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the clutch they were referring to was for 93-01 Impreza.
not sure on if it was for RS or L..?

i will have to look into the cable to hydraulic conversion..if its cheap enough, i will do it. i think im gonna buy an old legacy just for the rear brakes and a few other little bits. you can get em for well under 1000 on ebay!!! amazing

lemme know if that EGR fooling trick works..if so, thats whati will do!

Murray
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Old 11-02-2002, 03:20 AM   #25
ImportInvasion
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Quote:
Originally posted by stimpy
Some have said that the cable clutch doesn't offer smooth disengagement with the heavier pressure plates. Guess you can always try the bigger clutch setup and if it doesn't work, then upgrade.
Jon, yea it is definately harsh engagment with a heavy pressure plate on the cable clutch. Its not too bad once its warm though. I honestly dont know how much better it would be with a hydraulic clutch.
noah
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