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Old 10-30-2002, 02:25 PM   #1
SpeedRacer-X
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Talking Latest UTEC Dyno Plots

HP and TQ
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:28 PM   #2
SpeedRacer-X
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Another
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:32 PM   #3
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And a pretty cool one
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:32 PM   #4
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Why do these all say "Flywheel ..." ?

Are these corrected for drivetrain losses?

What's your setup? It looks like you've got a lot of lag but power still falls off at high RPM.
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:35 PM   #5
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What are your mods?
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:38 PM   #6
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I disagree about the lag, and as far as Fly Wheel, thats what all the DynoPaks say, it is wheel HP though.

And last, my Beast of Burden

Shawn
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedRacer-X
I disagree about the lag, and as far as Fly Wheel, thats what all the DynoPaks say, it is wheel HP though.
OK, lag is subjective, but you've obviously got a bigger turbo. You are running 20psi and don't reach that until 3700rpm. Why is power still falling off above 6000 rpm? I can see that you are tapering boost, was this a conservative approach reccomended by TurboXS?
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Old 10-30-2002, 02:48 PM   #8
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Actually, now that I llok at it some more, you start tapering boost at 5000 rpm but power doesn't start falling off until 6000 rpm. What's going on here?
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Old 10-30-2002, 03:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by D_REX
Actually, now that I llok at it some more, you start tapering boost at 5000 rpm but power doesn't start falling off until 6000 rpm. What's going on here?
You can taper boost and reduce torque while still maintaining or increasing HP.

HP=Ft-lbs(rpm)/5252


All dynapacs say "flywheel" hp on the chart. There is a box under the dyno plot that says "TCF" if that number is greater than 1, a correction has been applied to show a closer to flywheel number. In this case the TCF says 1.1, which is to say that the numbers shown are actually 10% above what was at the wheel.

At TXS we only use a TCF of 1, as i have no idea what the true drive train loss is on a WRX.

-Nathan
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Old 10-30-2002, 04:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by nmyeti


You can taper boost and reduce torque while still maintaining or increasing HP.

HP=Ft-lbs(rpm)/5252


All dynapacs say "flywheel" hp on the chart. There is a box under the dyno plot that says "TCF" if that number is greater than 1, a correction has been applied to show a closer to flywheel number. In this case the TCF says 1.1, which is to say that the numbers shown are actually 10% above what was at the wheel.

At TXS we only use a TCF of 1, as i have no idea what the true drive train loss is on a WRX.

-Nathan
Nathan,
I had at first assumed that his power falling off was due to boost tapering. After I noticed that he had been tapering his boost, at a fairly constant rate, since well before the point where power started to fall off I responded somewhat confused.

Shawn,
So your making 290 WHP on race gas? Please share your setup with us.

Thanks,
Dustin
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Old 10-31-2002, 03:05 PM   #11
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Wow! From the looks of that torque curve, that car is anything but subtle. Kind of kicks in the backside just past three grand, eh? Have you put enough miles on it to see if the abrupt torque delivery is effecting your cornering ability? Are you going to try and flatten out the torque delivery?

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Old 10-31-2002, 03:33 PM   #12
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I ran it in Chattanooga's Auto-X this last weekend and placed 1st in SM, though that really means nothing as there are much better drivers than me out there, it was close, less than 1/2 second between me and 2nd. Gotta give him credit, he was on street tires as well. Damn good driver is all I have to say, he would have got me if we had another run.

During Auto-X the car is awsome. I plan on playing with the maps somewhat to get a better spool and power delivery, and there is a set of headers on the way that should help things out spool and mid-range wise.

As she sit's now that Torque is VERY controlable under throttle. Drifting is easy as is comming out of the corners under throttle. Going to install so more go fast goodies now:-).

Shawn
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Old 10-31-2002, 03:44 PM   #13
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What kind of fuel were you using? The reason I ask is that you're running 21 PSI boost with almost zero enrichment, except at the torque peak, were your A/F dips down to about 11.7:1. I've never seen a WRX A/F graph like yours before.
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Old 10-31-2002, 03:59 PM   #14
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Jon, you are very observant . C16, the answer to detonation. I have a street map for 93 Pump as well, with a very simialr fuel chart, only we keep it ~10.5-1:1 instead of 12+:1.


Shawn
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Old 11-01-2002, 02:39 AM   #15
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Please post a mod list. This looks like a VF-30 setup for racegas right?

Here's the one from TurboXS with their unichip stage 4 on pump gas:



and yours:



So your making 10 more hp and 11lb more tq with C16 instead of pump gas and 21psi instead of their 17 . Their tq curve seems to last a little longer.

Most headers I've seen are moving the curve even further to the right. Who makes the ones your looking at?

-Jonathan

Last edited by mynew02; 11-01-2002 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 11-01-2002, 03:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon [in CT]
What kind of fuel were you using? The reason I ask is that you're running 21 PSI boost with almost zero enrichment, except at the torque peak, were your A/F dips down to about 11.7:1. I've never seen a WRX A/F graph like yours before.
Hey Jon...

Those readings were probably measured with the 02 in the tailpipe. Mine looked similar to his when having it measured from there. I think the 02 is slower to react:



-Jonathan
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:36 PM   #17
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Ok, mods are:
VF-34
STI Injectors
255 LPH Fuel Pump
Hacked Air Box
TXS full Exhaust w/Race pipe
M2 Up-Pipe
TXS TMI

Redo your math bro, it's off a bit. And yes, I am putting out less power than TXS has been, thus they are comming here to tune my car and some others. Also, which do YOU think is safer on the motor for those HP levels, non-det C16 or crappy pump. Have you considered that everyone has pretty much switched to winter gas at the pump by now, did you know that can suck up 30HP right there?

There are several things that could be done that will bump those numbers quite a bit higher, as in a set of real plugs instead of the crappy ones I'm running, underdrive pulley, and the header I'm not at liberty to talk about until it's in production.

However, I fully expect to hit ~300HP on Pump at the end of november and who knows on C16, before the header. There is also a big difference in the way I tuned my street map compared to TXS, for one I chose higher boost with less timing. It seems that their approach of more timing and less boost will cure several things, as well as provide more power.

The maps I have posted as well as the dyno charts are for comparison sake, and as a learning experience. Why don't you fork out some cash and do the same, to help us all. It seems so easy to knock someones power outputs, yet where are yours, what are you contributing to this community? I've done over 100 dyno pulls, posted maps and findings and have helped ANYONE who has asked thus far as tuning goes and what I have personally learned.

Just to clarify, I don't post any of this to brag, I post it to share the info. Yes there is much room for improvement, did I say otherwise? Regardless, I look forward to seeing why I am not putting out the power that I should be. I'm gonna do a leakdown sometime next week when I change my plugs just to make sure I'm not missing something.

Shawn
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Old 11-01-2002, 02:38 PM   #18
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Thanks for the info Shawn. Since I have a VERY similiar setup as you (VF-30 instead of 34, and Vishnu UP instead of M2) I will be curious to see how our charts compare. I am going to TXS Dec. 7th for a tune and will be doing 93 and C16 as well.

The only thing I'm disappointed with my setup right now is playing with the boost settings on the ABC all the time due to temperature changes. In the morning on the way into work when its 32F out, I get peak boost around 19~20psi. On the way home when it's 40~45F out, I am getting 16~17psi. I can't wait for 2.2b...
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Old 11-01-2002, 03:02 PM   #19
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2.2b helps, but I have mine tuned for 21PSI and last night at ~50 degree's hit 23PSI on Pump gas, whoops.

There are some more things comming in the pipe to help this so I hear.

Shawn
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedRacer-X
Ok, mods are:
VF-34
STI Injectors
255 LPH Fuel Pump
Hacked Air Box
TXS full Exhaust w/Race pipe
M2 Up-Pipe
TXS TMI

Redo your math bro, it's off a bit. And yes, I am putting out less power than TXS has been, thus they are comming here to tune my car and some others. Also, which do YOU think is safer on the motor for those HP levels, non-det C16 or crappy pump. Have you considered that everyone has pretty much switched to winter gas at the pump by now, did you know that can suck up 30HP right there?

There are several things that could be done that will bump those numbers quite a bit higher, as in a set of real plugs instead of the crappy ones I'm running, underdrive pulley, and the header I'm not at liberty to talk about until it's in production.

However, I fully expect to hit ~300HP on Pump at the end of november and who knows on C16, before the header. There is also a big difference in the way I tuned my street map compared to TXS, for one I chose higher boost with less timing. It seems that their approach of more timing and less boost will cure several things, as well as provide more power.

The maps I have posted as well as the dyno charts are for comparison sake, and as a learning experience. Why don't you fork out some cash and do the same, to help us all. It seems so easy to knock someones power outputs, yet where are yours, what are you contributing to this community? I've done over 100 dyno pulls, posted maps and findings and have helped ANYONE who has asked thus far as tuning goes and what I have personally learned.

Just to clarify, I don't post any of this to brag, I post it to share the info. Yes there is much room for improvement, did I say otherwise? Regardless, I look forward to seeing why I am not putting out the power that I should be. I'm gonna do a leakdown sometime next week when I change my plugs just to make sure I'm not missing something.

Shawn
I must have pushed some buttons? Sorry all the bragging about Autocrossing was getting to me .

I actually wasn't intending to knock you, but only compare where you are in regards to the TurboXS stage 4 with unichip. ...but if you insist...

With the stage4 turboXS map they got 268lb/ft tq and 269hp. When you correct your readings -10% for the 1.1tqf you have 278lb/ft of tq and 282hp. So you are making 10 more lb/ft of tq and 13 more hp. I think that's pretty close to what I said before but I was doing math in my head. Granted you can't exactly compare dyno's even if they are the same brand because of difference in air temp, humidity, etc.

It looks like since you are already quite lean in A/F ratios and running quite high on boost (higher than I would think necessary) your advance numbers must be conservative. I would start there by adding some advance and datalogging for detonation. Remember that changing your timing will then probably create a need to readjust fueling to compensate. The C16 will give you a good margin for error.

Regarding me not contributing to the community (you obviously haven't been around here very long since you only joined this month, but...) Read these and I hope you at least somewhat appreciate my existance:

Testing a new turbo:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=261780

Working on timing issues/problems on the stock WRX ecu:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=181253

Using the road dyno to compare varying boost levels with the factory ECU:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...o&pagenumber=2 (halfway down the page.)

Hashing out some problems and mis-understandings with the Link ECU:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=209491

Comparing my unichiped WRX to the stock Link map regarding hp:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=211578

Collecting some of the most technical posts I've found on the boards:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=205968

Baselineing with the deltadash:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=181241

...I'll stop now. That should give you some good reading.

I wish you the best and will remind you that humility around here especially when your new goes a long way If you have TurboXS coming to tune your car your good to go. I want that UTEC, I'm just not sure anyone would buy my link so I can get it with all the negative press

-Jonathan

Last edited by mynew02; 11-01-2002 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 11-01-2002, 06:47 PM   #21
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Jonathan, I have to eat crow now . Hopefully nuff said, my bad, day started crappy and I admit after re-reading that post it came across wrong! Not my intention to bash at all, in anyway. If you don't mind, lets start over.

Ok, on to bigger and better things. Your correct again about the TCF being 1.1 vs 1. I'm looking forward to seeing what Nathan has to say regarding why the car isn't where it should be. I hope it's something stupid and not a compression issue with the engine.

Wasn't trying to brag about Auto-X either, actually I was giving Trey Commander props for basically kicking my ass since he was on street tires compared to my race rubber. That is the way I meant it to come accross. I enjoy the hell out of Auto-Xing, however I am NOT a pro driver by any means. I goto every event I can afford to get too, anywhere within a reasonable distance of Atlanta, for one reason, too learn to be a better driver. Actually two reasons, I've met some of the nicest folks ever at Auto-X's and enjoy the comadery(sp?) that it offers.

Your right, this handle is a month old. DimensionX would be a better one for you to look at as I changed handles this month. You'll find a bit more info if you look under those threads. Regardless, it's hard to read expression over the internet, so take this as an apology for comming across the wrong way.

Shawn
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Old 11-01-2002, 07:15 PM   #22
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No problem.. good luck with the tuning and let us know how it goes.

Regarding your compression test myself and two other guys on the board just did them to our cars so you may find this thread useful:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=267732

I'm car 1. I doubt you'll find any problems with your car unless you've really been abusing it. These motors are so freakin' tough. I really wouldn't run more than 18 or 19 psi under any circumstances if keeping your block in tact long term is your goal. Here's a really cool thread about just how tough these motors are:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=251835

-Jonathan

Last edited by mynew02; 11-01-2002 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 11-05-2002, 02:30 PM   #23
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Question. Why is your boost tapering to ~15.5psi at redline? Did you program the BC to do that, or are you suffering boost drop like a LOT of us?

Do tell.

AVT
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Old 11-05-2002, 02:41 PM   #24
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Default Boost tapering

I can't speak for Speed, but IMO the common tuning philosophy is to taper boost and enrichen the A/F towards redline to account for the Suby's tighter than normal piston to wall clearance. Anyhoo, that'a how mine is tuned....lean is not so mean on these engines
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Old 11-05-2002, 04:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: Boost tapering

Quote:
Originally posted by n2xlr8n
I can't speak for Speed, but IMO the common tuning philosophy is to taper boost and enrichen the A/F towards redline to account for the Suby's tighter than normal piston to wall clearance. Anyhoo, that'a how mine is tuned....lean is not so mean on these engines
I know what some tuners do, but I'm just asking if he actively made it taper, or did the turbo do it by iteself. Ideally you want to hold full boost not taper it.
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