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Old 11-20-2002, 10:18 PM   #1
4a-geWRX
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Default What Hp is too much for the Stock IC???

I haven't been to the dyno yet, but im guessing after I put on the UTEC with the rest of my mods that I will be close to 300 flywheel Hp. I was just curious when I should think about upgrading the IC. Be it front mount or an upgraded top mount, what Hp levels are too much for the factory IC??

-Matt
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:18 PM   #2
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Do a search n00b.

-Mike
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:24 PM   #3
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I always wanted to say that but never had the balls to say it to someone I wasn't related to. I'm glad I got that off my chest. It would be nice to get an answer to this though.

-Mike
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:25 PM   #4
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Ill remember that the next time you want an UpPipe installed, or your car waxed.
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:25 PM   #5
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hah.. that was brutal..
--bobby
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:46 PM   #6
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I don't thing that at a certainam HP level is to much for the stock I/C. It's is more the fact that a bigger I/C should flow better and have less of a pressure drop then the stock unit so your Turbo should not have to work as hard to make the same boost. I also think what you are goind to do with you car, where and how you drive it may also somewhat dictate the need.

I have been running Stage 4 for about 7 months now, so it has seen temps from -10 to 110. I have thought on an off again about getting one but am having a hard time justifying spending a $1000 to $1500 dpending on what I get.

Troy
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:59 PM   #7
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It really has to do with tuning. With careful tuning of advance and fuel your stock IC should be fine for where you're at.

On the flip side, getting a new IC gives you alot more resistance to detonation. There are some top mounts in the 700-800 range. When you think about it, isnt that 700-800 investment worth it once you look at what you get out of it? I believe there are many guys running in the 340-350 flywheel hp range with the stock IC. I was one of them. Unfortunately, my car is in the shop with a rather loud tapping noise coming from the #1 cyl. I will know by Friday what's up. Take that as you will.
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Old 11-20-2002, 11:06 PM   #8
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I don't really think HP will affect the IC... Correct me if I'm wrong... All you'd get by going to a bigger IC is more HP.

What I would do though is get silicone hoses ASAP. Those plastic ones aren't all that great. (plus you get a roughly 5hp boost).

Vostok 7
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Old 11-20-2002, 11:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by roybfr
I don't thing that at a certainam HP level is to much for the stock I/C. It's is more the fact that a bigger I/C should flow better and have less of a pressure drop then the stock unit so your Turbo should not have to work as hard to make the same boost. I also think what you are goind to do with you car, where and how you drive it may also somewhat dictate the need.

Troy
What he said, for the most part.

All a bigger IC does is make it easier on your turbo to make boost.

Vostok 7
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Old 11-21-2002, 12:08 AM   #10
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ALright guys thanks for all your input.

-Matt
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Old 11-21-2002, 12:51 AM   #11
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Haaland, myself, and now silverscooby.... is there a trend here? stock intercooler, 350hp, and blown pistons all. Hmm.. I'm thinking get a better intercooler!
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Old 11-21-2002, 08:12 AM   #12
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a good aftermarket TMIC also allow you to tune a more conservative/safe map?
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Old 11-21-2002, 09:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthChicken
Haaland, myself, and now silverscooby.... is there a trend here? stock intercooler, 350hp, and blown pistons all. Hmm.. I'm thinking get a better intercooler!

Took the liberty of proof reading your post. Here is the new copy ready for print:

"Haaland, myself, and now silverscooby.... is there a trend here? stock FUEL RAILS , 350hp, and blown pistons all. Hmm.. I'm thinking I will get better FUEL RAILS!"

CT
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Old 11-21-2002, 10:02 AM   #14
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That's a good point Clark and I forgot to mention that. I've had some conversations with Shiv and Brett at Visnhu about the stock fuel rails. Basically, they have told me that the stock fuel rails have a tendancy to lean out (especially on #3 cylinder) when running higher boost, even on the stock turbo.

Who knows what caused my problems? Was it poor intercooling? Was is bad fueling due to the fuel rails (I have a walbro pump and sti injectors)? Was it a bad injector? Was it that my motor was built on a Friday and not a Tuesday?

Fuel rails cost a little over 400.00. If I had to do it over again I would have gotten those when I did my other fuel mods.
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Old 11-21-2002, 03:02 PM   #15
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I would put the upgraded fuel rails higher up then a bigger I/C, it is pretty nuts how much better the aftermakets ones are then the stock set up.

cloakscott IIRC a bigger I/C on the same map as a stock TMIC will run a little leaner according to Mark/Nate at TurboXS. This goes back to what I said above. The thing is that the turbo will work less at the same boost and the bigger I/C will do a better job of cooling so in the end you should be able to run a more aggressive map with the bigger I/C and still be relativly safe.

I do have to agree that with silverscooby that in the end @ $700-$1000 for a big TMIC it is worth it if it keeps you from having motor problems.

Troy
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Old 11-21-2002, 03:12 PM   #16
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Yeah, the fueling needs to be changed as well... I have the Perrin rails on my car now as well, as does Haaland. As well as water injection, and running toluene - we're just a BIT paranoid now
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Old 11-21-2002, 03:46 PM   #17
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I am curious as to what damage was found, ringlands?

Troy
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Old 11-21-2002, 04:54 PM   #18
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Yes, ring landings broken/melted away. Almost identical damage, along the skirted side of the piston.
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Old 11-21-2002, 06:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthChicken
Yes, ring landings broken/melted away. Almost identical damage, along the skirted side of the piston.

Do yall have EGT gauges? When my car was stock I did rails and an Greddy EGT gauge with the Probe right at the manifold on that side of the motor. It has saved me many, many times over... I see 900C I let off and find the problem...

CT
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Old 11-21-2002, 06:41 PM   #20
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of course! Done at the same time I got uppipe put in, which was over a year ago.

For Haaland and I, it was most definitely running that level of power, and multiple track days at PIR (not quarter mile, but full track). WOT for 12 seconds is one thing - WOT for 12 minutes is something else entirely. It requires a slightly different approach obviously.
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Old 11-21-2002, 06:49 PM   #21
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As a general rule, the stock IC will handle Stage 1 power levels or aproximately 280hp. If you plan to make more tnan 300hp (this is flywheel hp) then u may wanna upgrade ur IC. From 281 to 340 an upgraded TMIC is recommended. And from 340 onwards you will need a FMIC.
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Old 11-21-2002, 06:52 PM   #22
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Calling people 'n00b's is an utter waste of time, whopee I myself am new here so maybe I shouldnt be talking, but its all a bunch of crap, way to embrace others and add to their interest in a particular thing, everyone was new once...just because you're a seasoned clubber doesn't give u the right to treat others like crap...SO what if he didn't search before posting, every has done it at one time or another..thats how things go, grow up.
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Old 11-21-2002, 06:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthChicken
of course! Done at the same time I got uppipe put in, which was over a year ago.

For Haaland and I, it was most definitely running that level of power, and multiple track days at PIR (not quarter mile, but full track). WOT for 12 seconds is one thing - WOT for 12 minutes is something else entirely. It requires a slightly different approach obviously.

My car is setup for road racing and has been through about half a dozen track events including 40 minute enduro's running WOT all while making big power. Its unfortunate that your poor state of tune toasted your motor.

Zacek: I disagree on your rule of thumb. Lets remember that people will benifit from an IC upgrade the most of they are runnning a turbo past its design limits. This creates heat, the upgraded IC removes more of that heat and more power is made. I took the stock IC into the 11's. Its not a bad unit. When very high 16+ psi boost levels are run an IC is needed more and will make more of a difference. I now run an STI top mount IC that is more then doing the job at 18 psi making 450hp+. Lets all keep in mind that the "HP limit" of an IC would be the flow capabilities of the IC and not the cooling effect or Size.

CT
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Old 11-21-2002, 08:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhiteLightning
Calling people 'n00b's is an utter waste of time, whopee I myself am new here so maybe I shouldnt be talking, but its all a bunch of crap, way to embrace others and add to their interest in a particular thing, everyone was new once...just because you're a seasoned clubber doesn't give u the right to treat others like crap...SO what if he didn't search before posting, every has done it at one time or another..thats how things go, grow up.
They know each other. Notice their locations? Notice that the person who was called a n00b responded with his own retort and a grin?
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Old 11-22-2002, 05:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by WhiteLightning Calling people 'n00b's is an utter waste of time, whopee I myself am new here so maybe I shouldnt be talking, but its all a bunch of crap, way to embrace others and add to their interest in a particular thing, everyone was new once...just because you're a seasoned clubber doesn't give u the right to treat others like crap...SO what if he didn't search before posting, every has done it at one time or another..thats how things go, grow up.
Yea whitelightning hes just fooling around. Thats my brother. We are actually talking about the same car. I am his mechanic. He let me drive occasionally too . Guys thanks again for all the help. I think my bro and i should upgrade both the fuel rails and the IC.

Matt
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