What Hp is too much for the Stock IC???

4a-geWRX · 11-20-2002, 10:18 PM

I haven't been to the dyno yet, but im guessing after I put on the UTEC with the rest of my mods that I will be close to 300 flywheel Hp. I was just curious when I should think about upgrading the IC. Be it front mount or an upgraded top mount, what Hp levels are too much for the factory IC??

-Matt

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mcv9802 · 11-20-2002, 10:18 PM

Do a search n00b.

-Mike

mcv9802 · 11-20-2002, 10:24 PM

I always wanted to say that but never had the balls to say it to someone I wasn't related to. I'm glad I got that off my chest. It would be nice to get an answer to this though.

-Mike

4a-geWRX · 11-20-2002, 10:25 PM

Ill remember that the next time you want an UpPipe installed, or your car waxed.

BobbyD · 11-20-2002, 10:25 PM

hah.. that was brutal..
--bobby

roybfr · 11-20-2002, 10:46 PM

I don't thing that at a certainam HP level is to much for the stock I/C. It's is more the fact that a bigger I/C should flow better and have less of a pressure drop then the stock unit so your Turbo should not have to work as hard to make the same boost. I also think what you are goind to do with you car, where and how you drive it may also somewhat dictate the need.

I have been running Stage 4 for about 7 months now, so it has seen temps from -10 to 110. I have thought on an off again about getting one but am having a hard time justifying spending a $1000 to $1500 dpending on what I get.

Troy

silverscooby · 11-20-2002, 10:59 PM

It really has to do with tuning. With careful tuning of advance and fuel your stock IC should be fine for where you're at.

On the flip side, getting a new IC gives you alot more resistance to detonation. There are some top mounts in the 700-800 range. When you think about it, isnt that 700-800 investment worth it once you look at what you get out of it? I believe there are many guys running in the 340-350 flywheel hp range with the stock IC. I was one of them. Unfortunately, my car is in the shop with a rather loud tapping noise coming from the #1 cyl. I will know by Friday what's up. Take that as you will.

Vostok 7 · 11-20-2002, 11:06 PM

I don't really think HP will affect the IC... Correct me if I'm wrong... All you'd get by going to a bigger IC is more HP.

What I would do though is get silicone hoses ASAP. Those plastic ones aren't all that great. (plus you get a roughly 5hp boost).

Vostok 7

Vostok 7 · 11-20-2002, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by roybfr
I don't thing that at a certainam HP level is to much for the stock I/C. It's is more the fact that a bigger I/C should flow better and have less of a pressure drop then the stock unit so your Turbo should not have to work as hard to make the same boost. I also think what you are goind to do with you car, where and how you drive it may also somewhat dictate the need.

Troy

What he said, for the most part.

All a bigger IC does is make it easier on your turbo to make boost.

Vostok 7

4a-geWRX · 11-21-2002, 12:08 AM

ALright guys thanks for all your input.

-Matt

DarthChicken · 11-21-2002, 12:51 AM

Haaland, myself, and now silverscooby.... is there a trend here? stock intercooler, 350hp, and blown pistons all. Hmm.. I'm thinking get a better intercooler!

cloakscott · 11-21-2002, 08:12 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a good aftermarket TMIC also allow you to tune a more conservative/safe map?

AZScoobie · 11-21-2002, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarthChicken
Haaland, myself, and now silverscooby.... is there a trend here? stock intercooler, 350hp, and blown pistons all. Hmm.. I'm thinking get a better intercooler!

Took the liberty of proof reading your post. Here is the new copy ready for print:

"Haaland, myself, and now silverscooby.... is there a trend here? stock FUEL RAILS , 350hp, and blown pistons all. Hmm.. I'm thinking I will get better FUEL RAILS!"

CT

silverscooby · 11-21-2002, 10:02 AM

That's a good point Clark and I forgot to mention that. I've had some conversations with Shiv and Brett at Visnhu about the stock fuel rails. Basically, they have told me that the stock fuel rails have a tendancy to lean out (especially on #3 cylinder) when running higher boost, even on the stock turbo.

Who knows what caused my problems? Was it poor intercooling? Was is bad fueling due to the fuel rails (I have a walbro pump and sti injectors)? Was it a bad injector? Was it that my motor was built on a Friday and not a Tuesday?

Fuel rails cost a little over 400.00. If I had to do it over again I would have gotten those when I did my other fuel mods.

roybfr · 11-21-2002, 03:02 PM

I would put the upgraded fuel rails higher up then a bigger I/C, it is pretty nuts how much better the aftermakets ones are then the stock set up.

cloakscott IIRC a bigger I/C on the same map as a stock TMIC will run a little leaner according to Mark/Nate at TurboXS. This goes back to what I said above. The thing is that the turbo will work less at the same boost and the bigger I/C will do a better job of cooling so in the end you should be able to run a more aggressive map with the bigger I/C and still be relativly safe.

I do have to agree that with silverscooby that in the end @ $700-$1000 for a big TMIC it is worth it if it keeps you from having motor problems.

Troy

DarthChicken · 11-21-2002, 03:12 PM

Yeah, the fueling needs to be changed as well... I have the Perrin rails on my car now as well, as does Haaland. As well as water injection, and running toluene - we're just a BIT paranoid now

roybfr · 11-21-2002, 03:46 PM

I am curious as to what damage was found, ringlands?

Troy

DarthChicken · 11-21-2002, 04:54 PM

Yes, ring landings broken/melted away. Almost identical damage, along the skirted side of the piston.

AZScoobie · 11-21-2002, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarthChicken
Yes, ring landings broken/melted away. Almost identical damage, along the skirted side of the piston.

Do yall have EGT gauges? When my car was stock I did rails and an Greddy EGT gauge with the Probe right at the manifold on that side of the motor. It has saved me many, many times over... I see 900C I let off and find the problem...

CT

DarthChicken · 11-21-2002, 06:41 PM

of course! Done at the same time I got uppipe put in, which was over a year ago.

For Haaland and I, it was most definitely running that level of power, and multiple track days at PIR (not quarter mile, but full track). WOT for 12 seconds is one thing - WOT for 12 minutes is something else entirely. It requires a slightly different approach obviously.

zacek · 11-21-2002, 06:49 PM

As a general rule, the stock IC will handle Stage 1 power levels or aproximately 280hp. If you plan to make more tnan 300hp (this is flywheel hp) then u may wanna upgrade ur IC. From 281 to 340 an upgraded TMIC is recommended. And from 340 onwards you will need a FMIC.

WhiteLightning · 11-21-2002, 06:52 PM

Calling people 'n00b's is an utter waste of time, whopee I myself am new here so maybe I shouldnt be talking, but its all a bunch of crap, way to embrace others and add to their interest in a particular thing, everyone was new once...just because you're a seasoned clubber doesn't give u the right to treat others like crap...SO what if he didn't search before posting, every has done it at one time or another..thats how things go, grow up.

AZScoobie · 11-21-2002, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarthChicken
of course! Done at the same time I got uppipe put in, which was over a year ago.

For Haaland and I, it was most definitely running that level of power, and multiple track days at PIR (not quarter mile, but full track). WOT for 12 seconds is one thing - WOT for 12 minutes is something else entirely. It requires a slightly different approach obviously.

My car is setup for road racing and has been through about half a dozen track events including 40 minute enduro's running WOT all while making big power. Its unfortunate that your poor state of tune toasted your motor.

Zacek: I disagree on your rule of thumb. Lets remember that people will benifit from an IC upgrade the most of they are runnning a turbo past its design limits. This creates heat, the upgraded IC removes more of that heat and more power is made. I took the stock IC into the 11's. Its not a bad unit. When very high 16+ psi boost levels are run an IC is needed more and will make more of a difference. I now run an STI top mount IC that is more then doing the job at 18 psi making 450hp+. Lets all keep in mind that the "HP limit" of an IC would be the flow capabilities of the IC and not the cooling effect or Size.

CT

jblaine · 11-21-2002, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WhiteLightning
Calling people 'n00b's is an utter waste of time, whopee I myself am new here so maybe I shouldnt be talking, but its all a bunch of crap, way to embrace others and add to their interest in a particular thing, everyone was new once...just because you're a seasoned clubber doesn't give u the right to treat others like crap...SO what if he didn't search before posting, every has done it at one time or another..thats how things go, grow up.

They know each other. Notice their locations? Notice that the person who was called a n00b responded with his own retort and a grin?

4a-geWRX · 11-22-2002, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WhiteLightning Calling people 'n00b's is an utter waste of time, whopee I myself am new here so maybe I shouldnt be talking, but its all a bunch of crap, way to embrace others and add to their interest in a particular thing, everyone was new once...just because you're a seasoned clubber doesn't give u the right to treat others like crap...SO what if he didn't search before posting, every has done it at one time or another..thats how things go, grow up.

Yea whitelightning hes just fooling around. Thats my brother. We are actually talking about the same car. I am his mechanic. He let me drive occasionally too

. Guys thanks again for all the help. I think my bro and i should upgrade both the fuel rails and the IC.

Matt

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11-20-2002, 10:18 PM	#1
4a-geWRX Scooby Newbie Member#: 28851 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poolesville, Md Vehicle: 2002 WRX Sedona Red	What Hp is too much for the Stock IC??? I haven't been to the dyno yet, but im guessing after I put on the UTEC with the rest of my mods that I will be close to 300 flywheel Hp. I was just curious when I should think about upgrading the IC. Be it front mount or an upgraded top mount, what Hp levels are too much for the factory IC?? -Matt * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

11-20-2002, 10:18 PM	#2
mcv9802 Scooby Newbie Member#: 6597 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Montgomery Village, MD, US Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Sedona Red Pearl	Do a search n00b. -Mike

11-20-2002, 10:24 PM	#3
mcv9802 Scooby Newbie Member#: 6597 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Montgomery Village, MD, US Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Sedona Red Pearl	I always wanted to say that but never had the balls to say it to someone I wasn't related to. I'm glad I got that off my chest. It would be nice to get an answer to this though. -Mike

11-20-2002, 10:25 PM	#4
4a-geWRX Scooby Newbie Member#: 28851 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poolesville, Md Vehicle: 2002 WRX Sedona Red	Ill remember that the next time you want an UpPipe installed, or your car waxed.

11-20-2002, 10:25 PM	#5
BobbyD Scooby Newbie Member#: 27262 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Yay Area, CA Vehicle: 02 WRX WRB	hah.. that was brutal.. --bobby

11-20-2002, 10:46 PM	#6
roybfr Scooby Specialist Member#: 14456 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: WDM Iowa Vehicle: 09 BMW 335i Sedan 69/72/01 Corvettes	I don't thing that at a certainam HP level is to much for the stock I/C. It's is more the fact that a bigger I/C should flow better and have less of a pressure drop then the stock unit so your Turbo should not have to work as hard to make the same boost. I also think what you are goind to do with you car, where and how you drive it may also somewhat dictate the need. I have been running Stage 4 for about 7 months now, so it has seen temps from -10 to 110. I have thought on an off again about getting one but am having a hard time justifying spending a $1000 to $1500 dpending on what I get. Troy

11-20-2002, 10:59 PM	#7
silverscooby Scooby Specialist Member#: 15060 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NC	It really has to do with tuning. With careful tuning of advance and fuel your stock IC should be fine for where you're at. On the flip side, getting a new IC gives you alot more resistance to detonation. There are some top mounts in the 700-800 range. When you think about it, isnt that 700-800 investment worth it once you look at what you get out of it? I believe there are many guys running in the 340-350 flywheel hp range with the stock IC. I was one of them. Unfortunately, my car is in the shop with a rather loud tapping noise coming from the #1 cyl. I will know by Friday what's up. Take that as you will.

11-20-2002, 11:06 PM	#8
Vostok 7 NASIOC Supporter Member#: 30209 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: I was a RX7 now. Vehicle: Now I understand what this is a formidable	I don't really think HP will affect the IC... Correct me if I'm wrong... All you'd get by going to a bigger IC is more HP. What I would do though is get silicone hoses ASAP. Those plastic ones aren't all that great. (plus you get a roughly 5hp boost). Vostok 7

11-21-2002, 12:08 AM	#10
4a-geWRX Scooby Newbie Member#: 28851 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poolesville, Md Vehicle: 2002 WRX Sedona Red	ALright guys thanks for all your input. -Matt

11-21-2002, 12:51 AM	#11
DarthChicken Scooby Specialist Member#: 9073 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Hillsboro, OR. Vehicle: 2006 ariel atom wrb/bbs gold frame	Haaland, myself, and now silverscooby.... is there a trend here? stock intercooler, 350hp, and blown pistons all. Hmm.. I'm thinking get a better intercooler!

11-21-2002, 08:12 AM	#12
cloakscott Scooby Newbie Member#: 14153 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Illinois Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX WR Blue Pearl	Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a good aftermarket TMIC also allow you to tune a more conservative/safe map?

11-21-2002, 10:02 AM	#14
silverscooby Scooby Specialist Member#: 15060 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NC	That's a good point Clark and I forgot to mention that. I've had some conversations with Shiv and Brett at Visnhu about the stock fuel rails. Basically, they have told me that the stock fuel rails have a tendancy to lean out (especially on #3 cylinder) when running higher boost, even on the stock turbo. Who knows what caused my problems? Was it poor intercooling? Was is bad fueling due to the fuel rails (I have a walbro pump and sti injectors)? Was it a bad injector? Was it that my motor was built on a Friday and not a Tuesday? Fuel rails cost a little over 400.00. If I had to do it over again I would have gotten those when I did my other fuel mods.

11-21-2002, 03:02 PM	#15
roybfr Scooby Specialist Member#: 14456 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: WDM Iowa Vehicle: 09 BMW 335i Sedan 69/72/01 Corvettes	I would put the upgraded fuel rails higher up then a bigger I/C, it is pretty nuts how much better the aftermakets ones are then the stock set up. cloakscott IIRC a bigger I/C on the same map as a stock TMIC will run a little leaner according to Mark/Nate at TurboXS. This goes back to what I said above. The thing is that the turbo will work less at the same boost and the bigger I/C will do a better job of cooling so in the end you should be able to run a more aggressive map with the bigger I/C and still be relativly safe. I do have to agree that with silverscooby that in the end @ $700-$1000 for a big TMIC it is worth it if it keeps you from having motor problems. Troy

11-21-2002, 03:12 PM	#16
DarthChicken Scooby Specialist Member#: 9073 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Hillsboro, OR. Vehicle: 2006 ariel atom wrb/bbs gold frame	Yeah, the fueling needs to be changed as well... I have the Perrin rails on my car now as well, as does Haaland. As well as water injection, and running toluene - we're just a BIT paranoid now

11-21-2002, 03:46 PM	#17
roybfr Scooby Specialist Member#: 14456 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: WDM Iowa Vehicle: 09 BMW 335i Sedan 69/72/01 Corvettes	I am curious as to what damage was found, ringlands? Troy

11-21-2002, 04:54 PM	#18
DarthChicken Scooby Specialist Member#: 9073 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Hillsboro, OR. Vehicle: 2006 ariel atom wrb/bbs gold frame	Yes, ring landings broken/melted away. Almost identical damage, along the skirted side of the piston.

11-21-2002, 06:41 PM	#20
DarthChicken Scooby Specialist Member#: 9073 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Hillsboro, OR. Vehicle: 2006 ariel atom wrb/bbs gold frame	of course! Done at the same time I got uppipe put in, which was over a year ago. For Haaland and I, it was most definitely running that level of power, and multiple track days at PIR (not quarter mile, but full track). WOT for 12 seconds is one thing - WOT for 12 minutes is something else entirely. It requires a slightly different approach obviously.

11-21-2002, 06:49 PM	#21
zacek Scooby Specialist Member#: 19467 Join Date: May 2002 Location: Chatsworth, CA. Vehicle: 02 WRX WR Blue	As a general rule, the stock IC will handle Stage 1 power levels or aproximately 280hp. If you plan to make more tnan 300hp (this is flywheel hp) then u may wanna upgrade ur IC. From 281 to 340 an upgraded TMIC is recommended. And from 340 onwards you will need a FMIC.

11-21-2002, 06:52 PM	#22
WhiteLightning Scooby Newbie Member#: 21763 Join Date: Jul 2002 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Issaquah, Washington Vehicle: 2005 MiniCooperS&D2 truck/car Dark Silver	Calling people 'n00b's is an utter waste of time, whopee I myself am new here so maybe I shouldnt be talking, but its all a bunch of crap, way to embrace others and add to their interest in a particular thing, everyone was new once...just because you're a seasoned clubber doesn't give u the right to treat others like crap...SO what if he didn't search before posting, every has done it at one time or another..thats how things go, grow up.