Toe out in rear to reduce push?

Ultralight · 11-25-2002, 04:40 PM

Our Miata rarely pushed but once when I installed a very soft rear bar it did push so I dialed in some toe out in the rear. The toe out made high speed braking something to fear as it got very squirely but it sure improved rotation. Needless to say I quickly replaced the soft bar and went back to slight rear toe in. How does the WRX respond to rear toe out?

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

ConeMasher · 11-25-2002, 06:09 PM

It responds very well to toe out.

Last season:
Front: 0 toe (per side)
Rear: 1/16" out (per side)

Hindsight being 20/20, I feel this was too conservative.

Next season (to start with):
Front: 1/16" out (per side)
Rear: 1/8" out (per side)

I'll probably adjust during the season, but this seems to be a good initial value (for Koni SAs, 24mm adjustable front sway, 225 Kumho).

Apparently Larry Fine was up to 1/4" toe out in the rear (per side)!!!!

Disclaimer:
Obviously a VERY aggressive alignment should be for autocross use only. Don't drive with extreme toe out on the street, or you might kill yourself.

-- Gary

adhowe70 · 11-25-2002, 07:26 PM

If you plan on running in SCCA Stock class, rear toe out is the ONLY way to get the car to rotate, especially on grippy R-compound tires.

I recommend at LEAST 1/4" for autocrossing in concrete and 0 to 3/8" on tarmac.

Andrew Howe
GS class 2.5RS

Xio · 11-25-2002, 09:37 PM

I run 0.10 degrees toe out front and 0.05 degrees toe out rear, all the time. I have no idea what this equates to in inches...it's probably very small though.
The car pushed just a tad too much with just camber adjustment so I used toe to liven up the handling a bit. When I did it I had no idea how it would turn out, so I decided to be conservative on the toe values. Absolutely zero tire wear issues.

zoomfactor · 11-25-2002, 10:55 PM

With those alignment settings do you guys trailer your cars to events?

ANZAC_1915 · 11-26-2002, 09:45 AM

I personally found 1/16 was the perfect balance, and 1/8 toe out made it "too loose" but it also depends on your suspension and tire choice.

Glenn

trhoppe · 11-26-2002, 09:49 AM

I used to do the rear toe when I got to the event. Its very easy. Just mark what stock is, and then CRANK it all the way. If its too loose. Crank it back a bit

I ended up running about 1/4" toe out in the rear during the season. For the last event of the year (after nationals dammit) I tried running almost 1/2" per side (as much as you can get) and LOVED the way the car felt.

Might even be able to get away with a 26mm front bar with that toe out.

-Tom

TyrannoSullyRex · 11-26-2002, 10:52 AM

I ran 1/8" total all the way around and I'm going to experiment with more this year with the addition of a front sway.

Draken · 11-26-2002, 02:53 PM

I've run anywhere from 1/8-inch to 1/2-inch total toe-out in the rear this year. Very much course dependent. Like Tom said, I just change mine at the events.

Chris H.
www.subrew.com

11-25-2002, 04:40 PM	#1
Ultralight Scooby Newbie Member#: 29366 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Reno, Nevada Vehicle: 1990 Miata white & 2003 sonic yellow	Toe out in rear to reduce push? Our Miata rarely pushed but once when I installed a very soft rear bar it did push so I dialed in some toe out in the rear. The toe out made high speed braking something to fear as it got very squirely but it sure improved rotation. Needless to say I quickly replaced the soft bar and went back to slight rear toe in. How does the WRX respond to rear toe out? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Does toe out reduce grip? Please explain its purpose.	rex n effect	Motorsports	24	05-03-2004 12:10 PM
Does toe out in the rear reduce overall grip?	rex n effect	Brakes, Steering & Suspension	4	04-30-2004 09:07 PM
If I add negative camber to the front, will I end up with toe in or toe out?	Impreza Rider	Brakes, Steering & Suspension	11	03-20-2004 10:53 AM
Changing Camber, does what to toe out/in ?	makofoto	Brakes, Steering & Suspension	14	02-25-2004 02:22 AM
to toe out or not to toe out	TheWRX	Brakes, Steering & Suspension	6	05-03-2002 11:42 AM

11-25-2002, 06:09 PM	#2
ConeMasher Scooby Specialist Member#: 2135 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA Vehicle: 2002 WRX Silver	It responds very well to toe out. Last season: Front: 0 toe (per side) Rear: 1/16" out (per side) Hindsight being 20/20, I feel this was too conservative. Next season (to start with): Front: 1/16" out (per side) Rear: 1/8" out (per side) I'll probably adjust during the season, but this seems to be a good initial value (for Koni SAs, 24mm adjustable front sway, 225 Kumho). Apparently Larry Fine was up to 1/4" toe out in the rear (per side)!!!! Disclaimer: Obviously a VERY aggressive alignment should be for autocross use only. Don't drive with extreme toe out on the street, or you might kill yourself. -- Gary

11-25-2002, 07:26 PM	#3
adhowe70 Scooby Specialist Member#: 3363 Join Date: Dec 2000 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Salem, Oregon Vehicle: 1982 Reynard Blue, Red, and White	If you plan on running in SCCA Stock class, rear toe out is the ONLY way to get the car to rotate, especially on grippy R-compound tires. I recommend at LEAST 1/4" for autocrossing in concrete and 0 to 3/8" on tarmac. Andrew Howe GS class 2.5RS

11-25-2002, 09:37 PM	#4
Xio Scooby Specialist Member#: 3805 Join Date: Jan 2001 Chapter/Region: International Location: Paris, FR / Houston, TX Vehicle: 2011 STi Sedan SWP 2011 Outback ABP	I run 0.10 degrees toe out front and 0.05 degrees toe out rear, all the time. I have no idea what this equates to in inches...it's probably very small though. The car pushed just a tad too much with just camber adjustment so I used toe to liven up the handling a bit. When I did it I had no idea how it would turn out, so I decided to be conservative on the toe values. Absolutely zero tire wear issues.

11-25-2002, 10:55 PM	#5
zoomfactor Scooby Specialist Member#: 30440 Join Date: Nov 2002 Chapter/Region: South East Location: slave to self-employment Vehicle: 03 WRX WR Blue	With those alignment settings do you guys trailer your cars to events?

11-26-2002, 09:45 AM	#6
ANZAC_1915 Moderator Member#: 456 Join Date: Oct 1999 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Redmond, WA, USA Vehicle: 2008 Forester XT Steel Gray Metallic	I personally found 1/16 was the perfect balance, and 1/8 toe out made it "too loose" but it also depends on your suspension and tire choice. Glenn

11-26-2002, 09:49 AM	#7
trhoppe Scooby Guru Member#: 7492 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Hotlanta, GA Vehicle: No race cars www.tomhoppe.com	I used to do the rear toe when I got to the event. Its very easy. Just mark what stock is, and then CRANK it all the way. If its too loose. Crank it back a bit I ended up running about 1/4" toe out in the rear during the season. For the last event of the year (after nationals dammit) I tried running almost 1/2" per side (as much as you can get) and LOVED the way the car felt. Might even be able to get away with a 26mm front bar with that toe out. -Tom

11-26-2002, 10:52 AM	#8
TyrannoSullyRex Scooby Guru Member#: 8891 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: International Location: Houston, TX Vehicle: 2002 WRX Silver '02 SV650	I ran 1/8" total all the way around and I'm going to experiment with more this year with the addition of a front sway.

11-26-2002, 02:53 PM	#9
Draken NASIOC Supporter Member#: 16 Join Date: Jun 1999 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Chico, CA Vehicle: 1964 Autodynamics Formula Vee	I've run anywhere from 1/8-inch to 1/2-inch total toe-out in the rear this year. Very much course dependent. Like Tom said, I just change mine at the events. Chris H. www.subrew.com